Date   

Re: Decal setting solution options

Jim King
 

Armand … I’ve read that Testors and Tamiya decal setting solutions are stronger than Solvaset but I’ve not tried either myself.  I do know from personal experience that full-strength Solvaset, Microsol blue and red, lacquer thinner and MEK won’t work.  An S scaler recently stated he’s had success with Testors.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: Decal setting solution options

Jim Betz
 

Hi,
  I think the problems people are having are related as much to "process" as
they are to "products".  I will provide my methods for doing decals - this process
has never failed me.  Caveat up front - I do not use "thin film" decals - the
most delicate decals I have used are Microscale.

 1) I start with a surface that has been cleaned recently - please note I didn't
     say I "prepared the surface with some kind of gloss coat product" - as long
     as it is clean it's good enough for my methods.  I let the surface dry.
 2) I float the decal off of the backing in distilled water and pick it up using
     a #11 Xacto blade by pushing the side of the blade under the decal. 
     Some times I will 'coax' it off of the backing with the tip of the blade. 
 3) I transfer the decal to the model and very gently coax it from its "as close
     as possible when sliding it off to final position using the tip of the blade or
     some times the point of a straight pin.  This step often involves adding
     more distilled water to the decal.  I then use the corner of a 1/2" square
     piece of paper towel to - from the edge only - wick away any excess
     water.  I hold that piece of towel in some cross lock tweezers.  And let it
     dry - untouched.  Because I wick it - the drying time is usually between 15
     and 30 minutes tops.
 4) When it is dry I check the position - if it isn't where I want it ... I float on
      some distilled water, let that soak in for a couple of minutes, and position
      again, wick if necessary, and let it dry again. 
 5) When I'm happy with the position - and the decal is dry - I use the point of
      a straight pin (I like the ones that are about 2" long and have a round
      bead on them) and I tap, tap, tap everywhere there is decal to pierce
      the decal with -lots- of small pin pricks.  It is very important that this be
      done when the decal is dry.  (This is also how I clear up silvered decals
      on models I've purchased - by starting here at this step.)
 6) I now start applying Solvaset by floating a layer of it (think "a low bubble all
     across it") on top of the decal) and then following that up by wicking away
     any excess ... again using the corner of a 1/2" square of paper towel.
     and wicking off any extra.  Let it dry.  Repeat as necessary.  If an area
     silvers I re-prick (is that a word? *G*) the DRY decal before the next
     application of Solvaset.  It rarely takes more than 2 applications of
     Solvaset and if I've done the best job possible its only one.  Important -
     I never allow the Solvaset brush to come in contact with the surface.
     In order to do that I apply it by using my other hand under the hand
     with the Solvaset brush as a support that controls 'depth'.
 7) My next step is -always- to use distilled water to clean off any excess
     Solvaset ... to get rid of any 'shadow lines'.  Again I wick it - to reduce
     the drying time.  
 8) Final step is to over spray with the coating of choice for the day. 

  I have used this process for all of my decal work for all brands of
decals I've ever used.  I have never had problems with my decals
silvering or even being able to "see that they are there" (and not
inked lettering).  I routinely make badly silvered decals look good
by simply pricking and applying Solvaset.

  Many guys use other processes and/or other products.  This is
what "works for me".
                                                                                          - Jim B.


Re: Covered hopper traffic patterns was Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Ben,
Sorry you misunderstood my post.
My comment on the loss of serious modelers was in reference to many of the "newer" MR Staff members who, as you pointed out, haven't the same input as Andy, Jeff and some of the other more professional staff members. I feel it has made the magazine  much less important to us as modelers and more a beginners guide.

I'm HERE because I consider myself a serious modeler and appreciate the discussions and information this group provides and this old horse can always learn something.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


Re: Decal setting solution options

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Bill,

Thanks for that link to the Tamiya solution. I wasn't aware they made one. I'll have to assume it's pretty good stuff based on the quality of their paint. It's the only acrylic I like using. Sure wish they would do a line of railroad based colors.

In that link I noticed Badger has a decal solution too at the bottom of the page.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


Re: Covered hopper traffic patterns was Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 


"With the loss of some serious modelers the quality of everything has diminished to a waste of ink and electrons to me."

So...why exactly are you here?

Ben Hom


Re: Covered hopper traffic patterns was Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Benjamin Hom
 

Roger Huber wrote:
"So you don't hang of MR's word as gospel? lol I guess you and I are in the minority thinking that. I finally came to that realization back many years ago with a glowing review of a Tyco diesel I had experience with and knew it was just stroking an advertiser."

My thoughts 14(!) years ago after a laughable Terry Thompson review of the initial release of the Trix UP freight cars in MR.


"With the loss of some serious modelers the quality of everything has diminished to a waste of ink and electrons to me."

So...why exactly are you here?


Ben Hom


Covered hopper traffic patterns was Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

The issue with “could” versus “likely” might be important… while any car that was approved for interchange “could” travel anywhere in the US connected to the standard gauge network of tracks, I think that covered hoppers in cement service typically remained relatively local to regional in distribution (much like their open brethren in mineral service). Hence, modeling the PRR, I feel pretty comfortable with a B&O N-34 showing up. Even in the midst of WWII, I would be much less comfortable with an SP or UP covered hopped appearing. Now, some railroads get tricky.  For example, the AT&SF and PRR had a connection in Chicago, so would a Santa Fe hopper of any ilk be appropriate? If I modeled Lines West, I might be happy with that but I am less so in my Lines East location.  Whereas I am quite confident that ATSF boxcars, flatcars, SFRD Reefers and the occasional gondola are quite appropriate for my eastern PA location. 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On May 31, 2018, at 8:09 AM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...> wrote:

Ben,

So you don't hang of MR's word as gospel? lol I guess you and I are in the minority thinking that. I finally came to that realization back many years ago with a glowing review of a Tyco diesel I had experience with and knew it was just stroking an advertiser.

With the loss of some serious modelers the quality of everything has diminished to a waste of ink and electrons to me. 

I think the interchange system in place and the sales departments of the railroads and companies served would dictate any car could end up most anywhere. I know of no restrictions as to interchanging cars that are eligible for that service. A company could also dictate which railroad routing they used so anything ought to be possible.

No photos..........no proof.


Re: Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Ben,

So you don't hang of MR's word as gospel? lol I guess you and I are in the minority thinking that. I finally came to that realization back many years ago with a glowing review of a Tyco diesel I had experience with and knew it was just stroking an advertiser.

With the loss of some serious modelers the quality of everything has diminished to a waste of ink and electrons to me. 

I think the interchange system in place and the sales departments of the railroads and companies served would dictate any car could end up most anywhere. I know of no restrictions as to interchanging cars that are eligible for that service. A company could also dictate which railroad routing they used so anything ought to be possible.

No photos..........no proof.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Thursday, May 31, 2018, 7:56:33 AM CDT, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Bob Chaparro asked: 
"The June 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a product review (Page 66) of Spring Mills Depot's HO scale B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers. The review states that these cars carried cement, soda ash, clay and (later) glass sand.

The review also concedes that these cars operated mainly in the Midwest. However, the review also suggests these cars could have traveled across the country.

I know this group has pretty well established that similar covered hoppers almost always stayed on or close to their home tracks. So in
this instance, would their have been any commodity originated in the B&O's territory that would have traveled well outside that
territory?"

Taking something as truth from a review in MR is venturing into very dangerous ground.  MR's reviews barely meet any standard of honest criticism, and any "facts" presented beyond the basic should be viewed with skepticism, especially with the departure of staffers such as Marty McGuirk and the passing of Andy Sperandeo.


Ben Hom


Re: Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

I model the Rock Island in Texas. Years ago, I bought a brass B&O wagon top hopper, just because they look so cool. I don’t care if they never got to Texas.

 

 

Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 7:56 AM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"The June 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a product review (Page 66) of Spring Mills Depot's HO scale B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers. The review states that these cars carried cement, soda ash, clay and (later) glass sand.

 

The review also concedes that these cars operated mainly in the Midwest. However, the review also suggests these cars could have traveled across the country.

 

I know this group has pretty well established that similar covered hoppers almost always stayed on or close to their home tracks. So in

this instance, would their have been any commodity originated in the B&O's territory that would have traveled well outside that
territory?"

Taking something as truth from a review in MR is venturing into very dangerous ground.  MR's reviews barely meet any standard of honest criticism, and any "facts" presented beyond the basic should be viewed with skepticism, especially with the departure of staffers such as Marty McGuirk and the passing of Andy Sperandeo.

 

 

Ben Hom


CB&T Shops ladders

Matt Smith
 

Does anyone know of a source of ladders for CB&T shops boxcars. Working on the Chicago RPM mini kit and 3 of the ladders are broke. I’d use other ladders but the CB&T kit pieces have the nice curved profile of the CGW prototype. I’ll probably just get a few kits off eBay if they don’t sell just the ladders.

Thanks
Matt Smith


Re: Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"The June 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a product review (Page 66) of Spring Mills Depot's HO scale B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers. The review states that these cars carried cement, soda ash, clay and (later) glass sand.

The review also concedes that these cars operated mainly in the Midwest. However, the review also suggests these cars could have traveled across the country.

I know this group has pretty well established that similar covered hoppers almost always stayed on or close to their home tracks. So in
this instance, would their have been any commodity originated in the B&O's territory that would have traveled well outside that
territory?"

Taking something as truth from a review in MR is venturing into very dangerous ground.  MR's reviews barely meet any standard of honest criticism, and any "facts" presented beyond the basic should be viewed with skepticism, especially with the departure of staffers such as Marty McGuirk and the passing of Andy Sperandeo.


Ben Hom


Re: Decal setting solution options

Bill Welch
 

Thanks for confirming my memory Richard. Given that it not on their website, hopefully they include it with their decals. Still, this seems like a desperate effort for what is obviously a badly flawed product.

For those still looking for a more effective Decal Set, Tamiya has a relatively new product: https://freetimehobbies.com/tamiya-mark-fit-strong-decal-setting-solution/

Bill Welch


Re: Freight Car Truck article in June 2018 MRH

rdgbuff56
 

Jack,
I do the same thing. Scan articles from mags and down load to various folders. Do you have any on side sill measurements?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.
--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 5/29/18, Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Freight Car Truck article in June 2018 MRH
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 1:44 PM

[snip]So I don’t
understand why anyone needs someone to send them a
pdf.    John
Hagen  John…I, like many others,
like to keep articles like this one in a folder on my
computer where it is easily available for reference. My
folder has all of Richard Bale’s articles, Gene Green’s
articles on air brakes and rivets, and about 90
more…  Jack


Re: Decal setting solution options

Tim O'Connor
 


LOL! What's next, "iron on" decals? Just a bit of heat is all you need...


Well, they didn't suggest using a stapler, so there's that.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2018 8:20 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decal setting solution options

Richard,

I stand corrected and educated but.....................WOW!!!

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 10:12:05 PM CDT, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend= netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:


Here is what Tichy says:

Due to the problems some of you are having with adhesion of logos and other large decal areas, we have changed our recommended application procedure. Float the decal off the backing paper and blot dry with a paper towel. Use a Q-Tip to apply a thin coat of Elmer's clear glue to the back side. Position the decal with tweezers and press in place with a piece of stiff flexible foam (foam from a brass model box works great). Let dry overnight and over spray with clear lacquer (glosscote or dullcote).

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: Decal setting solution options

Richard Townsend
 

Well, they didn't suggest using a stapler, so there's that.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2018 8:20 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decal setting solution options

Richard,

I stand corrected and educated but.....................WOW!!!

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 10:12:05 PM CDT, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend=netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:


Here is what Tichy says:

Due to the problems some of you are having with adhesion of logos and other large decal areas, we have changed our recommended application procedure. Float the decal off the backing paper and blot dry with a paper towel. Use a Q-Tip to apply a thin coat of Elmer's clear glue to the back side. Position the decal with tweezers and press in place with a piece of stiff flexible foam (foam from a brass model box works great). Let dry overnight and over spray with clear lacquer (glosscote or dullcote).

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2018 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decal setting solution options

Bill,

HOW would Elmers white glue work on decals?

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 7:29:45 PM CDT, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


IIRC Tichy was suggesting using Elmer's or equivalent white glue with their larger decals. I just looked on their website and cannot find this advisory.

Bill Welch


Re: Decal setting solution options

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Richard,

I stand corrected and educated but.....................WOW!!!

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 10:12:05 PM CDT, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


Here is what Tichy says:

Due to the problems some of you are having with adhesion of logos and other large decal areas, we have changed our recommended application procedure. Float the decal off the backing paper and blot dry with a paper towel. Use a Q-Tip to apply a thin coat of Elmer's clear glue to the back side. Position the decal with tweezers and press in place with a piece of stiff flexible foam (foam from a brass model box works great). Let dry overnight and over spray with clear lacquer (glosscote or dullcote).

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2018 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decal setting solution options

Bill,

HOW would Elmers white glue work on decals?

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 7:29:45 PM CDT, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


IIRC Tichy was suggesting using Elmer's or equivalent white glue with their larger decals. I just looked on their website and cannot find this advisory.

Bill Welch


Re: Decal setting solution options

Richard Townsend
 

Here is what Tichy says:

Due to the problems some of you are having with adhesion of logos and other large decal areas, we have changed our recommended application procedure. Float the decal off the backing paper and blot dry with a paper towel. Use a Q-Tip to apply a thin coat of Elmer's clear glue to the back side. Position the decal with tweezers and press in place with a piece of stiff flexible foam (foam from a brass model box works great). Let dry overnight and over spray with clear lacquer (glosscote or dullcote).

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2018 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decal setting solution options

Bill,

HOW would Elmers white glue work on decals?

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 7:29:45 PM CDT, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


IIRC Tichy was suggesting using Elmer's or equivalent white glue with their larger decals. I just looked on their website and cannot find this advisory.

Bill Welch


Re: Decal setting solution options

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Elmar’s will definitely help getting the decals to stick (another problem with these new laser printed decals) but I’m not certain if they will help with the “settling down.”

But if you have the decals and the model, try it and let us know.

I’ve also read rather recently someone used the Testor’s setting solution with better results than Solvaset. Testor’s also has a decal bonding spray that may help.

These laser printed decals that use a white base coat and their high resolution can be really nice if a way can be found top apply them so they stick and settle down around rivets and other details. Maybe it’s time to try some newer products for these newer printing methods.

Back “in the day” many modelers considered Solvaset to be too powerful to the point where it could damage decals. But now there are decals that cannot be touched by the older products  we need to see what the airplane and vehicle modelers are doing.

Also, someone again stated that their decals are better than Alps printed decals because of, well because they are Alps printed. And yet many modelers bemoan the fact that some of the Alps decals are no longer on  the market.

An Alps printed decal can be just as good, or better, than anything else, with in certain limitations, if done correctly. They can and often are more opaque than Microscale, they can be print in short runs, even down to a single set for much less than any other method, and work well with common setting solutions.

Yes, there were guys using Alps for decals that never learned just how versatile their printers were or how to get the best out of them. All I’m saying here is do not over look a decal set just because it was printed on an Alps.

John Hagen

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decal setting solution options

 

I saw it in a May 24 email from them announcing new decals. They suggested Elmer's clear glue for larger decals.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2018 5:29 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decal setting solution options

IIRC Tichy was suggesting using Elmer's or equivalent white glue with their larger decals. I just looked on their website and cannot find this advisory.

Bill Welch


Re: Decal setting solution options

Tim O'Connor
 


Roger - RUN, RUN AWAY, as fast as you can!

Such a shame. What a waste of Jerry Glow's artwork.



Bill,

HOW would Elmers white glue work on decals?

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works




IIRC Tichy was suggesting using Elmer's or equivalent white glue with their larger decals. I just looked on their website and cannot find this advisory.

Bill Welch


Re: Decal setting solution options

Jon Miller
 

On 5/30/2018 6:49 PM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io wrote:

HOW would Elmers white glue work on decals?

    My mind envisions a big mess!=-O

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS