Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] ratios

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

I may be repeating myself, so bear with me:

My analysis of PRR, P&LE, B&O, P&WV, Montour, McKeesport Connecting, Mon Con, Allegheny & South Side, PAM, P&OV and others in the Pittsburgh area, and extending outwards on mains and branches, for the time period between WW2 and late sixties revealed the following things:

1) Ratios do not apply there;

2) Traffic (therefore, car types), varies dramatically between every medium to large sized yard; i.e., between every major marshalling or classification yard, down to local "transfer" yards working blocks.

3) Some reaches of railroad are absolutely dominated by one car type (ask me for photos off-list if interested), based on customers served;

4) Every set-out/pick-up point influences the train consist thereafter, some very dramatically;

5) NYC strongly influences car type and ownership on the P≤

6) The "Alphabet" roads strongly influence car type and reporting marks on the P&WV (repeated NKP or WAB ownership and car type for example);

7) B&O is strongly influenced by lack of servicable cars during certain periods, and C&O influences;

8) PRR had dramatically different numbers of home road cars vs foreign, during periods very close to one another (think 40/60 to 60/40 over less than 5 years), very strong retirement and rebuilding campaign influences on classes and car types, and also showed significant presence of "favorite" (not as big as "partner") railroads.

9) Montour, McKCon, A&SS, PAM and P&OV are absolutely dominated by their major industry(ies).

I am not talking just minor changes over time and space. I mean MAJOR differences over both time and location. Ratios have no place in that area during that time span.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Daniels via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:30 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] ratios

One of the things that will skew those numbers of home road cars was the fact that the PRR was one of the largest coal and iron ore carriers in the country, and had a fleet of hopper cars literally second to none dedicated to this service. These cars were pretty much in captive service, so they alone would tend to skew the numbers of home road cars staying on home rails.

Bill Daniels


Re: ratios

Bruce Smith
 

Of course, I model 1944, and a fair amount of tidewater coal was being shipped to New England by rail because of the U-boat threat. On the PRR, “unit” trains of N&W hoppers would come up the Cumberland Valley Branch from Hagerstown Md to Harrisburg PA and then move north and east on the A&S and Trenton cutoff. There was also substantial C&O hopper traffic over the PRR to the great lakes, even after WWII.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Aug 8, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Bill Daniels via Groups.Io <billinsf@...> wrote:

One of the things that will skew those numbers of home road cars was the fact that the PRR was one of the largest coal and iron ore carriers in the country, and had a fleet of hopper cars literally second to none dedicated to this service. These cars were pretty much in captive service, so they alone would tend to skew the numbers of home road cars staying on home rails.

Bill Daniels





Re: ratios

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

One of the things that will skew those numbers of home road cars was the fact that the PRR was one of the largest coal and iron ore carriers in the country, and had a fleet of hopper cars literally second to none dedicated to this service. These cars were pretty much in captive service, so they alone would tend to skew the numbers of home road cars staying on home rails.

Bill Daniels


Re: DECAL SAVER

Nelson Moyer
 

I just finished applying Speedwitch decals to a PRR gondola, and I used Micro Set rather than Micro Sol successfully without having to coat first with LDF. All of the decal pieces were small, and if they were bigger, e.g. Everywhere West on a CB&Q box car, I would have coated them first with LDF. Another thing with thin decals, place them accurately and don’t move them around very much. As to setting solution, a little dab will do until they dry, then go back as many times as necessary to settle them down and remove any air bubbles. I use Micro Sol once the first couple of Micro Set applications have dried. The text size on the repack and air reservoir data is very small, and I needed a 10x jeweler’s loop to read the dates.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 2:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DECAL SAVER

 

Some of the Speedwitch decals are on very thin film and the Microscale LDF to keep them in onepiece as well as with older Microscale decals.

Bill Welch


Re: Hog Fuel

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Not saying this is wrong, since ground up bark can well be a part of “Hog Fuel”, but in mills I’ve visited ALL the “slash” (odd pieces of wood) produced in the cutting proccess is sent (usually by conveyors) to the “hog” to be ground up. Bark would be only a small fraction of the wood being ground up. Also many smaller mills did not have the bark-stripping water jets. On reason the logs were put in the ponds in the first place was to soak off the dirt and rocks lodged in the bark, and to loosen the bark. The floating logs (some sink) were also easier to move about and feed into the mill’s jackslip.

It is common for old log ponds and rivers to have many feet of rotting bark at their bottoms. It’s sometimes a problem when trying to backfill the ponds for redevelopment. The crud won’t support things built upon it. The solution is to either dredge out the material, or drive piles clear through it.

With modern log-handling machinery ponds are hardly ever used anymore, and far more powerful mechanical "debarking” machinery is used. 
 
Dan Mitchell
==========

On Aug 8, 2018, at 1:37 AM, Jim Sabol <jimsabol@...> wrote:

The hogger is that part of the mill’s jackslip (the approach from the log pond to the saw carriage in the mill interior) which shoots water at great force onto the entering log in order to dislodge rocks, spikes, and other debris caught in the bark that  wpuld be harmful to the sawblades.  The bark thus dislodged is therefore, “hogged” and, in some mills, provides fuel for the boilers.  The more finely chopped bark is also used by landscapers and ranchers to improve  footing in muddy areas. Most speakers drop the “ed” resulting in the half-term, hog fuel, just as some persons hear “duck” tape for duct tape.  Neither hog fuel nor hogged fuel has anything to do with feeding pigs.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 


Re: Champ Sinclair decals

Schleigh Mike
 

I believe never, Clark----

Silver was the color always associated with the large SINCLAIR stenciling.  If otherwise, those decals are the only evidence I have ever seen.

In Grove City, Penna.    Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 12:09:20 AM EDT, Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:


Just noticed my set of Champ Sinclair tank car decals are white. If they are correct, what was the time period they were used?
Thanks!
Clark Propst


Re: ratios

anthony wagner
 

Armand, Bruce, et al, In the Jan 1995 Mainline Modler there was an article by John Nehrich about freight car distribution and as part of that article he included a very interesting table dated April 1950 of Freight Operating Statistics of Large Steam Railways compiled by the Bureau of Transportation Economics & Statistics of the ICC. The list included 40 roads and the columns included Freight Cars on Line divided between Home and Foreign, Percent Bad Order, Road Locos on Line broken down into Unstored and Stored and Percent Bad Order. I have not run percentages of home vs foreign but in looking at the table it appears  that some roads such as MILW, IC, MP, PRR, and UP had very close to a 50% ratio of home vs foreign cars while many others appeared to have either had a large ratios of home cars or conversly foreign cars. For modelers it seems to me that it depends on what road is being modeled as to what that ratio should be. For me modeling the Pennsy in 1949 in north central PA the 50-50 ratio means that house cars were probably in the 60-70% foreign range while open tops were more like 30% foreign but that is just a guess based on many assumptions about the nature of the traffic, nearby connections, and local industry any of which could easily be incorrect. But, IMO, you've got to start somewhere. It can always be changed if more information surfaces. Tony Wagner


On Tuesday, August 7, 2018 11:50 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Haha… my mail handler thought this was junk mail… maybe a message in that, eh Armand?

Maybe you’re forgetting because we haven’t had a discussion of this in the past few weeks to months, but it has come up here with frequency and our archives are full of information.

And you know, just a few days ago, I was looking into a much simpler stat… home road cars on home rails, since the accepted standard for the PRR was around 50%.  However the data for Eastern Region in 1944, iirc, was in the mid 30% range and most importantly, the data for hopper cars was very similar to box cars and both were in the 30% range.  That’s a huge difference from my expectations which were that hoppers would be about 75% home road. Now, that’s not strictly PRR, because it is the total for the entire region, but the PRR, as one of the biggest members of that region, should look pretty similar to the region numbers. I’m going to need a LOT more foreign hoppers!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Aug 7, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...> wrote:

I am perhaps overly obsessed with freight car ratios by era ,by type and,by road.We pride ourselves with accurately detailed models,yet ignore the fact that the modeled car may not have existed in the period we are modeling Such things as number of wooden cars  to steel  cars in a consist for a given era.This may be trivial to many modelers,but if we profess.to be prototypical, I suggest that more consideration be given to ratios.Armand Premo




Re: Hog Fuel

Jim Sabol
 

The hogger is that part of the mill’s jackslip (the approach from the log pond to the saw carriage in the mill interior) which shoots water at great force onto the entering log in order to dislodge rocks, spikes, and other debris caught in the bark that  wpuld be harmful to the sawblades.  The bark thus dislodged is therefore, “hogged” and, in some mills, provides fuel for the boilers.  The more finely chopped bark is also used by landscapers and ranchers to improve  footing in muddy areas. Most speakers drop the “ed” resulting in the half-term, hog fuel, just as some persons hear “duck” tape for duct tape.  Neither hog fuel nor hogged fuel has anything to do with feeding pigs.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Champ Sinclair decals

Clark Propst
 

Just noticed my set of Champ Sinclair tank car decals are white. If they are correct, what was the time period they were used?
Thanks!
Clark Propst


Re: 2018 Shake'n'Take project - ERIE 95000 series double door box car

Tony Thompson
 

I haven't started my kit yet, so I would like to get those ends. Guess procrastination paid off for once!
Tony Thompson 


On Aug 7, 2018, at 7:35 PM, Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

All,

 

A sharp-eyed participant in the Shake’n’Take project this year noticed that the ends supplied by Intermountain Railway Company are not the correct ends.  The CAR is correct, but the ENDS are not.  Evidently when the 36 kits they supplied for the Shake’n’Take clinic were packed the wrong ends were put in the kit boxes.

 

If you have finished the car with the supplied ends . . . I’m sorry. I’m REALLY sorry.

 

I intend to ask Intermountain to supply the correct ends, and assuming they will make good on this, I will mail out the correct ends to each participant.  I retained the emails of those who signed up for the clinic, but if you have a kit and need the correct ends, I would appreciate your sending me OFF LIST your mailing address.

 

My deepest apologies for this SNAFU.  I hope I can make it all right.

 

Schuyler Larrabee.


2018 Shake'n'Take project - ERIE 95000 series double door box car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

All,

 

A sharp-eyed participant in the Shake’n’Take project this year noticed that the ends supplied by Intermountain Railway Company are not the correct ends.  The CAR is correct, but the ENDS are not.  Evidently when the 36 kits they supplied for the Shake’n’Take clinic were packed the wrong ends were put in the kit boxes.

 

If you have finished the car with the supplied ends . . . I’m sorry. I’m REALLY sorry.

 

I intend to ask Intermountain to supply the correct ends, and assuming they will make good on this, I will mail out the correct ends to each participant.  I retained the emails of those who signed up for the clinic, but if you have a kit and need the correct ends, I would appreciate your sending me OFF LIST your mailing address.

 

My deepest apologies for this SNAFU.  I hope I can make it all right.

 

Schuyler Larrabee.


Re: Crates

Tim O'Connor
 

Jared

My first thought - they look like 3D prints.

My second thought - they're about the same size as the RESIN castings
from N SCALE of NEVADA, who made some really fine looking lumber loads
and boxes and cable reels for HO scale.

Tim O'Connor



Groups,

I just scanned the two crates that I got from a  vendor at Collinsville that I cannot identify.
He took cash and checks only.

Jared Harper

Attachments:


Crates

Jared Harper
 

Groups,

I just scanned the two crates that I got from a  vendor at Collinsville that I cannot identify.  He took cash and checks only.

Jared Harper


Re: Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1

Bill Keene
 

Mike,

I could use a New Haven car. Do not yet have one in the fleet, Come to think about it… I am also lacking a Lackawanna car. 

Right now it is too hot to work out in the garage where the work bench is located. Maybe this winter during times I get  bored building the layout. 

Cheers
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Aug 7, 2018, at 12:35 PM, MDelvec952 via Groups.Io <MDelvec952@...> wrote:



Will fill some needs, nice. 

Bill Keene, how about starting to kitbash a 10' IH version to move that up on the Kadee list?  

Many of the features are common to this one.  New Haven and Lackawanna had close to the entire production of them. (Asked and answered...)

                          ....Mike Del Vecchio




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 7, 2018 3:18 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1

Yup! Another perfect example of start a kit bash project on your work bench and about the time you have completed the “bash” someone will produce a BX-52 in a better model than my modest modeling skills will accomplish. 

OK. Where is my royalty check?

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Aug 7, 2018, at 12:09 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I got an email from Kadee on this question with a flyer attached.   It shows all the changes for what they call the "pre-1950" model.

Check it out:

https://kadee.com/html/pre50_PS-1.pdf

S Kay



Re: Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1

MDelvec952
 



Will fill some needs, nice. 

Bill Keene, how about starting to kitbash a 10' IH version to move that up on the Kadee list?  

Many of the features are common to this one.  New Haven and Lackawanna had close to the entire production of them. (Asked and answered...)

                          ....Mike Del Vecchio




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 7, 2018 3:18 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1

Yup! Another perfect example of start a kit bash project on your work bench and about the time you have completed the “bash” someone will produce a BX-52 in a better model than my modest modeling skills will accomplish. 

OK. Where is my royalty check?

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Aug 7, 2018, at 12:09 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I got an email from Kadee on this question with a flyer attached.   It shows all the changes for what they call the "pre-1950" model.

Check it out:

https://kadee.com/html/pre50_PS-1.pdf

S Kay


Re: Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1

Tim O'Connor
 


Thanks for sharing that. But why call the "retainer" valve an "AB" valve? I've
never seen that term applied to that valve before. After all, retainers were also
used for KC and KD brakes and have been used since AB gear itself became obsolete.

No mention is made of the new brake wheels and housings and new running boards,
which I'm sure has lots of folks even more excited than the box cars! :-)

Tim



I got an email from Kadee on this question with a flyer attached.   It shows all the changes for what they call the "pre-1950" model.

Check it out:

https://kadee.com/html/pre50_PS-1.pdf

S Kay


Re: Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1

Bill Keene
 

Yup! Another perfect example of start a kit bash project on your work bench and about the time you have completed the “bash” someone will produce a BX-52 in a better model than my modest modeling skills will accomplish. 

OK. Where is my royalty check?

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Aug 7, 2018, at 12:09 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I got an email from Kadee on this question with a flyer attached.   It shows all the changes for what they call the "pre-1950" model.

Check it out:

https://kadee.com/html/pre50_PS-1.pdf

S Kay


Re: Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1

StephenK
 

I got an email from Kadee on this question with a flyer attached.   It shows all the changes for what they call the "pre-1950" model.

Check it out:

https://kadee.com/html/pre50_PS-1.pdf

S Kay


Re: Kadee SR boxcar future release

Tim O'Connor
 


  Yes.


Is the upcoming (February 2019) release of the SR 40' boxcar a new version?  I'm assuming it's using the new body style of the soon to be released ATSF 1947 style???
https://kadee.com/ca/futurecars.htm
Curt Fortenberry


Re: DECAL SAVER

Bill Welch
 

Some of the Speedwitch decals are on very thin film and the Microscale LDF to keep them in onepiece as well as with older Microscale decals.

Bill Welch

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