Date   

Re: Boxcar identification help requested

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Bruce, Elden, Group members,
 
Maybe it is a rebuild of this singleton car:
 
B50 baggage express car #10001, American Railway Express
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 12:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested
 
Elden, Folks
 
Brian Carlson pointed out photos of this car at the Hagley site.  It is a “Calcium Carbide” car…. Not that this sheds any light on the origin of the car…
 
Now the puzzle is complicated by the question what would PRR MOW forces have used a car, likely loaded with sacks of Calcium Carbonate for?

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith           

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
 

On May 15, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
 
Bruce;

I have been thinking about this since the Meet (thanks for sharing them!), and I had a few thoughts:

The sides have distinct flavor of X29, with post rivets of closer and wider spacing, not a single rivet row, and 4/4 sides;

The IH is also similarly low;

The shallow X29-like side sill with no substantial evidence of cross-bearers either under the door frame or closer to the trucks;

The roof appears to be a lap-seam design, with fairly narrow spacing, but distinct raises where the seam is, possible to minimize water entry.  No standing seam caps.  Has no look of a commercial roof, more like a home-built job;

The use of Crown trucks, which were common on the PRR;

The "plate" end, with X29/X31-ish stamped poling pockets;

The use of a narrow end walkway and cabin car-like hand grab;

The side door looking like an express or baggage car door.  And with windows in one end only.

This looks to me to be a kind of one-off PRR-built WW2 expedient special purpose car that ran in a wreck train/emergency train.  Like maybe responses to WW 2 emergencies along the ROW.

I hope we find the correspondence some time.  If those inept German saboteurs had done something big, we might've seen this car on the "curve"!

Thanks again for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:28 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested

Folks,



I found the attached photos of PRR 495655 at Bob's Photos at the 50th anniversary PRRT&HS meeting this weekend.  The photos pose a real conundrum as to the origin of the boxcar(?) depicted.  Here are the facts as I see them

1) The photo is dated 1/43 and appears to document a new MOW conversion, given the gray paint with black lettering and lack of any of the stencils needed for interchange.

2) The car has a straight center sill, AB brakes, and andrews trucks

3) The roof appears to be a new add-on and seriously overhangs the sides​. Any suggestions as to the roof type are welcome

4) There is no running board or ladders to reach the roof of the car.

5) There is no end sill. 

6) There appears to be a steam line visible on the end of the car.

7) The car has end doors, end grab irons, and a side "express" style door

8) The car is steel with 4 sheets to each side of the door.

Given the andrews truck, I thought X26 rebuild, but the underframe is not a USRA underframe. The sides do not resemble either the X25 or X29 series of cars. Given the steam line, this car may have previously been in express service (and the side and/or end doors may be a remnant of that, or may be new to the conversion).

So, bottom line? This does not appear to be a modification of any PRR boxcar class as far as I can tell.  In discussions this weekend, we postulated that it could be a wreck write off from another road, or possibly, a "scratchbuilt" box from available components. Can anyone out there identify the car that was used for this MOW conversion?

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

rwitt_2000
 

I can't contribute much more than what has been discussed, but I do note the car also has a bracket for a rear marker. It seems to be equipped for passenger service, but why.

Could the Hagley site have the caption wrong?

Bob Witt


Calcuim carbide car?

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Um, why would a car designed to haul something that is very dangerous when wet have _windows_?


Scott Chatfield


GN 40' Truss Rod Boxcars

Schleigh Mike
 

The Great Northern bought nearly 20,000 40 foot, DS boxcars starting in 1901.  Various versions have been modeled in various media and scales by various companies.  Were general arrangement drawings ever published or otherwise available for these cars 'as built' with a wood or steel underframe?  I am aware of hand have the Mainline Modeler October 1981 drawing.  Something a bit more technically detailed is desired.

Thanking in advance----Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I remember my dad talking about "Carbide lamps."
Long ago enough that I can't recall the context or
what kind of lamps, but the miner's lamps seems
right. Still, boxcar loads of that for worker's
lamps?

Were lanterns EVER made that used carbide?

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
<main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of
staplindave via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 6:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification
help requested

Before portable electric light plants and
generators, I believe they used calcium carbide to
provide lighting at derailments.

Dave Staplin


Re: Athearn blue box gon

Tim O'Connor
 


Awesome, thanks! I didn't know Trainlife had come back to life! For a long time
it seemed to be unavailable...

