Date   

Re: MILW SS Box Car 711470 by Sunshine Models

Bill Welch
 

The Howe Truss cars were owned by RR's large and small with enough variety of roofs and end to make them endlessly interesting to me. Nice modeling Lester.

Bill Welch


Central & Indian Refinery Cos. Tank Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Central and Indian Refinery Operations - Baltimore & Ohio Railroad - 1910 Era - Lawrenceville, Illinois.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82856031@N04/34969508003/in/album-72157689496617540/

The lengthy caption is copyrighted.

And more:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82856031@N04/29665349985/in/album-72157689496617540/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82856031@N04/17536230291/in/album-72157689496617540/

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: CB&T Shops ladders

Clark Propst
 

I think there's confusion here. The Chicagoland mini-kit is a Red Caboose model...Not C&BT.

I substituted an Intermountain kit so I didn't have to cut off the ends, just glue on the resin ends provided..
Clark Propst


MILW SS Box Car 711470 by Sunshine Models

Lester Breuer
 

If you visited my blog and read the writeup of MILW SS Box Car 713406,  I said you could find writeup and photos of Sunshine Models resin kit MILW SS Box Car 711470.  It was not to be found; however, it is now.  My original writeup and photos of MILW 711470 build were on the Resin Car Works blog in 2017 rather then on my blog.    I now also  have MILWAUKEE SS Box Car, 711470, a Sunshine Models Resin kit  photos and writeup including changes from kit,  paint, etc. on my blog  I started to share photos and writeup on Freight Cars, etc. of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer


Re: Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

So, Bill, let me get this straight. If specialty cements and economic circumstances
in the massively changed economic and regulatory environment of the 1970's involved
long distance shipments, then it must a priori have happened just as often in the
steam era?

Tim O'Connor

While I was a Sales Rep for SCL in the early 70s in Miami there was a severe Portland cement shortage. We handled 5 and 6 cars of cement from NE PA every week for Maule Industries in Miami. Most had LNE and CNJ markings. In the late 70s when I was assigned to the SCL Norfolk, VA sales office I had a regular movement of Calcium Aluminate cement to the Alyeska pipeline project that moved in SAL, ACL, and SCL 2929 cu ft hoppers to Fairbanks, AK. It lasted a couple of years. Also in Miami we had regular visits of ATSF OT hoppers with decorative red stone for landscaping companies.

Bottom line is that my experience was that if it had no clearance problem any car could show up anywhere on occasion. Enjoy your N-34 in the golden state.

Bill McCoy


Re: Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Richard Townsend
 

Seattle to Whittier, AK. Maybe some went via Prince Rupert, but I am not sure.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Andonian via Groups.Io <cereshill@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, May 31, 2018 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

So I have to ask whether those Alyeska bound cars were carfloated up via Seattle....    Anyone have an opinion on this?

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Re: Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Brad Andonian
 

So I have to ask whether those Alyeska bound cars were carfloated up via Seattle....    Anyone have an opinion on this?

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Imbedded Photos Stacking Up

David Payne
 


I blame it on the programmers who put the "new" comments at the top rather, than as I recall from years ago, the bottom of a reply.  I think most responders don't THINK about what is below the reply they are typing.  I like for my reply to be below the original comment and do some cutting and pasting to make it happen.

David Payne
Georgia


Re: Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Bill McCoy
 

While I was a Sales Rep for SCL in the early 70’s in Miami there was a severe Portland cement shortage. We handled 5  and 6 cars of cement from NE PA every week for Maule Industries in Miami. Most had LNE and CNJ markings. In the late 70’s when I was assigned to the SCL Norfolk, VA sales office I had a regular movement of Calcium Aluminate cement to the Alyeska pipeline project that moved in SAL, ACL, and SCL 2929 cu ft hoppers to Fairbanks, AK. It lasted a couple of years. Also in Miami we had regular visits of ATSF OT hoppers with decorative red stone for landscaping companies.

Bottom line is that my experience was that if it had no clearance problem any car could show up anywhere on occasion. Enjoy your N-34 in the golden state.

