Date   
Re: [STMFC] Atlantic & East Carolina 1937 AAR Boxcar

John Barry
 

Eich,

. . . Because it is written . . .Good story!
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] [STMFC] Atlantic & East Carolina 1937 AAR Boxcar

Jim:

Thanks for the good info on an uncommon box car!

Actually, the cars never left Southern ownership. They were repainted and lettered for the A&EC but never “lost” their Southern numbers. It is too small to read, but the lettering in the upper right of the attached photo says “Sou Rwy Owner 10663”. Many of these were rebuilt back to Southern paint in various programs. (I cannot read the number on your model. If you’ll let me know what it is, I’ll look up it’s Southern numbers before and after its A&EC service…although not all of the 1937 cars were rebuilt.)

The photo of A&EC 929 was taken in the warehouse area at Camp Lejeune, NC in early 1968. Most of the A&EC cars appeared to have been stored there at that time. Both the ACL and Southern served Camp Lejune then. The tracks are still active in another part of Lejeune for inbound coal and where equipment is loaded on DODX flat cars for long haul shipment or to be loaded on US Navy ships at Moorhead City.

I discovered this trove of cars (too many to see or count) as I was in the area to renew my USMC truck driving permit…which I failed!  There were multiple places where the tracks had been removed with only the rails still in the pavement. True, the PFC conducting the test told me to stop at all railroad crossings along the route. Being around railroads most of my life, I knew NO train would be crossing at those locations but the Private (I was a Sgt.) had been told they were “crossings” so that was that.

Ike




Re: USRA Cabooses

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi Seth,

    The Boston & Maine had noting really close to any USRA designed cabeese.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: [STMFC] Atlantic & East Carolina 1937 AAR Boxcar

George Eichelberger
 

Jim:

Thanks for the good info on an uncommon box car!

Actually, the cars never left Southern ownership. They were repainted and lettered for the A&EC but never “lost” their Southern numbers. It is too small to read, but the lettering in the upper right of the attached photo says “Sou Rwy Owner 10663”. Many of these were rebuilt back to Southern paint in various programs. (I cannot read the number on your model. If you’ll let me know what it is, I’ll look up it’s Southern numbers before and after its A&EC service…although not all of the 1937 cars were rebuilt.)

The photo of A&EC 929 was taken in the warehouse area at Camp Lejeune, NC in early 1968. Most of the A&EC cars appeared to have been stored there at that time. Both the ACL and Southern served Camp Lejune then. The tracks are still active in another part of Lejeune for inbound coal and where equipment is loaded on DODX flat cars for long haul shipment or to be loaded on US Navy ships at Moorhead City.

I discovered this trove of cars (too many to see or count) as I was in the area to renew my USMC truck driving permit…which I failed!  There were multiple places where the tracks had been removed with only the rails still in the pavement. True, the PFC conducting the test told me to stop at all railroad crossings along the route. Being around railroads most of my life, I knew NO train would be crossing at those locations but the Private (I was a Sgt.) had been told they were “crossings” so that was that.

Ike


Re: USRA Cabooses

James E Kubanick
 

Lake Erie Franklin & Clarion (LEF&C) too.

Jim Kubanick


On Monday, July 30, 2018 8:03 PM, Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...> wrote:


GTNE and St J LC ex CV.Armand Premo


Re: USRA Cabooses

Armand Premo
 

GTNE and St J LC ex CV.Armand Premo

Re: USRA Cabooses

Paul Koehler
 

Bill:

 

The overland RF&P caboose is correct for the PE.  Check the Copeland PE book for pictures.

 

Paul C. Koehler

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 4:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] USRA Cabooses

 

I photograhed severl of the Pacific Eectric cabooses at the Orange Empire Rail Museum (Paris, Ca) about ten years ago.

I don't know if these were the same cars as at Pomona. 

 

This raises a question.  It was thought that the cars that PE purchased were allq wood cars.  One of the cars in the book that Garth referenced was definitly steel.  I have never been able to get any information on this.  I have an Overland RP&F steel caboose that I would like to finish as PE but am concerned

as to the accuracy.

 

Bill Pardie

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>

Date: 7/30/18 12:49 PM (GMT-10:00)

To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] USRA Cabooses

 

Seth,

The RF&P had cabooses which appear to be USRA or clones. I have no information about them, except that in 1950 several were sold to the Pacific Electric. Ira Swett's CARS OF PACIFIC ELECTRIC, Vol. 3 has photos of three, said in the rather random text to be the last cabooses purchased outright for the PE. The text does not tell us how many, but there are photos of 1977, 1981 and 1984. They were in a series of used eastern cars of other designs which went as high as 1985 (1975 is an ex-LV car with an offset cupola), so it is likely there were at least 9 ex-RF&P cars, 1977-1985. Whether 1976 was a USRA car I can't say, but there might have been 10. The cars differ from the Clinchfield caboose Bill showed us in that they had passenger-type steps. 1977 and 1978 were preserved at the Pomona fairgrounds back in the 1960s (I have two photos, among of my earliest), but I have no idea if they still survive.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 7/30/18 4:54 PM, Seth Lakin via Groups.Io wrote:

A question for the group. I have not had any luck finding a roster of USRA and USRA copy wood cabooses. 

I know the following roads had them and a partial list of numbers. 
Boston & Maine ?-?
Central Vermont 4050-4052
Pittsburgh & Shawmut 163-167
Ulster & Delaware 641-650 became
New York Central 20090-20099

Can anyone add to the list. 

Thanks
Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN

Re: USRA Cabooses

Charles Tapper
 

Pittsburgh and West Virginia had wood USRA-style cabooses before they acquired steel cars.  Caboose 804 looks like it is. I don't have my resources handy, but I'm thinking at least 804-812 could be USRA wood cars. The P&WV had some others with straight coupola sides that look like USRA cars otherwise, from photos 802 is such a car.  If I do any of these I will use the F&C kit.

Lehigh and Hudson River had them as well.

Charlie Tapper


On Monday, July 30, 2018, 6:06:40 PM CDT, Dave Parker via Groups.Io <spottab@...> wrote:


Seth, I am not familiar with that article, nor the photo.  The B&M did have some shorter wood-body cabooses, usually (always?) with three windows.  Their resemblance to the USRA cars seems pretty distant to me eye.

Google up "B&M caboose 104610" and see what you think.  It is currently on display in White River Jct.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Re: USRA Cabooses

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I photograhed severl of the Pacific Eectric cabooses at the Orange Empire Rail Museum (Paris, Ca) about ten years ago.
I don't know if these were the same cars as at Pomona. 

This raises a question.  It was thought that the cars that PE purchased were allq wood cars.  One of the cars in the book that Garth referenced was definitly steel.  I have never been able to get any information on this.  I have an Overland RP&F steel caboose that I would like to finish as PE but am concerned
as to the accuracy.

Bill Pardie

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Date: 7/30/18 12:49 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] USRA Cabooses

Seth,

The RF&P had cabooses which appear to be USRA or clones. I have no information about them, except that in 1950 several were sold to the Pacific Electric. Ira Swett's CARS OF PACIFIC ELECTRIC, Vol. 3 has photos of three, said in the rather random text to be the last cabooses purchased outright for the PE. The text does not tell us how many, but there are photos of 1977, 1981 and 1984. They were in a series of used eastern cars of other designs which went as high as 1985 (1975 is an ex-LV car with an offset cupola), so it is likely there were at least 9 ex-RF&P cars, 1977-1985. Whether 1976 was a USRA car I can't say, but there might have been 10. The cars differ from the Clinchfield caboose Bill showed us in that they had passenger-type steps. 1977 and 1978 were preserved at the Pomona fairgrounds back in the 1960s (I have two photos, among of my earliest), but I have no idea if they still survive.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 7/30/18 4:54 PM, Seth Lakin via Groups.Io wrote:
A question for the group. I have not had any luck finding a roster of USRA and USRA copy wood cabooses. 

I know the following roads had them and a partial list of numbers. 
Boston & Maine ?-?
Central Vermont 4050-4052
Pittsburgh & Shawmut 163-167
Ulster & Delaware 641-650 became
New York Central 20090-20099

Can anyone add to the list. 

Thanks
Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN
_._,_._,_

Re: Funaro & Camerlengo 1008 40' Boxcar NP 1918

lrkdbn
 

You should note that the F&C car is correct with straight draft sills. The 1918 cars did not have the fishbelly center sills. They were built to save steel during WW1. There is an article about them in (I think) "Railway Review" I can look it up if you're interested. There are also  drawings in the 1922 CBD.
Sincerely,
Larry King

Re: USRA Cabooses

Dave Parker
 

Seth, I am not familiar with that article, nor the photo.  The B&M did have some shorter wood-body cabooses, usually (always?) with three windows.  Their resemblance to the USRA cars seems pretty distant to me eye.

Google up "B&M caboose 104610" and see what you think.  It is currently on display in White River Jct.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Re: USRA Cabooses

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Seth,

The RF&P had cabooses which appear to be USRA or clones. I have no information about them, except that in 1950 several were sold to the Pacific Electric. Ira Swett's CARS OF PACIFIC ELECTRIC, Vol. 3 has photos of three, said in the rather random text to be the last cabooses purchased outright for the PE. The text does not tell us how many, but there are photos of 1977, 1981 and 1984. They were in a series of used eastern cars of other designs which went as high as 1985 (1975 is an ex-LV car with an offset cupola), so it is likely there were at least 9 ex-RF&P cars, 1977-1985. Whether 1976 was a USRA car I can't say, but there might have been 10. The cars differ from the Clinchfield caboose Bill showed us in that they had passenger-type steps. 1977 and 1978 were preserved at the Pomona fairgrounds back in the 1960s (I have two photos, among of my earliest), but I have no idea if they still survive.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 7/30/18 4:54 PM, Seth Lakin via Groups.Io wrote:
A question for the group. I have not had any luck finding a roster of USRA and USRA copy wood cabooses. 

I know the following roads had them and a partial list of numbers. 
Boston & Maine ?-?
Central Vermont 4050-4052
Pittsburgh & Shawmut 163-167
Ulster & Delaware 641-650 became
New York Central 20090-20099

Can anyone add to the list. 

Thanks
Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN
_._,_._,_

Re: Funaro & Camerlengo 1008 40' Boxcar NP 1918

Tim O'Connor
 


My notes on that photo say it is Northtown Yard, Minneapolis, in 1958. I think
the info came from the Ebay seller.



I built this kit years ago but kit-bashed it adding a fishbelly center sill to model the attached, now offered by Yarmouth. My memory is that it went together well and had a good rendition of the NP radial roof. I used a Microscale set of decals and a reddish brown BCR paint.

Bill Welch

Attachments:

Re: [STMFC] Atlantic & East Carolina 1937 AAR Boxcar

James Brewer
 

I obtained two factory decorated A&EC boxcars as I'm always on the lookout for some “y'all” road freight equipment to add to my N&W Shenandoah Valley line model railroad.

I consulted Ed Hawkins' chart on 1937 AAR boxcars and learned these cars were obtained from Southern Railway and had four alternating rivets per side sheet for mounting interior vertical members to facilitate side lining. Bill Welch pointed out there were also rivets on the ends of the car. Ed was also kind enough to supply a prototype photo and mentioned plans for these cars could be found in Southern Railway Equipment Drawings and Photographs, Volume 1, Book 1, 40' Steel Boxcars, published by SRHA. As luck would have it I owned this book having purchased it at the Cocoa Beach bash several years ago. The drawings for the side and end of the car showed the additional rivet locations.

I removed the cast on side and end grab irons, as well as the ladder rungs. I left the cast on stiles, retainer, retainer line, brake housing, brake step and brake rod. In hind sight, had I been able to find decals I would have substituted InterMountain or Red Caboose ends which would have allowed use of better details.

There is no rivet detail on the ends of the Yardmaster cars. There should be a strip of rivets at the very bottom of the end, as well as in the middle where the two sheets are joined together. I added these rivets with decals from MicroMark.

I drilled four holes per side sheet and used Tichy .020 rivets. I used Plastruct .010 styrene rod for the ladder rungs, and Tichy 18 inch drop grabs for the sides and ends. A-Line Style B sill steps, Kadee Miner Hand brake and Plano Morton Running Board were used based on the information in Ed's reference chart. I had a terrible time with the latitudinals in mounting the board to the brass frame and then to the car. Detail Associatates uncoupling levers were added on each end.

Ed had pointed out in the photo he sent the trust plate on the car had been removed since the cars were paid for, but the mounting rivets were still visible. I again used Tichy .020 rivets to add this detail on each car.

I used Tahoe Model Works 40 Ton ARA trucks.

Thanks to all to offered information and suggestions on these cars.

Jim Brewer



On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Bill

Also note that the cars were not all built at the same time. I have clear
shots that show build dates 1938 to 1941, and a couple of cars with shop dates
of 1957 - although most of them are from 1954. So they were not all leased
at the same time.

The 1938 cars have S-corner ends, while some later cars have W-corner ends! All
of the cars have those Southern Rwy stencils, so it seems clear these cars came
from the Southern, which owned both the early and later 1937 AAR cars.

The cars remained on the A&EC a long time. In July 1972 there were still two of
them on the roster.

Tim O'Connor




Before I looked through my photo albums where I have several photos of these cars I checked my computer and son-of-a-gun there were three: 1045, 1015 and 1039 from Vancouver. All appear to be freshly painted and have reweigh dates of either 2-54 or 3-54 so I think it is safe to say it was around that date that the A&EC either acquired or leased these cars. Further to the left of the ladder fairly high on the side is stenciled "Southern Ry. Co. Spencer" with waht appears to be a January 1954 paint date.

Years ago Des Plaines did custom kits of these cars using the then IMWX kit.

Bill Welch

__._,_.___

Posted by: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (9)

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__,_._,___

Re: USRA Cabooses

Seth Lakin
 

Dave, according to the Gordon Odegard article in the Jan 79 MR the B&M did. There is a photo of a B&M car but I could make out the number and was unable to find anymore photos of B&M cars on the few websites I visited. 

Seth

Re: USRA Cabooses

Bill Welch
 

Clinchfield owned several w/their own unique steps. I bought two F&C kits to build models. Sorry but do not have time right now to enumerate. I do have photos of three numbers, 1020, 1021, and 1029. I do not know why but Clinchfield USRA hoppers and cabooses used CC&O reporting marks well into the 1950's and maybe beyond.

Bill Welch

Re: USRA Cabooses

Dave Parker
 

Seth:

I don't recall ever hearing any of the B&M cabooses referred to as "USRA".  I am some distance away from my copy of the late Tim Gilbert's book on the B&M's cabeese, but I'll try to remember to double-check it in about a week.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Re: USRA Cabooses

Roger Huber
 

Maryland & Pennsylvania 2007

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Monday, July 30, 2018, 3:55:09 PM CDT, Seth Lakin via Groups.Io <lakinsa@...> wrote:


A question for the group. I have not had any luck finding a roster of USRA and USRA copy wood cabooses. 

I know the following roads had them and a partial list of numbers. 
Boston & Maine ?-?
Central Vermont 4050-4052
Pittsburgh & Shawmut 163-167
Ulster & Delaware 641-650 became
New York Central 20090-20099

Can anyone add to the list. 

Thanks
Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN

USRA Cabooses

Seth Lakin
 

A question for the group. I have not had any luck finding a roster of USRA and USRA copy wood cabooses. 

I know the following roads had them and a partial list of numbers. 
Boston & Maine ?-?
Central Vermont 4050-4052
Pittsburgh & Shawmut 163-167
Ulster & Delaware 641-650 became
New York Central 20090-20099

Can anyone add to the list. 

Thanks
Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN

Re: Replacement for Floquil ATSF Mineral Brown

Bob Werre
 

I recently helped a family sell off a narrow gauge modeler's stuff.  Of course, I ended buying some items.  To that end I ended up with some un-opened bottles of Floquil.  I was hoping to trade with someone so I could keeping using them as a group.  I've inquired on a couple of mailing lists without response, so now I'll sell them as a group or individually.  I believe I do have several 'freight car' colors. I also have a few bottles of Driftwood stain too.  Contact me: Bob@...

Re: Funaro & Camerlengo 1008 40' Boxcar NP 1918

Bill Welch
 

I built this kit years ago but kit-bashed it adding a fishbelly center sill to model the attached, now offered by Yarmouth. My memory is that it went together well and had a good rendition of the NP radial roof. I used a Microscale set of decals and a reddish brown BCR paint.

Bill Welch