Date   

Re: Name that gondola end?

Tim O'Connor
 


lol - yeah, odd, even, whatever. :-)

So it appears the cars were completely rebuilt after 1955! They received steel sides,
and probably new ends as well. This July 1959 photo (posted by Ted Culotta on Ebay)
shows the rebuilt cars. It would be very interesting to know whether any of them kept
their spiral ends.

Tim



Thanks for sharing the photo, Tim.  I have a pair of Shapeways ends that were looking for a place to be used.  I assume that you meant ODD numbers!
 
Steve Hile


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [ mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 11:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Name that gondola end?


Call it a "spiral" end. It's been discussed before, a little bit. As John Barry
says, Soo Line had some - series 63801 to 64799, 498 even-numbered cars in 1940.
By 1950 there were still 493 cars. By 1955, 224 cars had been rebuilt with steel
floors, but there were still 257 cars as built. In 1959 only 8 original cars were
on the roster, but there were still 469 cars with steel floors! And I know it's
going past 1960, but in 1965 there were still 277 of these strange gondolas!

Kinda makes me wonder, why aren't these considered to be "signature" Soo Line cars?

Tim O'Connor



===========================

Most likely a Monon gon, but it could be a SOO line as they had some too.  The cars can be modeled with the Intermountain USRA gon and a Shapeways end.  We had a good discussion on a number of these in the Barriger collection several months back.
John Barry

===========================

Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.
....Mike


Re: Name that gondola end?

MDelvec952
 



Beautiful model, Bob, thanks.  I must have missed the discussion on these ends, but glad to see the photo of the model. 

The freight yard is in Newark, NJ, on the Lackawanna early in 1926, accessed through the lower level of a double-deck drawbridge. The picture was taken due to an incident on the upper level of the bridge, so there aren't any other photos off the yard taken this day.  The upper level is still in daily service today on NJTransit.

                      ....Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chapman <chapbob611@...>
To: main <main@realSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, May 19, 2018 1:34 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Name that gondola end?

Mike --

Here's a model of the Monon gon. Chad Boas supplied the cast resin Spiral-Dreadnaught ends.

Regards,
Bob Chapman


Mike writes:
Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.


Re: Name that gondola end?

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Bob,
 
Nice job.  Are those the Shapeways ends that Steve mentioned, or something else?
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532
 

From: Bob Chapman
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 1:33 PM
To: main@realSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Name that gondola end?
 

Mike --

 

Here's a model of the Monon gon. Chad Boas supplied the cast resin Spiral-Dreadnaught ends.

 

Regards,

Bob Chapman

 

 

Mike writes:

Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.


Re: Name that gondola end?

Bob Chapman
 

Mike --


Here's a model of the Monon gon. Chad Boas supplied the cast resin Spiral-Dreadnaught ends.


Regards,

Bob Chapman



Mike writes:

Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.


Re: Name that gondola end?

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Thanks for sharing the photo, Tim.  I have a pair of Shapeways ends that were looking for a place to be used.  I assume that you meant ODD numbers!
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 11:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Name that gondola end?


Call it a "spiral" end. It's been discussed before, a little bit. As John Barry
says, Soo Line had some - series 63801 to 64799, 498 even-numbered cars in 1940.
By 1950 there were still 493 cars. By 1955, 224 cars had been rebuilt with steel
floors, but there were still 257 cars as built. In 1959 only 8 original cars were
on the roster, but there were still 469 cars with steel floors! And I know it's
going past 1960, but in 1965 there were still 277 of these strange gondolas!

Kinda makes me wonder, why aren't these considered to be "signature" Soo Line cars?

Tim O'Connor



===========================

Most likely a Monon gon, but it could be a SOO line as they had some too.  The cars can be modeled with the Intermountain USRA gon and a Shapeways end.  We had a good discussion on a number of these in the Barriger collection several months back.
John Barry

===========================

Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.
....Mike


Re: Why Transfer cabooses?

Jerry Michels
 

Also getting on and off a larger platform would be easier than in and out of a typical caboose body.  All-around visibility in the yard would be much better from the platform.  Jerry Michels


Re: Name that gondola end?