Tim O'



Only the November-December 1982 Prototype Modeler is available on Trainlife at this time.
http://magazine.trainlife.com/ptm_1982_11/
 
The article begins on page 12.
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

Ben Hom wrote:
 
This kitbash was inspired by one written up by Richard Hendrickson in Prototype Modeler - I'm having issues with the Model Train Magazine Index on my work computer, but IIRC Richard wrote up other conversions using this model in Prototype Modeler.
 
     Two very nice articles, creating a whole bunch of interesting gondolas. They were in the September-October and the November-December issues of PM in 1982. I built a couple of them myself.
 
Tony Thompson


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

lars svanevik
 

Group,


Calcium carbide is the substance for making acetylene.  Water plus calcium carbide yields acetylene.  Acetylene is unstable in high pressure oxygen and, therefore, containers of calcium carbide may be transported without fear of explosion.     


Lars.


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 1:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested
 
On 5/15/2018 1:08 PM, David Soderblom wrote:
 I very much doubt that calcium carbide output would be used for welding: just too slow, difficult to regulate

    When I was in Korea around 69/70 they had small containers? that used it for just that, welding.  Saw lots of them.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

staplindave
 

Before portable electric light plants and generators, I believe they used calcium carbide to provide lighting at derailments.

Dave Staplin


Re: Ath blue box gon

Tim O'Connor
 


To add to what others said - that PARTICULAR PM prototype gondola number belonged
to a 52'6" drop end gondola built by Greenville in 1944, i.e. the Proto 2000 gondola.
Someone mentioned the DT&I gondola: a drop-end car, and a straightforward kitbash
from the Proto gondola kit.

Tim O'Connor



An OLD friend heard I was into US prototype trains and decided to give me an Ath blue box 50' gon lettered for Pere Marquette. Is this a car that represents a certain prototype and can be turned into something prototypical by yours truly or is it a candidate for the lower shelves of my closet? I haven't got a clue, hope you can help.
Thanks.
Fred Jansz


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

lars svanevik
 





From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 1:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested
 
On 5/15/2018 1:08 PM, David Soderblom wrote:
 I very much doubt that calcium carbide output would be used for welding: just too slow, difficult to regulate

    When I was in Korea around 69/70 they had small containers? that used it for just that, welding.  Saw lots of them.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: only 3 side ladders on ACF double dome tank?

vapeurchapelon
 

Many thanks Al! Rather than building another one it now seems that I have to remove a ladder :-)
 
Thanks again and best regards
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Montag, 14. Mai 2018 um 22:57 Uhr
Von: al_brown03 <abrown@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] only 3 side ladders on ACF double dome tank?
From Ed Hawkins's article in RP CYC 10, pp 76-105, on multi-compartment ACF Type 27 tank cars: twin-compartment tanks typically had two ladders, either centered on the car directly opposite each other, or diagonally opposite (one even with each dome). It would be highly unusual for a twin-compartment car to have three ladders, not to say some oddity didn't.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Paint color for inside model stock cars

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Cars were lime-washed between trips in early years to disinfect them, but this was banned (sometime between the wars I believe) as it injured the animals. 


In later years they were washed out; after a few cleanings there was precious little paint left (if there had been any in the first place) so you ended up with a general impression of a patchy warm grey,  darker when freshly washed, lighter when it had had a chance to dry out. 


Aidrian

  


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of spsalso via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik@...>
Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2018 9:11 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars
 
The models I am going to paint are currently unfinished brass.  Unlike with grey resin, I think it extremely risky to ignore painting the interior.  I am leaning towards a tan-ish light grey, though I had also considered flat black. 


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Athearn blue box gon

Eric Hansmann
 

Only the November-December 1982 Prototype Modeler is available on Trainlife at this time.

http://magazine.trainlife.com/ptm_1982_11/

 

 

The article begins on page 12.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 4:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Athearn blue box gon

 

Ben Hom wrote:

 

This kitbash was inspired by one written up by Richard Hendrickson in Prototype Modeler - I'm having issues with the Model Train Magazine Index on my work computer, but IIRC Richard wrote up other conversions using this model in Prototype Modeler.

 

     Two very nice articles, creating a whole bunch of interesting gondolas. They were in the September-October and the November-December issues of PM in 1982. I built a couple of them myself.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: Athearn blue box gon

Tony Thompson
 

Ben Hom wrote:

This kitbash was inspired by one written up by Richard Hendrickson in Prototype Modeler - I'm having issues with the Model Train Magazine Index on my work computer, but IIRC Richard wrote up other conversions using this model in Prototype Modeler.

     Two very nice articles, creating a whole bunch of interesting gondolas. They were in the September-October and the November-December issues of PM in 1982. I built a couple of them myself.

Tony Thompson




Re: Boxcar identification help requested

Jon Miller
 

On 5/15/2018 1:08 PM, David Soderblom wrote:
 I very much doubt that calcium carbide output would be used for welding: just too slow, difficult to regulate

    When I was in Korea around 69/70 they had small containers? that used it for just that, welding.  Saw lots of them.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

Richard Orr <suvcworr@...>
 


mea culpa  my bad  I reversed the effect

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: lars svanevik <lars.svanevik@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, May 15, 2018 4:23 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested

Group,


Calcium ion, in combination with bicarbonate and carbonate ions. is the the species that causes water to be "hard".  Water that contains high concentration of calcium ion, and bicarbonate or carbonate, will precipitate as calcium carbonate when the water is heated.  This causes boiler scale.


Lars.

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Orr via Groups.Io <suvcworr=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 12:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested
 
Calcium carbonate to treat water.  Much of the water available along the PRR mainline was hard which cause a buildup of deposits in the boiler tubes.  Track pans especially had water treatment facilities to soften the water and decrease the deposits.  Thus decrease maintenance costs.

If Calcium carbonite to generate acetylene for welding a wide variety of things or in a wreck train for cutting up wrecks.  Transporting in bags was safer than transporting tanks of gas

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, May 15, 2018 12:26 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested

Elden, Folks

Brian Carlson pointed out photos of this car at the Hagley site.  It is a “Calcium Carbide” car…. Not that this sheds any light on the origin of the car…

Now the puzzle is complicated by the question what would PRR MOW forces have used a car, likely loaded with sacks of Calcium Carbonate for?

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


On May 15, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Bruce;

I have been thinking about this since the Meet (thanks for sharing them!), and I had a few thoughts:

The sides have distinct flavor of X29, with post rivets of closer and wider spacing, not a single rivet row, and 4/4 sides;

The IH is also similarly low;

The shallow X29-like side sill with no substantial evidence of cross-bearers either under the door frame or closer to the trucks;

The roof appears to be a lap-seam design, with fairly narrow spacing, but distinct raises where the seam is, possible to minimize water entry.  No standing seam caps.  Has no look of a commercial roof, more like a home-built job;

The use of Crown trucks, which were common on the PRR;

The "plate" end, with X29/X31-ish stamped poling pockets;

The use of a narrow end walkway and cabin car-like hand grab;

The side door looking like an express or baggage car door.  And with windows in one end only.

This looks to me to be a kind of one-off PRR-built WW2 expedient special purpose car that ran in a wreck train/emergency train.  Like maybe responses to WW 2 emergencies along the ROW.

I hope we find the correspondence some time.  If those inept German saboteurs had done something big, we might've seen this car on the "curve"!

Thanks again for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:28 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested

Folks,



I found the attached photos of PRR 495655 at Bob's Photos at the 50th anniversary PRRT&HS meeting this weekend.  The photos pose a real conundrum as to the origin of the boxcar(?) depicted.  Here are the facts as I see them

1) The photo is dated 1/43 and appears to document a new MOW conversion, given the gray paint with black lettering and lack of any of the stencils needed for interchange.

2) The car has a straight center sill, AB brakes, and andrews trucks

3) The roof appears to be a new add-on and seriously overhangs the sides. Any suggestions as to the roof type are welcome

4) There is no running board or ladders to reach the roof of the car.

5) There is no end sill.  

6) There appears to be a steam line visible on the end of the car.

7) The car has end doors, end grab irons, and a side "express" style door

8) The car is steel with 4 sheets to each side of the door.

Given the andrews truck, I thought X26 rebuild, but the underframe is not a USRA underframe. The sides do not resemble either the X25 or X29 series of cars. Given the steam line, this car may have previously been in express service (and the side and/or end doors may be a remnant of that, or may be new to the conversion).

So, bottom line? This does not appear to be a modification of any PRR boxcar class as far as I can tell.  In discussions this weekend, we postulated that it could be a wreck write off from another road, or possibly, a "scratchbuilt" box from available components. Can anyone out there identify the car that was used for this MOW conversion?

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

lars svanevik
 

Group,


Calcium ion, in combination with bicarbonate and carbonate ions. is the the species that causes water to be "hard".  Water that contains high concentration of calcium ion, and bicarbonate or carbonate, will precipitate as calcium carbonate when the water is heated.  This causes boiler scale.


Lars.


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Orr via Groups.Io <suvcworr@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 12:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested
 
Calcium carbonate to treat water.  Much of the water available along the PRR mainline was hard which cause a buildup of deposits in the boiler tubes.  Track pans especially had water treatment facilities to soften the water and decrease the deposits.  Thus decrease maintenance costs.

If Calcium carbonite to generate acetylene for welding a wide variety of things or in a wreck train for cutting up wrecks.  Transporting in bags was safer than transporting tanks of gas

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, May 15, 2018 12:26 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested

Elden, Folks

Brian Carlson pointed out photos of this car at the Hagley site.  It is a “Calcium Carbide” car…. Not that this sheds any light on the origin of the car…

Now the puzzle is complicated by the question what would PRR MOW forces have used a car, likely loaded with sacks of Calcium Carbonate for?

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


On May 15, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Bruce;

I have been thinking about this since the Meet (thanks for sharing them!), and I had a few thoughts:

The sides have distinct flavor of X29, with post rivets of closer and wider spacing, not a single rivet row, and 4/4 sides;

The IH is also similarly low;

The shallow X29-like side sill with no substantial evidence of cross-bearers either under the door frame or closer to the trucks;

The roof appears to be a lap-seam design, with fairly narrow spacing, but distinct raises where the seam is, possible to minimize water entry.  No standing seam caps.  Has no look of a commercial roof, more like a home-built job;

The use of Crown trucks, which were common on the PRR;

The "plate" end, with X29/X31-ish stamped poling pockets;

The use of a narrow end walkway and cabin car-like hand grab;

The side door looking like an express or baggage car door.  And with windows in one end only.

This looks to me to be a kind of one-off PRR-built WW2 expedient special purpose car that ran in a wreck train/emergency train.  Like maybe responses to WW 2 emergencies along the ROW.

I hope we find the correspondence some time.  If those inept German saboteurs had done something big, we might've seen this car on the "curve"!

Thanks again for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:28 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested

Folks,



I found the attached photos of PRR 495655 at Bob's Photos at the 50th anniversary PRRT&HS meeting this weekend.  The photos pose a real conundrum as to the origin of the boxcar(?) depicted.  Here are the facts as I see them

1) The photo is dated 1/43 and appears to document a new MOW conversion, given the gray paint with black lettering and lack of any of the stencils needed for interchange.

2) The car has a straight center sill, AB brakes, and andrews trucks

3) The roof appears to be a new add-on and seriously overhangs the sides. Any suggestions as to the roof type are welcome

4) There is no running board or ladders to reach the roof of the car.

5) There is no end sill.  

6) There appears to be a steam line visible on the end of the car.

7) The car has end doors, end grab irons, and a side "express" style door

8) The car is steel with 4 sheets to each side of the door.

Given the andrews truck, I thought X26 rebuild, but the underframe is not a USRA underframe. The sides do not resemble either the X25 or X29 series of cars. Given the steam line, this car may have previously been in express service (and the side and/or end doors may be a remnant of that, or may be new to the conversion).

So, bottom line? This does not appear to be a modification of any PRR boxcar class as far as I can tell.  In discussions this weekend, we postulated that it could be a wreck write off from another road, or possibly, a "scratchbuilt" box from available components. Can anyone out there identify the car that was used for this MOW conversion?

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

al_brown03
 

Thinking about the interior photo, and the racks on the floor. The floor isn't necessarily dry, and you really don't want calcium carbide getting wet. (That's how acetylene is generated from it.) So the racks keep the lading up off the floor. But, why don't the racks cover the whole floor? Are the sacks on pallets? Hmm ...

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. (chemist)


Re: Boxcar identification help requested

Steve and Barb Hile
 

What about use for portable flood lights at the site of a derailment?

Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of David Soderblom
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 3:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar identification help requested

Calcium carbide is indeed used to generate acetylene. Most common use
is/was in miners' helmets. It releases C2H2 when mixed with water, so a
small reservoir would drip onto the carbide. I very much doubt that calcium
carbide output would be used for welding: just too slow, difficult to
regulate, and you buy tanks of gas for that.

Was PRR engaged in a tunneling project at the time? That would explain the
need for the material for the workers.


David Soderblom
Baltimore MD
david.soderblom@gmail.com


Re: Athearn blue box gon

Fred Jansz
 

Thank you Ben for the link.
I've downloaded and saved the DT&I Mill gon project pdf by Greg Martin.
Nice future project.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz_ctrHrDz4wNDY0YjgyYWItNjY4NC00ZDY2LTg3NjgtZDNkMjg3ZjU5MzU5/view
Fred Jansz

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