 

Bill McCoy


Re: Decal Paper/Ink [was:setting solution] options

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Richard,
A very well thought out message indeed.
However, you missed screen printing of decals.
This process, once a mainstream method for waterslide decals, still has some users. And, with advancements in technology, they are much higher in resolution than early days.
And they can print multiple layers, allowing a white under coat for opaque colors. But, the current crop of machines are expensive, and it can still be time consuming process.
Also, they use photo etched screens for each design, one for each color used. That drives the cost up for all but large numbers of decal sets.
Offset printing use photo etched metal plates, albeit it not one per color.
If you order from Microscale a minimum order of 200 sets (sheets really) is required.
Inkjet, Laser, UV-LED and Alps printers print directly from a file. No etching or photographing of artwork necessary.
Design the artwork using a SVG format (Scalable Vector Graphic) and send it to the printer. Depending on the print method, the artwork may use one layer for all colors, two layers, one for white and one for colors, or, for Alps one layer for each color to be printed. It can be done with the two layer method, and many have been done that way, but for the sharpest decals the best way is to use spot color printing which equals one layer per color.
Any method requires multiple passes of color for opaque colors, except black or, in Alps case, metallic colors. Since most of us are interested on model railroad decals, there is little need for metallic colors.
Far and away the best and really only choice method for basement or garage printers is the Alps. Back in the day, smaller printers could use screen printing for a relatively small investment but it was a much more time and money consuming process. I've watched Don Manlick do some printing, and it was way more involved that Alps printing. And his was a very basic set up. BTW, I've done some artwork for him, again in vector format, but I supplied it to him camera ready, which meant at 200% the final size.
It is easy to get some rather thick images with an Alps if one is not really up on their abilities. There were a lot of poorly made Alps decals printed by people that used photographs for artwork or went through the effort to create artwork using photo programs without understanding the ins and outs of doing so. B ut for the guy that knew or learned how to use a vector program, Adobe Illustrator and CorelDRAW being the most common, and learned the idiosyncrasies of an Alps, very high quality decals can be printed.
BUT, the technology is old, the printers are fragile as hell, especially the print head, colors are limited, the highest resolution possible is 600 dpi, good twenty years ago but in today's world, minimal and the ink supply is weak and getting more expensive by the day.
I am looking for someone who can print my artwork so it will be opaque and easily to apply so the rivets and other detail on the model are not hidden.
So far I haven't found one that can do as good a job as my Alps printers. My best bet is to find a printing company that uses a hi-res screen printer. But they are rare and into doing such small jobs.
If you order from anyone, get the smallest order as possible and then apply them yourself on a model to be certain they will work out as you need.
John Hagen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Brennan
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decal Paper/Ink [was:setting solution] options

All

There are two factors beyond the choice of
setting solution for any wet-slide decal that affect conformability:
- The decal paper formulation
- The ink thickness and technology

Paper:
The 'paper' backing itself is rarely the issue;
but there are many variations in the (usually)
transparent carrier film and the water-soluble adhesive layer.
The carrier film can be thicker or thinner (e.g.
ThinFilm) and the water-soluble material may vary by manufacturer.
Compared to Laser-compatible paper, Ink-Jet paper
has material at the surface which allows the
jetted dot of ink to adhere... but not run.
Laser and ALPS printers don't transfer wet, so
they do not need a semi-absorbent surface.
The material type and the age of the decal used
are the main determinants of how much conformability is possible...
facilitated by setting solutions which work
differently on the various films, but ink thickness can play a role as well.

Ink:
There are currently four major technologies being
used for direct digital printing of decals: Ink-Jet, Laser, ALPS, and UV-LED.

- Ink-Jet printers 'Spit' tiny drops of ink at
the paper. To prevent smearing… overcoat with 'Krylon' spray or ‘Future’
In general, Ink-Jet white is not supported - the
ink colors assume use of a white background

- Laser printers thermally bond static-charged
toner powder to media… and colors assume use of a white background.
Until recently, this meant no white - but
recently GhostWhite in Germany has developed
WHITE toner cartridges for HP and other color laser printers.

- ALPS Micro-Dry printers thermally transfer
colors from ribbons to the decal surface, and
print colors PLUS white and metallic from multiple ribbons.
The ALPS had the unique ability to print a layer,
retract the media, and over-print additional
colors while maintaining alignment.
The ALPS is 1990's technology, the printers are
no longer manufactured, and the ribbons, while
still in the supply chain, are becoming scarce.

- UV-LED - Think of a 3D color printer…
working in 2D. UV-LED is an InkJet-type
technology… but uses UV light for instant curing of of UV-sensitive resin ink.
Most UV-LED printers can print and cure a white
dot… then immediately overprint and UV cure a 2nd
color dot in alignment with the first.
The pricing for UV-LED is not at the hobby (or
even garage manufacturer) level; these are found
at local commercial print shops.
I've had decals printed on a Mimaki JFX, which
prints 8 ink colors, including white, at 1200dpi...
The Mimaki is somewhat size-constrained, as it
will only print up to 4 by 8.... wait a minute... that's 4 by 8 FEET!!!
NB. Under magnification... a UV-LED print will
show MORE ink thickness than the other technologies...
and since it is UV cured resin, larger areas will
have negligible 'stretch' for surface conformity.