Brian Termunde
 

There's no such railroad of course (maybe in the distant 'future' >G>, but for some reason, that end just brings the words 'Penn Central' to mind . . . but of course, there isn't any such railroad, not in our time period anyway! ; )

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah


Iowa Terminal/PRR gun flat

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

A year or two ago we discussed an ex-PRR F22 or F23 flat car that survived on the Iowa Terminal Railroad. As I was scanning my father's slides (Glenn G. Groff), I came across a photo of this car taken in 1982. Yes, it was converted by the ITR into a snow plow, but also sports a tower for working on overhead wires. I'm thinking the car is an F22 with most of its wooden deck removed, since there is still one plank at the near end supporting the brake wheel. Note how close the brake wheel is to the corner, and the silver-painted archbar trucks (the ITR's motors and diesel locomotives were orange and silver). Sorry about the loss of the sky tones, but this was a salvage job on a badly overexposed photo.



Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


Re: Name that gondola end?

Jack Mullen
 

These spiral rib ends have been discussed here occasionally. I seem to recall that Dennis Storzek found they were from Haskell & Barker.

Jack Mullen


Re: Name that gondola end?

Tim O'Connor
 


Call it a "spiral" end. It's been discussed before, a little bit. As John Barry
says, Soo Line had some - series 63801 to 64799, 498 even-numbered cars in 1940.
By 1950 there were still 493 cars. By 1955, 224 cars had been rebuilt with steel
floors, but there were still 257 cars as built. In 1959 only 8 original cars were
on the roster, but there were still 469 cars with steel floors! And I know it's
going past 1960, but in 1965 there were still 277 of these strange gondolas!

Kinda makes me wonder, why aren't these considered to be "signature" Soo Line cars?

Tim O'Connor



===========================

Most likely a Monon gon, but it could be a SOO line as they had some too.  The cars can be modeled with the Intermountain USRA gon and a Shapeways end.  We had a good discussion on a number of these in the Barriger collection several months back.
John Barry

===========================

Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.
....Mike


Re: Name that gondola end?

John Barry
 

Mike,

Most likely a Monon gon, but it could be a SOO line as they had some too.  The cars can be modeled with the Intermountain USRA gon and a Shapeways end.  We had a good discussion on a number of these in the Barriger collection several months back.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: MDelvec952 via Groups.Io <MDelvec952@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 10:26 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Name that gondola end?



Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.

                       ....Mike 





Name that gondola end?

MDelvec952
 



Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.

                       ....Mike 



Name that gondola end?

MDelvec952
 



Came across a photo of a freight yard, and one one of the tracks is the end of a gondola I hadn't seen before. I'm sharing it here so that others may see it, and so that some may be able to identify it, with one continuous indentation filling the end, like lines on a vinyl record.

                       ....Mike 



Re: Why Transfer cabooses?

MDelvec952
 



Transfer jobs usually required shoving long strings of cars from departure tracks in one yard to arrival tracks in others, often to another railroad. For a trainman to ride the side of a boxcar over those distances was strenuous and risky. The transfer cabooses were often simply a platform of some sort to provide a place to ride for these long shoves. Correct, transfer cabooses didn't need all the appointments of a road caboose since they weren't going far, and since they often stayed with the cut of cars and returned on the reciprocal move. Also, certain union arbitraries provided for extra pay to trainmen who had to ride long shoves without a caboose.  Most transfer hacks didn't have cupolas so that the locomotive headlight could shine above the roof of the transfer caboose when a locomotive was coupled to it. In the days before radios, the trainmen space themselves out on the roofs of the train to pass hand signals between the leading end and the engineer.

                  ....Mike Del Vecchio


-----Original Message-----
From: jace6315 via Groups.Io <jace6315@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 18, 2018 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Why Transfer cabooses?

I believe that some roads invested in transfer cabooses to win favor with the union. I wouldn't be surprised if the NYC had this in mind when they rebuilt a bunch of boxcar frames into transfer cabs right before the PC merger. It definitely didn't hurt that they had lots and lots of comparatively young, obsolete 40' boxcars to work with.

Jim Matthews 

-------- Original message --------
From: Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...>
Date: 5/19/18 12:16 AM (GMT+01:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Why Transfer cabooses?

