Date   

Not Exactly A Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

The Erie freight car in this photo appears to be some sort of hybrid:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-01-15-12/Erie_boxhop.jpg

Does anyone know what it is and what commodities it carried?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bill,

In James Kinkaid's SOUTHERN RAILWAY GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT there is a Jim King photo of Southern 51861, a Thrall knock-off of a 53' GSC flat. The car was built in September 1956, and in the photo carries what the Kinaid says is the original paint, FCR with Southern spelled out in railroad roman lettering. He is probably right, as the paint is faded and patched.

When we had this conversation back on the old group several years ago, I was told that the GSC flats delivered early in 1954 had the same paint and lettering. I have yet to see a color photo or builder's information that proves this, but see no reason to doubt this was so.

I still contend that the nominal 41' flats we've been discussing were black through the early/mid 1950s when the survivors were painted red. This also appears to be true of various black gondolas, of which I have seen color photos.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/11/18 11:54 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Bill

Southern (CNO&TP) Pullman Standard 70 ton hoppers 281000 to 281299 were
delivered in oxide red paint and Roman lettering in 1957. Similar ACF hoppers
delivered in 1953 were (I think) painted black. So the change was in the
1950's but I don't know precisely when it happened. I also don't know the
date of the change to sans-serif letters.

Tim O'Connor



I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.
Bill Welch


1945 NP Traffic Received from Connections and Originated

gary laakso
 

Again from Moody’s  Steam Railroads 1946, principal commodities:

 

 

  1. Wheat:                                       53,132 carloadings originating on NP and 2,735 carloadings received from connections
  2. Apples, fresh:                              8,126 and 646 received
  3. Potatoes, other than sweet:  10,825 and 1,783 received
  4. Cattle and calves:                     17,616 and 2,357 received
  5. Soft coal:                                    24,721 and 50,568 received
  6. Logs:                                           66,618 4,902 received
  7. Lumber, shingles and laths:    43,851 and 29,721 received
  8. Petrol, oils refined etc.:             8,350 and 12,815 received
  9. Automobiles (passenger):            115 and 496 received
  10. Canned food products:             8,327 and 6,292 received
  11. Sugar (beet or cane):                1,871 and 728 received
  12. Iron & Steel 5th class:               4,174 and8,370 received
  13. Cement, natural or Port.         3,553 and 2,804 received and
  14. Veneer and built-up wood:     3,901 and 90 received.

 

  There are distortions due to WWII, esp. the automobile category.  I clearly need to have more foreign soft coal hoppers. 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock  


GN 1940 Traffic Received from Connections

gary laakso
 

When I served in the SP Law Dept, I had access to the Moody’s Manuals in the Finance Department and this is the data from one of the Manuals.  There is a table on tonnage but this is from the carloadings section:

 

Originating carloads first followed by carloads received from connections:

 

  1. Wheat:                                    47,416 carloads originated and 2,396 received from connections
  2. Flour Wheat:                          12,946 originated and 1,301 received
  3.  Apples, fresh:                       14,588 and 540 received
  4. Potatoes other than sweet: 24,346 and 1,883 received
  5. Cattle and calves:                    8,852 and 1,649 received
  6. Soft coal:                                10,717 and 43,042 received
  7. Iron ore:                               305,488 and 13,380 received
  8. Lumber, Shingles and laths: 37,878 and 25,062 received
  9. Petrol, oils , refined etc.:      27,878 and 14,680 received
  10. Automobiles (passenger):       1,508 and 8,834 received
  11. Sugar (cane and beet):            1,838 and 1,028 received
  12. Fuel, road & pet res. Oils:       4,929 and 5,403 received
  13. Beverages:                                 1,157 and 2,706 received
  14. Canned food products:            1,868 and 3,089 received
  15. Cement, nat. or Portland:        9,971 and 3,940 received
  16. Gravel and Sand:                       5,101 and 72 received*
  17. Barley and rye:                       12,228 and 308 received. 

 

       *It was 15,397 carloads in 1939, so likely dam construction underway at that time

 

   Gary Laakso

   Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

O Fenton Wells
 

Understand totally, I've been the windshield AND the bug many, many times.
Fenton

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Fenton, Bill, Folks,

Thanks… well, at least I haven’t decaled the car or attached the deck yet… back to the paint shop!  And that oxide red looked so good on it too :(

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 10:10 AM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

You are correct Bill.
Fenton

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 3:42 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.

Bill Welch




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Jim King
 

1 of the photos in my kit’s instructions was a slide of a 41’ flat I shot in Lynchburg VA in the mid-80s.  It still wore brown paint with small Roman lettering (pre-1958/59).  The only difference was a 900000-series MOW number stenciled over the revenue number.  It was dwarfed by a Pettibone rubber-tired crane sitting on its deck.  This was the basis for suggesting to paint the car “boxcar red”.  Not until last year did I find a slide (attached) showing a 41’ car wearing brown paint and an experimental Roman font (see paragraph below).  Despite the dirt, the brown clearly shows thru.  Combined with the lettering, I’d say this car was painted and stenciled around 1958-59.

 

I have diesel stenciling diagrams with August 1957 revisions stating the color change from green to black but retaining the small lettering (which was changed when the Tuxedo scheme appeared a few years later).  The freight car block font we’re used to seeing didn’t start appearing on freight cars until 1959 with delivery of 4000-series covered hoppers.  Silverside gons, built 1960, carried the same style font, just different colors (Vermillion, green, white and black have been documented).  Experimental block lettering appeared on cars in 1958-59, easily distinguishable from the final font that appeared in 1959 as noted above.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

Randy Hees
 

The "D&RGW" stencil may be a journal "repack" date....


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bruce Smith
 

Fenton, Bill, Folks,

Thanks… well, at least I haven’t decaled the car or attached the deck yet… back to the paint shop!  And that oxide red looked so good on it too :(

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 10:10 AM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

You are correct Bill.
Fenton

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 3:42 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.

Bill Welch


Re: Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

Bruce Smith
 

Or brake reservoir test ;)  The D&RGW would indicate that the D&RGW performed the mandated test or service. That would indicate that the photo was taken within a year of 1-31-47.  The date is 1947, not 1942 on the stencil, agreeing with Ray’s 1947 time frame.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Ray Breyer via Groups.Io <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

That photo was taken in Stockton California in 1947, near the very tail end of poultry car operations. Given the size and placement of the stencil, I'd suspect that it's a repack or reweigh date and location. 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Wednesday, July 11, 2018, 10:47:58 AM CDT, Jim Allen <jimp72@...> wrote:


I have really been enjoying and learning alot from this Poultry thread.  I am a D&RGW fan.  You posted a picture of a car.  I blew it up and was looking closely at it.  So here are some more questions.  What is written on the car door?   Under the door, on the sill it has something and then a date.... looks like 1-31-42?  and under that D&RGW as clear as day.   Was that car assigned to the D&RGW?  Serviced by D&RGW?  Owned by D&RGW?  Obviously has some connection to it and or traveled on D&RGW trackage.  

Just trying to understand the markings etc.  I may just have to model one or two of that car!

Thanks for the help and insight.

Jim Allen



--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

Ray Breyer
 

That photo was taken in Stockton California in 1947, near the very tail end of poultry car operations. Given the size and placement of the stencil, I'd suspect that it's a repack or reweigh date and location. 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Wednesday, July 11, 2018, 10:47:58 AM CDT, Jim Allen <jimp72@...> wrote:


I have really been enjoying and learning alot from this Poultry thread.  I am a D&RGW fan.  You posted a picture of a car.  I blew it up and was looking closely at it.  So here are some more questions.  What is written on the car door?   Under the door, on the sill it has something and then a date.... looks like 1-31-42?  and under that D&RGW as clear as day.   Was that car assigned to the D&RGW?  Serviced by D&RGW?  Owned by D&RGW?  Obviously has some connection to it and or traveled on D&RGW trackage.  

Just trying to understand the markings etc.  I may just have to model one or two of that car!

Thanks for the help and insight.

Jim Allen



--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

O Fenton Wells
 

I'm not sure the exact date but close or sometime in 1958.  Or close to that.
Fenton Wells

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Bill

Southern (CNO&TP) Pullman Standard 70 ton hoppers 281000 to 281299 were
delivered in oxide red paint and Roman lettering in 1957. Similar ACF hoppers
delivered in 1953 were (I think) painted black. So the change was in the
1950's but I don't know precisely when it happened. I also don't know the
date of the change to sans-serif letters.

Tim O'Connor



I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.
Bill Welch




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

Southern (CNO&TP) Pullman Standard 70 ton hoppers 281000 to 281299 were
delivered in oxide red paint and Roman lettering in 1957. Similar ACF hoppers
delivered in 1953 were (I think) painted black. So the change was in the
1950's but I don't know precisely when it happened. I also don't know the
date of the change to sans-serif letters.

Tim O'Connor



I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.
Bill Welch


Re: Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

Jim Allen
 

I have really been enjoying and learning alot from this Poultry thread.  I am a D&RGW fan.  You posted a picture of a car.  I blew it up and was looking closely at it.  So here are some more questions.  What is written on the car door?   Under the door, on the sill it has something and then a date.... looks like 1-31-42?  and under that D&RGW as clear as day.   Was that car assigned to the D&RGW?  Serviced by D&RGW?  Owned by D&RGW?  Obviously has some connection to it and or traveled on D&RGW trackage.  

Just trying to understand the markings etc.  I may just have to model one or two of that car!

Thanks for the help and insight.

Jim Allen



--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

Jim Allen
 

How far west do you think these cars went?


Jim


Sent from my LG Escape2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Tim O'Connor
 


They can't both be. In "outside length" they are listed as

  115000 to 116599 were 40ft 11in
  116600 to 116849 were 41ft 4in
  116850 to 117999 were 42ft 4in

Tim O'Connor



Are these two photos from the design being discussed?

Attachments:


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

O Fenton Wells
 

You might want to check the Red Caboose car.  I have never done this as I purchased enough from Gary Wright.  But that was where I was going if I couldn't find the resin kits.  Some bashing may be in order depending on how close you want to come to the SR car.
Fenton Wells

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 12:52 AM, Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...> wrote:
Group,

It was suggested that the kits might be more easily available through DesPlaines Hobbies. They do not have this kit on their inventory. Right now I am in a buy mode for kits as my stash seems small enough to finish in a reasonable time. Any other thoughts on a getting a copy?  As a B&O modeler I am also looking for a copy of the resin “gon” the B&ORRHS sold, maybe an O-24 class, that has a similar look to the Southern flat car with sides. Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD (not a town with a PO anymore, but a place forever on the PRR NCR)





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

O Fenton Wells
 

You are correct Bill.
Fenton

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 3:42 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.

Bill Welch




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bruce Smith
 

Let me clarify ;)

#117644 is  COMPOSITE GONDOLA based on the same flat car as the series being discussed.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 8:25 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Bill,

Nope.  

#117644 is a later class that is very similar 41’6” flat
#115848 is an earlier 40’ car. Note that the sill steps are attached to the side and not the bottom of the sill

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 2:39 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Are these two photos from the design being discussed? <wood side gon 117644 .tif><flat car 115848 .tif>



Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

Nope.  

#117644 is a later class that is very similar 41’6” flat
#115848 is an earlier 40’ car. Note that the sill steps are attached to the side and not the bottom of the sill

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 2:39 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Are these two photos from the design being discussed? <wood side gon 117644 .tif><flat car 115848 .tif>


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bill Welch
 

I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.

Bill Welch

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