So: Solve for 'n' (where n - number of variations - is large)...

I hope this sheds some light on what modelers are
looking at when they pick up and apply that next decal...
any why there is so much difference in the
potential for conforming to sheathing boards,
rivets, and other surface details.

My 2-cents... Comments/Clarifications Welcome.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Brennan - TT-west
www.tt-west.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 05:16 PM 5/30/2018, Pete C wrote:
There was a thread several months ago that
talked about those decals and having very thick
inking and would not “meltâ€


Re: PRR Philadelphia Freight Terminal Photo

Tim O'Connor
 


It's amazing to look at photos of Philly in the steam era. A staggering amount
of railroading going on in those days.

I have seen photos like this before - a "clean out" track on an embankment with
tons of rubbish (dunnage) thrown from the empty cars. It would make an interesting
model scene for a rail yard.

Tim O'





Just a nice photo of the "good old days":

http://alexcraghead.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/VRR282xy_low.jpg

Caption: "Pennsylvania Railroad. Philadelphia freight terminal along Delaware River. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1930–40s. (Jeff Brouws collection). Image courtesy W. W. Norton"

The boxcars along the embankment in the center of the photo appear to have grain doors. There is a lot of debris on the embankment but I wouldn't think this was from grain doors as such doors had some value, yes or no? Perhaps this is just random dunnage.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Shipping Beef Half Sides: Frozen Or Just Very Cold?

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On May 6, 2018, at 6:59 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

My understanding is that meat like this was NOT frozen, but was shipped as cold as possible WITHOUT freezing, to keep it as safe as possible. Shipping temperatures below the freezing temperature of plain water are a certainty, as salt was used in the ice bunker for meat shipping, and salt reduces the freezing point; but I believe the goal was to NOT freeze the meat.
Idunno about transport, but I know something about aging beef. My grandad, Atelio Cauzza[0], had a feed lot[1], slaughterhouse, and cold storage on his property in Colusa CA, and he kept the beef[2] a degree or two above freezing until it'd grown a layer of fur an inch or two thick. The freezing came after the butchering into steaks and roasts and the like if the purchaser desired.

[0] Butter King of the Sacramento Valley, according to a trade paper from the 1940s
[1] fed 'em on grass, not grain, like with his dairy herd
[2] ran 'em on federal rangeland leases in eastern California and western Nevada
--
"I think we are pole vaulting over mouse manure here."
Stolen from a private mailing list


Re: Covered hopper traffic patterns was Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

 

Many freight cars are stenciled to be returned to when empty. Here's a Santa Fe 2 bay covered hopper stenciled to be returned to Oceanside when empty.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



PRR Philadelphia Freight Terminal Photo

Bob Chaparro
 

Just a nice photo of the "good old days":

http://alexcraghead.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/VRR282xy_low.jpg

Caption: "Pennsylvania Railroad. Philadelphia freight terminal along Delaware River. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1930–40s. (Jeff Brouws collection). Image courtesy W. W. Norton"

The boxcars along the embankment in the center of the photo appear to have grain doors. There is a lot of debris on the embankment but I wouldn't think this was from grain doors as such doors had some value, yes or no? Perhaps this is just random dunnage.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: CB&T Shops ladders

Richard Orr <suvcworr@...>
 

The  SFRD reefer ladders have the curved end in them not the boxcar ladders.

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, May 31, 2018 3:24 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&T Shops ladders

Attached is a photo of the C&BT ladders and I am not seeing any curved profile and so I am worried there may be confusion about the ladders that were furnished. I don't want you to end up with the wrong parts.

Bill Welch


Re: CB&T Shops ladders

Bill Welch
 

Attached is a photo of the C&BT ladders and I am not seeing any curved profile and so I am worried there may be confusion about the ladders that were furnished. I don't want you to end up with the wrong parts.

Bill Welch


Re: Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 


I have a photo of a B&O coal hopper being loaded with coke (from petroleum) at
a Texas refinery. The B&O interchanged with the Rock Island and Cotton Belt and
for many years controlled the Chicago & Alton - reaching all the way to Kansas City.

I'd give a "moderate probability" for occasional B&O N-34 appearances in Arkansas and
Texas. But Colorado? California? Not so much. Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin? Highly likely,
but just occasionally. You wouldn't want to see one in every op session.

Tim O'Connor



I model the Rock Island in Texas. Years ago, I bought a brass B&O wagon top hopper,
just because they look so cool. I don't care if they never got to Texas.
Thanks!
Brian Ehni


Re: CB&T Shops ladders

Tim O'Connor
 


Matt I have an abundance of extras - I'll send you some if you give me your
mailing address.

Tim O'Connor


Does anyone know of a source of ladders for CB&T shops boxcars. Working on the Chicago RPM mini kit and 3 of the ladders are broke. Id use other ladders but the CB&T kit pieces have the nice curved profile of the CGW prototype. Ill probably just get a few kits off eBay if they dont sell just the ladders.

Thanks
Matt Smith


Re: Imbedded Photos Stacking Up

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Apr 19, 2018, at 12:14 PM, Garth Groff wrote:

[deletia, in the holy name of clarity]

Can the preferences be changed, or will our administrators be forced to regularly clean out the duplicates before they choke the site?
Echoing Tim, it's just a matter of individual users editing a reply, removing all but the most important material for context, as I did above. Such an activity usually deletes the internal references to any embedded files as well as clearing up the overall context
--
"I think we are pole vaulting over mouse manure here."
Stolen from a private mailing list


Re: Decal Paper/Ink [was:setting solution] options

Richard Brennan
 

All

There are two factors beyond the choice of setting solution for any wet-slide decal that affect conformability:
- The decal paper formulation
- The ink thickness and technology

Paper:
The 'paper' backing itself is rarely the issue; but there are many variations in the (usually) transparent carrier film and the water-soluble adhesive layer.
The carrier film can be thicker or thinner (e.g. ThinFilm) and the water-soluble material may vary by manufacturer.
Compared to Laser-compatible paper, Ink-Jet paper has material at the surface which allows the jetted dot of ink to adhere... but not run.
Laser and ALPS printers don't transfer wet, so they do not need a semi-absorbent surface.
The material type and the age of the decal used are the main determinants of how much conformability is possible...
facilitated by setting solutions which work differently on the various films, but ink thickness can play a role as well.

Ink:
There are currently four major technologies being used for direct digital printing of decals: Ink-Jet, Laser, ALPS, and UV-LED.

- Ink-Jet printers 'Spit' tiny drops of ink at the paper. To prevent smearing… overcoat with 'Krylon' spray or ‘Future’
In general, Ink-Jet white is not supported - the ink colors assume use of a white background

- Laser printers thermally bond static-charged toner powder to media… and colors assume use of a white background.
Until recently, this meant no white - but recently GhostWhite in Germany has developed WHITE toner cartridges for HP and other color laser printers.

- ALPS Micro-Dry printers thermally transfer colors from ribbons to the decal surface, and print colors PLUS white and metallic from multiple ribbons.
The ALPS had the unique ability to print a layer, retract the media, and over-print additional colors while maintaining alignment.
The ALPS is 1990's technology, the printers are no longer manufactured, and the ribbons, while still in the supply chain, are becoming scarce.

- UV-LED - Think of a 3D color printer… working in 2D. UV-LED is an InkJet-type technology… but uses UV light for instant curing of of UV-sensitive resin ink.
Most UV-LED printers can print and cure a white dot… then immediately overprint and UV cure a 2nd color dot in alignment with the first.
The pricing for UV-LED is not at the hobby (or even garage manufacturer) level; these are found at local commercial print shops.
I've had decals printed on a Mimaki JFX, which prints 8 ink colors, including white, at 1200dpi...
The Mimaki is somewhat size-constrained, as it will only print up to 4 by 8.... wait a minute... that's 4 by 8 FEET!!!
NB. Under magnification... a UV-LED print will show MORE ink thickness than the other technologies...
and since it is UV cured resin, larger areas will have negligible 'stretch' for surface conformity.

So: Solve for 'n' (where n - number of variations - is large)...

I hope this sheds some light on what modelers are looking at when they pick up and apply that next decal...
any why there is so much difference in the potential for conforming to sheathing boards, rivets, and other surface details.

My 2-cents... Comments/Clarifications Welcome.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Brennan - TT-west
www.tt-west.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 05:16 PM 5/30/2018, Pete C wrote:
There was a thread several months ago that talked about those decals and having very thick inking and would not “melt� with any solvents we typically use to settle decals.

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