I might not be one of those addressed  ;^)  but I'll offer this anyway. 
The various forms of transfer caboose are cheap, compared to new "regular" cabooses. If you have a surplus of good road cabooses, fine, assign some to transfer service. If you need to replace some older road cabooses, fine, invest in new ones from International or Thrall, and cascade the old hacks to transfer service after stripping the interiors of unneeded stuff, such as bunks.
But otherwise, why buy?  Grab a surplus/obsolescent flatcar, have the car shop weld up a basic steel box with two doors and a heater, add basic steps, renew the deck and put handrails around, and you're good to go. The cash outlay is small, the flatcar was fully depreciated so the capital cost is also.
Jack Mullen


Re: Why Transfer cabooses?

jace6315
 

I believe that some roads invested in transfer cabooses to win favor with the union. I wouldn't be surprised if the NYC had this in mind when they rebuilt a bunch of boxcar frames into transfer cabs right before the PC merger. It definitely didn't hurt that they had lots and lots of comparatively young, obsolete 40' boxcars to work with.

Jim Matthews 

-------- Original message --------
From: Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...>
Date: 5/19/18 12:16 AM (GMT+01:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Why Transfer cabooses?

I might not be one of those addressed  ;^)  but I'll offer this anyway. 
The various forms of transfer caboose are cheap, compared to new "regular" cabooses. If you have a surplus of good road cabooses, fine, assign some to transfer service. If you need to replace some older road cabooses, fine, invest in new ones from International or Thrall, and cascade the old hacks to transfer service after stripping the interiors of unneeded stuff, such as bunks.
But otherwise, why buy?  Grab a surplus/obsolescent flatcar, have the car shop weld up a basic steel box with two doors and a heater, add basic steps, renew the deck and put handrails around, and you're good to go. The cash outlay is small, the flatcar was fully depreciated so the capital cost is also.
Jack Mullen


Re: Why Transfer cabooses?

Jack Mullen
 

I might not be one of those addressed  ;^)  but I'll offer this anyway. 
The various forms of transfer caboose are cheap, compared to new "regular" cabooses. If you have a surplus of good road cabooses, fine, assign some to transfer service. If you need to replace some older road cabooses, fine, invest in new ones from International or Thrall, and cascade the old hacks to transfer service after stripping the interiors of unneeded stuff, such as bunks.
But otherwise, why buy?  Grab a surplus/obsolescent flatcar, have the car shop weld up a basic steel box with two doors and a heater, add basic steps, renew the deck and put handrails around, and you're good to go. The cash outlay is small, the flatcar was fully depreciated so the capital cost is also.
Jack Mullen


Re: Why Transfer cabooses?

Ray Breyer
 


>>On Friday, May 18, 2018, 4:05:50 PM CDT, Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:
>>Why did many railroads build special “transfer cabooses”?  Why not just use a regular caboose?  It seems like extra effort to 
>>build the “shack on a flat”, and I don’t understand why that effort is justified.
>>Thanks,
>>Jeff


Most transfer cabooses weren't outhouses on flat cars; they were typically old, worn out regular cabooses with their cupolas either removed or boarded over so they couldn't be used. If a railroad needed a few transfer cabooses purpose built they usually turned to old boxcars and gave them vestibule ends and a few windows.

The reason was simple: terminals had a lot of slow going, and a lot of slack action. You didn't WANT crews in the cupolas, because the risk of falling was far higher than while on the road. The purpose built or rebuilt transfer cabooses were cupola-less for the same reason. 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


  


Why Transfer cabooses?

Aley, Jeff A
 

Learned and Esteemed Listmembers (you know who you are!),

 

               Why did many railroads build special “transfer cabooses”?  Why not just use a regular caboose?  It seems like extra effort to build the “shack on a flat”, and I don’t understand why that effort is justified.

 

Thanks,

 

-Jeff

 


Merchants Despatch

George Corral
 

Hi all,

I'm looking for the book Merchants Despatch, Its History and Equipment by Roger C. Hinman.

If you have a copy you don't mind sending my way, please contact me at    aileron44@...


George Corral
La Grange, KY


FOR SALE HO Kits

Storey Lindsay
 

Group,

 

I still have a few Sunshine, Westerfield, and Funaro & Camerlengo HO-Scale resin kits I need to find new homes for. I have reduced the prices in order to clear them out. If you are interested, please let me know OFFLINE at --  storey.lindsay@... -- and I will send you a list of what is still available.  Thanks for your interest.

Storey Lindsay
Celje, Slovenia

 

38201 - 38220 of 194713