Date   

Accurail 41' Gondola List

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Attached is the list Bill Welch and Martin Loftin prepared, posted with Bill's O.K.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


Re: MKT box car

Paul Doggett
 

That’s really nice Bill.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 14 Aug 2018, at 20:35, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Here is the MKT model I have done using the Speedwitch kit. Paint is Badger Modelflex MKT Chrome Yellow applied w/Badger 155 AB at 20 psi. I will use this on the MKT War Emergency car I am building too.

Note the square brake staff on the "B" end.

Frankly I do not have the courage or will to weather my model to the extent the prototype photo Tim shared but will use it for pointers.

Bill Welch

Attachments:


Re: MKT box car

Bill Welch
 

Here is the MKT model I have done using the Speedwitch kit. Paint is Badger Modelflex MKT Chrome Yellow applied w/Badger 155 AB at 20 psi. I will use this on the MKT War Emergency car I am building too.

Note the square brake staff on the "B" end.

Frankly I do not have the courage or will to weather my model to the extent the prototype photo Tim shared but will use it for pointers.

Bill Welch


1948 PS-1 for P&WV

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ed and gang;

Do you know if Kadee is planning on doing the PS-1 they did for P&WV? It appears the P&WV cars differ from the ATSF cars in that they have the "wide panel at the tack boards" Superior doors, but in most ways are the same.

And do you know if they came as-built in the "no logo" scheme with red sides & roof and black ends? The as-built photo looks like it, but I never know until someone who knows better tells me.

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP container gons

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thank you, Bill! Did you do a full load, or one of the 9 container versions?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of william darnaby
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 1:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP container gons

I did one several years ago for Martin Lofton when the 46' gon kit first came out. The Walthers containers work very nicely.


Bill Darnaby


________________________________

From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: "realstmfc@groups.io" <realstmfc@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 9:08 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NKP container gons


Gang;


Have any of you done a NKP container gon, specifically the ones with containers for powdered dolomite? I think Sunshine did a kit of the car; what did you use for containers?


Thanks!


Elden Gatwood


Re: NKP container gons

william darnaby
 

I did one several years ago for Martin Lofton when the 46' gon kit first came out.  The Walthers containers work very nicely.

Bill Darnaby



From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: "realstmfc@groups.io" <realstmfc@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 9:08 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NKP container gons

Gang;

Have any of you done a NKP container gon, specifically the ones with containers for powdered dolomite?  I think Sunshine did a kit of the car; what did you use for containers?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood






Re: brake hose brackets, etc.

Nelson Moyer
 

Ah yes, my dyslexia strikes again. Thank you for the correction.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 11:23 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets, etc.

 

Nelson Moyer wrote:



Formula 506 Canopy Glue from Pacer. Dries clear, and a little dab will do. You’ll find it at any hobby shop that caters to model airplane enthusiasts.

 

   Um, no, it's actually Formula 560. And nowadays, progressive model railroad shops carry it too.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: brake hose brackets, etc.

Tony Thompson
 

Jon Miller wrote:

And I'm not sure which is the latest but I have one bottle, green label from ZAP canopy glue with formula 560 under that.


         Pacer Technology sells canopy glue under both the Pacer and Zap names. Same stuff. For some background, including the foregoing observation and photos of glue bottles, you might like to read my post about canopy glue, which is at this link:


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: brake hose brackets, etc.

Jon Miller
 

On 8/14/2018 9:22 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:

   Um, no, it's actually Formula 560. And nowadays, progressive model railroad shops carry it too.

And I'm not sure which is the latest but I have one bottle, green label from ZAP canopy glue with formula 560 under that.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: brake hose brackets, etc.

Tony Thompson
 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

Formula 506 Canopy Glue from Pacer. Dries clear, and a little dab will do. You’ll find it at any hobby shop that caters to model airplane enthusiasts.

   Um, no, it's actually Formula 560. And nowadays, progressive model railroad shops carry it too.

Tony Thompson




Re: brake hose brackets, etc.

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 08:00 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
Dennis Storzek then drew up, machined, and generously provided the fine pattern for the PSC casting that we now enjoy. I negotiated with PSC for development of the castings and the resulting agreement to include the part into their standard line.
Thanks for the kind words, Doc. I might mention, one of the points of resistance to adding a part to a line like PSC, or cast white metal for that matter, is they need more than one pattern to go into production. Yes, they CAN work from a single pattern, replicating it in house by casting single parts until they have enough "sub masters", but it's a lot more work, and the finished parts will have an extra generation of casting shrinkage, if that matters (not that it really does on these parts). I think I was able to help things along by providing ten or twelve complete patterns, which eased the pain of going right to production.

Just food for thought for anyone else contemplating commissioning a new part.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Accurail gondola

al_brown03
 

There's a spreadsheet in the Files section entitled "Accurail 41' gon".

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Accurail gondola

Bill Welch
 

I do not remember doing such a list, sorry Garth. The Accurail gon is a good representation of the AAR gon. Here is my Georgia version under construction substituting Detail Associates Improved Dreadnaught ends. Also two photos in Primmer. I will post finished photos as soon as I find them.

Bill Welch


Re: brake hose brackets, etc.

Schleigh Mike
 

Thank you Denny, Dennis, and Mont---

Nice legacy for the future!

Regards from Grove City, Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018, 11:00:11 AM EDT, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:


Since their inception, I have used the HiTech hoses in wholesale numbers for years in a variety of installations and to my knowledge I have never had one fall off, or get dislodged. However, all  -all- have been mechanically held in place by PSC hangers, drilled holes in  styrene blocks, etc., secured with tiny drops of Barge cement or thick ACC.  The only cements that I know are likely to  hold these soft rubber supple hoses in place for ordinary use  without mechanical enclosure are the contact cements, notably Barge Cement. ACC will not do it.

The PSC brake hose hangers are beautiful, but can be a bit frustrating in the drilling-out the hole for the hose itself.  I made a crude wood jig to hold the hangers vertically in a vise so that I could easily drill them out to #74, the diameter th beyondat I found best to accommodate the HiTech hoses.  Starting out with a #79 pilot hole as Nelson Moyer has suggested, is indeed very good practice.  There is an ample dimple to help with centering.  I usually will drill out a dozen or more hangers at a time, taking no more than about ten minutes or so in the process. Using a drill press will save a lot of drills- for a variety of reasons.

A side note:  The PSC hangers came about directly from the conversations and expressed needs from those on this very list.  It was simply amazing then (and now) that not a single HO brake hose hanger was available  beyond the esoteric Kadee hangers designed for their fine log cars, and the hangers included in the CalScale kits.

Dennis Storzek then drew up, machined, and generously provided the fine pattern for the PSC casting that we now enjoy.  I negotiated with PSC for development of the castings and the resulting agreement to include the part into their standard line.

Mont Switzer and I underwrote minimum production (taking in return-  pleasure and product!).  I tried every rhetorical  trick I knew to persuade PSC to core out the hole for the hose itself, but they felt that it simply was too small in that location to be feasible.  The hangers were at the time designed to accept the the brass PSC hoses, i.e. 0.020” #76, but with ordinary care,  they readily accommodated the slightly large hole for the excellent HiTech hoses. They are a great combination, and the barely crossed facing hoses look terrific (that is, terrific!) when cars ALSO have scale distances between facing striker plates (29” Accumate Proto -31”Kadee Scale), this -in turn- only enabled by scale couplers.

This lovely scene of scale relationships is easily destroyed by the interfering presence of the magnetic glad hands, and in this regard, I clip these off flush, each and every one of them.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Quarryville, PA




Re: brake hose brackets, etc.

Denny Anspach
 

Since their inception, I have used the HiTech hoses in wholesale numbers for years in a variety of installations and to my knowledge I have never had one fall off, or get dislodged. However, all -all- have been mechanically held in place by PSC hangers, drilled holes in styrene blocks, etc., secured with tiny drops of Barge cement or thick ACC. The only cements that I know are likely to hold these soft rubber supple hoses in place for ordinary use without mechanical enclosure are the contact cements, notably Barge Cement. ACC will not do it.

The PSC brake hose hangers are beautiful, but can be a bit frustrating in the drilling-out the hole for the hose itself. I made a crude wood jig to hold the hangers vertically in a vise so that I could easily drill them out to #74, the diameter th beyondat I found best to accommodate the HiTech hoses. Starting out with a #79 pilot hole as Nelson Moyer has suggested, is indeed very good practice. There is an ample dimple to help with centering. I usually will drill out a dozen or more hangers at a time, taking no more than about ten minutes or so in the process. Using a drill press will save a lot of drills- for a variety of reasons.

A side note: The PSC hangers came about directly from the conversations and expressed needs from those on this very list. It was simply amazing then (and now) that not a single HO brake hose hanger was available beyond the esoteric Kadee hangers designed for their fine log cars, and the hangers included in the CalScale kits.

Dennis Storzek then drew up, machined, and generously provided the fine pattern for the PSC casting that we now enjoy. I negotiated with PSC for development of the castings and the resulting agreement to include the part into their standard line.

Mont Switzer and I underwrote minimum production (taking in return- pleasure and product!). I tried every rhetorical trick I knew to persuade PSC to core out the hole for the hose itself, but they felt that it simply was too small in that location to be feasible. The hangers were at the time designed to accept the the brass PSC hoses, i.e. 0.020” #76, but with ordinary care, they readily accommodated the slightly large hole for the excellent HiTech hoses. They are a great combination, and the barely crossed facing hoses look terrific (that is, terrific!) when cars ALSO have scale distances between facing striker plates (29” Accumate Proto -31”Kadee Scale), this -in turn- only enabled by scale couplers.

This lovely scene of scale relationships is easily destroyed by the interfering presence of the magnetic glad hands, and in this regard, I clip these off flush, each and every one of them.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Quarryville, PA


Re: brake hose brackets, etc.

Jon Miller
 

On 8/14/2018 6:21 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
canopy cement to glue HI Tech air hoses

    I'm finding out that canopy cement works for almost everything.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

Ed Hawkins contemplates the following regarding Boston & Main PS-1 cars in the 74000-74499 series----

"Keep in mind that BM received large orders of PS-1 box cars in 1956 & 1957: 1,000 - 50’ cars in 1956 & 539 - 40’ cars in 1957. These new cars may have something to do with the 42-car drop of the 1947-built PS-1 box cars that occurred in 1957. 

Perhaps someone on this discussion group may know the disposition of the 42 cars and if any were sold in 1957 to a new owner. "

The answer can be found at Lowell, Mass. where the B&M Hist. Soc. has archives of the RR.  I have a number of copied pages from a log book entitled  "New Equipment & Equipment Destroyed" which, as it might be inferred, lists the equipment entering and leaving the assets of the RR.  I copied a large number (but not all) of the pages a few years back for other cars of interest.  Reviewing what I have relates only three of the 74000-74499 series cars being passed to other RRs as wreck replacements.  No large 'blocks' of cars are in my material.  However, a full review starting in 1956 might uncover evidence of the 42 cars Ed has noted.  Contact with the Lowell HQ of the Society is easily made via their web-site, also easily found.  Email is:  [bmrrhs@...].

Happy historical railroading from Grove City in wet, wonderful, western Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Monday, August 13, 2018, 10:45:58 PM EDT, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:



On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:22 PM, Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:

New Haven's PS-1 boxcars were prone to resale.

Examples of ex-NH 10'-0" inside height PS-1 boxcars were the first blue Port Huron and Detroit boxcars, and the yellow with red lettering AC&Y boxcars.    

Others went to DRGW, LV, CNW, TPW, WAB, and LNAC, I think these were 10'-6" inside height boxcars, hence road names for the new Kadee 1947-vintage tooling.

Were any of these 1950's sales?

Jim,
PS-1 40’ box & auto car production during 1947-1948 totaled 16,965 cars, many of which are in Kadee’s plans to produce. By 1960 all but one railroad had experienced around a 1 to 3 percent attrition of these cars. This rate was not high enough to show evidence during the 1950s of sales to a second-hand owner. 

One exception may be the Boston & Maine for BM 74000-74499 built ca. 9-47. Through 1/57 these cars experienced “normal attrition” with 489 cars reported in the ORER. By 1/58 the quantity dropped to 447, an 8.6 percent drop in one year. In 1/60 the quantity continued steady at 446. It would seem unlikely that 42 cars just 10-11 years old would have been lost to normal attrition in 1957. My thoughts are that a second-hand sale was made or possibly some cars leased to another railroad and not counted by the B&M for their ORER reporting.

Keep in mind that BM received large orders of PS-1 box cars in 1956 & 1957: 1,000 - 50’ cars in 1956 & 539 - 40’ cars in 1957. These new cars may have something to do with the 42-car drop of the 1947-built PS-1 box cars that occurred in 1957. 

Perhaps someone on this discussion group may know the disposition of the 42 cars and if any were sold in 1957 to a new owner. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Accurail gondola

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Bill Welch and Martin Loftin compiled a list of prototypes and close cars to the Accurail gon. At some point this was posted on the STMFC web site, and I printed copy, but there is no file number or URL on my copy. Bill, do you know where the archived copy lives?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 8/14/18 9:19 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Aaron Heaney asked:
"Guys I went through the process of detailing an Accurail DL&W gondola before I realized that it wasn't correct. Can anyone direct me to correct decals for it? I model PRR in the Harrisburg PA area circa 1952. I would prefer a black scheme just so I have less work."

Here are some possibilities:

Additionally, Tichy does a set for W&LE, but it's of the cars as built in 1921.


Ben Hom



Re: Accurail gondola

O Fenton Wells
 

Eric, I believe John Golden did the Accurail-ACL gon in the ACL/SAL Ezine. I’ll see if I can find it
Fenton 
Sent from my i

On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Those Wheeling cars built in 1921 had different ends than the Accurail kit. The floor also needs to be modified to a wood representation. The cars originally ran with KD brake systems. I’m not certain when (or if) they received AB brake systems. Here’s a look at modifications to an Accurail model for a W&LE gondola.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2015/11/06/model-progress/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail gondola

 

Aaron Heaney asked:
"Guys I went through the process of detailing an Accurail DL&W gondola before I realized that it wasn't correct. Can anyone direct me to correct decals for it? I model PRR in the Harrisburg PA area circa 1952. I would prefer a black scheme just so I have less work."

Here are some possibilities:

 

Additionally, Tichy does a set for W&LE, but it's of the cars as built in 1921.

 

 

Ben Hom

 


NKP container gons

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gang;

Have any of you done a NKP container gon, specifically the ones with containers for powdered dolomite? I think Sunshine did a kit of the car; what did you use for containers?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood