Date   

Re: 1937 shot at Ft. Belvoir

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 8/23/2018 9:30 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
Officer riding boots?  :  More probably they were “puttees”, strapped leather leggings that encased officer's trousers similar to riding britches, and which which fit over the tops of leather shoes. I always assumed that this was a rank-thing that hung over when officers were all on horseback.

    Could be.  I was familiar with my fathers boots (which I like to put on when I was little).  He was field artillery at VMI for a couple of years, in that time frame, and he had them as artillery was horse drawn (in his time).  I had never heard of puttees.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: 1937 shot at Ft. Belvoir

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Officer riding boots? : More probably they were “puttees”, strapped leather leggings that encased officer's trousers similar to riding britches, and which which fit over the tops of leather shoes. I always assumed that this was a rank-thing that hung over when officers were all on horseback.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA


Re: HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Dan & Group!

I second Dan's  comment and excellent diagram.  Perhaps unknown to this group but very relevant to the discussion is how similar are the bearings in our modern locomotive diesel engines, those of main, connecting rod, and cam shaft applications.  The basics have not changed where a babbitt lining is supported by a bronze backing.  The development of the oil film and, indeed that this supports the rotating journal and, normally, keeps that journal from contacting the bearing's surface.  More modern bearings may have different compositions of that lining (such as aluminum alloys) and steel backing behind the bronze but the basics Dan describes are the same today in modern internal combustion engines as they were in the earliest babbitt lined bearings of early freight car trucks.

Regards from Grove City, Penna. where the weather today is just sunny & fine----Mike Schleigh




On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:17 PM EDT, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:


Very true for many/most railroad axle bearings. The babbitt, aside from being a better bearing material, could be melted out and replaced as needed. Unfortunately it’s too soft to make the entire bearing, hence the bronze "cage” to contain it. It’s a better, and usually satisfactory, solution for many applications. An excellent example are the “driving boxes" used to support typical locomotives upon their axles. Most freight and passenger cars of the period were similarly supported.

The drawing below is somewhat simplified, but some early ones were much like this. Note that the babbitt metal bearing surface is keyed into the bronze box containing it. Later designs had the babbitt metal in a more complex cavity surrounded by the bronze … rather like an “inlay”. Oil could also be applied manually or by some lubrication system. In freight cars (and some locos) a cloth pad soaked in oil often sat beneath the axle, rubbing on it. As the axle rotated it carried the oil into the bearing. The loco’s weight was thus carried on an oil film running against the babbitt bearing surface.


However plain bronze bearings were also used for many purposes, as were brass, lignum-vitae (wood), rubber, Teflon, and other materials. Some of this was “evolution” as better things were discovered, and some was due to differing needs depending on application. They tried, and used, many different bearing materials. Still do, for that matter.

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Aug 22, 2018, at 3:03 PM, earlyrail <cascaderail@...> wrote:

But that bronze was just to hold the Babbit and oil film that was the real bearing material
Howard Garner


Re: HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 07:06 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:
This results from “HO” being half of European “O” gauge, which is 7mm to the foot … another goofy scale. Why did they pick such a congloberation in the first place?
At risk of getting waaaay off topic, it was the result of adopting toy train track with a gauge of 1.25 inches as the standard for O Scale, which is supposed to be 1/4"=1'-0", 1:48. The gauge ends up being a scale 3.5" oversize. By adopting 7mm = 1'-0", 1:43.5, they corrected the scale for the gauge, actually over corrected by several percent, but that was better, because model wheels are overly wide, also. At one time there was a movement here in the US to correct the modeling scale by adopting 17/64" = 1'-0", 1:45, which is almost perfect, but it never went anywhere, although I've seen some trolley models built to that scale.

Why not just use the real numbers? Mechanisms are likely the most difficult part of the model to build, so many people just wanted to adapt toy mechanisms. Meanwhile precision tools that measure to one thousandth of an inch were expensive and not commonly available, so they were always picking some number that could be measured with a machinist scale.

What does this have to do with steam era freight cars? Most of this transpired during the steam era, and there have been freigtcar models built in all these scales.

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: Southern 41' low side steel gon - possible HO rerun

Jim King
 

George … it was a very popular kit in HO and S.  Planning to upscale to O this year to complete “the family”.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Well, NO it is not!  If we want to pick nits it’s actually 1:87.0857142. A really goofy scale resulting from the formal definition of 3.5mm = 1 ft. An odd mix of Metric and English units that does not divide out evenly. This results from “HO” being half of European “O” gauge, which is 7mm to the foot … another goofy scale. Why did they pick such a congloberation in the first place

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Aug 23, 2018, at 9:53 AM, Bill Daniels via Groups.Io <billinsf@...> wrote:

Not to be a picker of nits, but you should be cubing 87.1 and not 87... that is the correct ratio.

Bill Daniels
On a grey day by the bay.


On Aug 23, 2018, at 5:18 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

If you have a computer/calculator connected to your scale, it could do the conversion for you … i guess that would be a “scale scale”. Then you could weight your models directly. Graft this under a piece of HO track and you’d have a working, direct reading, track scale.

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Aug 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, John Hagen via Groups.Io <sprinthag@...> wrote:

Wish my weight was in scale tons.
Anyway, to check the weight wouldn’t you need a scale scale?
John John Hagen
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings
 
 John Hagen wrote:


Just for the fun of it seeing as how proper nomenclature has been introduced;
There is no way in hell an HO truck, even a pair of them, could weigh 70 tons.
I’ll now return to my nap.
 
      What, you don't know about scale tons?
 
Tony Thompson
 
 
 




Re: Speaking of Sunshine - kit questions

O Fenton Wells
 

I haven't checked in a while but doesn't Sylvan make similar trailers from that era that might work as well?  Might check their web site.
Fenton Wells

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 9:58 AM, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:
Partial answer:

Yes, I bought one or two.  If memory serves, the castings look decent.  (In other words, I haven't built these.)

I could be persuaded to wait x number of years until somebody else makes these as a commercial product, just because there are plenty more cars and trailers on my bucket list - er, construction schedule.

Ron Merrick




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: 1937 shot at Ft. Belvoir

james murrie
 

When the Ohio River flooded it put a lot of tracks under water.  One result of this was a postponement of the 2nd of the "gold trains" moving bullion to the new depository at Ft Knox.
Jim Murrie


Re: Speaking of Sunshine - kit questions

mopacfirst
 

Partial answer:

Yes, I bought one or two.  If memory serves, the castings look decent.  (In other words, I haven't built these.)

I could be persuaded to wait x number of years until somebody else makes these as a commercial product, just because there are plenty more cars and trailers on my bucket list - er, construction schedule.

Ron Merrick


Re: HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Not to be a picker of nits, but you should be cubing 87.1 and not 87... that is the correct ratio.

Bill Daniels
On a grey day by the bay.


On Aug 23, 2018, at 5:18 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

If you have a computer/calculator connected to your scale, it could do the conversion for you … i guess that would be a “scale scale”. Then you could weight your models directly. Graft this under a piece of HO track and you’d have a working, direct reading, track scale.

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Aug 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, John Hagen via Groups.Io <sprinthag@...> wrote:

Wish my weight was in scale tons.
Anyway, to check the weight wouldn’t you need a scale scale?
John John Hagen
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings
 
 John Hagen wrote:


Just for the fun of it seeing as how proper nomenclature has been introduced;
There is no way in hell an HO truck, even a pair of them, could weigh 70 tons.
I’ll now return to my nap.
 
      What, you don't know about scale tons?
 
Tony Thompson
 
 
 



Re: Southern 41' low side steel gon - possible HO rerun

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Don


Not very close at all , I am afraid.  The ACL had cars very similar to the MEC cars and which have already been referred to.


The SOU gons have only been done in resin (and, if memory serves, sometime in the modelling dark ages in diecast metal). Speedwitch did the 1930s ACF built cars some years ago and these could perhaps be kitbashed into  the1920s Pullman built cars, though I haven't looked into this very hard as the Speedwitch kit is not presently available.  


From memory Jim's kit represents a post war rebuild of the Pullman-built cars; "rebuild" in this case seems to be largeley an accounting definition rather than an engineering one. . Either way the SMMW version is a nice kit of a very useful car if you model the post war period,  


Aidrian




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2018 12:32 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Southern 41' low side steel gon - possible HO rerun
 
Hi folks,

    While I realize that the Ertl gondola is a model of a Maine Central prototype
how close is it, if at all, to the Southern gon?

Thanks to anyone who knows both prototypes, Don Valentine

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

If you have a computer/calculator connected to your scale, it could do the conversion for you … i guess that would be a “scale scale”. Then you could weight your models directly. Graft this under a piece of HO track and you’d have a working, direct reading, track scale.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Aug 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, John Hagen via Groups.Io <sprinthag@...> wrote:

Wish my weight was in scale tons.
Anyway, to check the weight wouldn’t you need a scale scale?
John John Hagen
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings
 
 John Hagen wrote:


Just for the fun of it seeing as how proper nomenclature has been introduced;
There is no way in hell an HO truck, even a pair of them, could weigh 70 tons.
I’ll now return to my nap.
 
      What, you don't know about scale tons?
 
Tony Thompson
 
 
 



Re: HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Weight the model and multiply by 658,503 to obtain its weight as a prototype. That’s the cube of 87. Conversely, a model should weigh 1/658,503 of the prototype.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Aug 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, John Hagen via Groups.Io <sprinthag@...> wrote:

Wish my weight was in scale tons.
Anyway, to check the weight wouldn’t you need a scale scale?
John John Hagen
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings
 
 John Hagen wrote:


Just for the fun of it seeing as how proper nomenclature has been introduced;
There is no way in hell an HO truck, even a pair of them, could weigh 70 tons.
I’ll now return to my nap.
 
      What, you don't know about scale tons?
 
Tony Thompson
 
 
 



Speaking of Sunshine - kit questions

Peter Ness
 

Charlie Tapper’s link made me go review the Sunshine flyers which I haven’t done for years.  There I noticed  - probably for the second time, but CRS is advancing as I age – the flyers for Fruehauf trailers, which I never purchased.

 

Since I’m working on my NH TOFC project these are of interest so, I read them.

 

Question: Did anyone ever purchase and build the trailer kits?  Comments on the build? The flyer states the kits include equipment necessary to secure the trailer to a flat – what was included? Were these Sunshine castings?

 

Question: Did anyone ever pick up the molds to continue manufacturing these trailers?

 

Question: Does anyone have any unbuilt kits on their hobby shop – er, I mean hobby shelf – they may be willing to hand off to a new home where they will get built?

 

Regards,

Peter

 

Peter R. Ness
website: http://newhavenrailroad1959.webs.com/

 


Re: HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Wish my weight was in scale tons.

Anyway, to check the weight wouldn’t you need a scale scale?

John John Hagen

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO scale ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks with roller bearings

 

 John Hagen wrote:



Just for the fun of it seeing as how proper nomenclature has been introduced;

There is no way in hell an HO truck, even a pair of them, could weigh 70 tons.

I’ll now return to my nap.

 

      What, you don't know about scale tons?

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: Modeling Truss Rod Underframe

Armand Premo
 

Great job Bill.Now I'll have to go down to the basement and check out my four.Armand Premo


On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 9:02 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

A current project is a Great Northern 40-ft. Truss Rod boxcar using a Funaro & Camerlengo kit that is probably 20 years old based on the older style box it is in. I built this same kit years ago when I first started building resin kits using Fishing Line for the truss rods: BIG MISTAKE as it has stretched over time. I now always use .015 brass wire and Grandt Line Brass turnbuckles from my stash allowing a see-through effect. Building this underframe is akin I think to building a ship-in-a-bottle in terms of the assembly sequence and making sure things will fit. With photos from a friend I used a Tichy AB brake set to place them out accurately. Normally I use .012 brass wire for the brake piping but I had a hard time getting it to bend like I wanted so I used .010 styrene rod. The levers are made a little too long so I could fit the brakes rods outside the the second Queen Posts on each side. Next the interior pairs of Queen Posts are assembled. To accept the .015 wire the grooves in the Queens posts were carefully enlarged with a single edged razor blade. Next I fit the interior truss rods and then the brass turnbuckles. All of this is pretty tedious so I am putting the underframe aside for a few days to work on the boxcar's body.

I should note that F&C has the four Queen posts cast as one assembly, but these assemblies are plainly too long and need to be cut into two parts to fit the width of the u/f correctly. Hopefully the photos will amplify/enhance my building notes.

Questions?

Bill Welch


Re: Southern 41' low side steel gon - possible HO rerun

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Don,

Richard Hendrickson used the Ertl car to make an ACL K-7. His biggest change was to scratch build a fishbelly underframe. Richard's extensive article was in the October 2007 SEABOARD-COAST LINE MODELER.

By the way, these cars were black. Ertl offered their car lettered for the ACL but in FCR. I have one that someday will stripped and given Richard's treatment.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 8/22/18 8:32 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi folks,

    While I realize that the Ertl gondola is a model of a Maine Central prototype
how close is it, if at all, to the Southern gon?

Thanks to anyone who knows both prototypes, Don Valentine

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Accurail gondola

Charles Tapper
 

The P&WV cars had Improved Deadnaught ends as did cars from the W&LE’s 1946 and 1948 orders of essentially the same cars. But I believe the 1945 cars 4500-45499 can be modeled using the Accurail cars as-is.  The Sunshine flyer was on the www.sunshinekits.com website last I checked. I have the Sunshine kit for the P&WV car. It has Dreadnaught ends,however.  There is a tab for flyers by railroad. 

Charlie Tapper


On Aug 21, 2018, at 10:24 PM, Matt Smith <flyn96@...> wrote:

Mike,

You can get an Accurail version with the logo you are referencing. Here is the link.
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/3700/3703_2.jpg
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL


Re: Southern 41' low side steel gon - possible HO rerun

Bill Welch
 

The Southern gons have more ribs and side panels.

Bill Welch


Modeling Truss Rod Underframe

Bill Welch
 
Edited

A current project is a Great Northern 40-ft. Truss Rod boxcar using a Funaro & Camerlengo kit that is probably 20 years old based on the older style box it is in. I built this same kit years ago when I first started building resin kits using Fishing Line for the truss rods: BIG MISTAKE as it has stretched over time. I now always use .015 brass wire and Grandt Line Brass turnbuckles from my stash allowing a see-through effect. Building this underframe is akin I think to building a ship-in-a-bottle in terms of the assembly sequence and making sure things will fit. With photos from a friend I used a Tichy AB brake set to place them out accurately. Normally I use .012 brass wire for the brake piping but I had a hard time getting it to bend like I wanted so I used .010 styrene rod. The levers are made a little too long so I could fit the brakes rods outside the the second Queen Posts on each side. Next the interior pairs of Queen Posts are assembled. To accept the .015 wire the grooves in the Queens posts were carefully enlarged with a single edged razor blade. Next I fit the interior truss rods and then the brass turnbuckles. All of this is pretty tedious so I am putting the underframe aside for a few days to work on the boxcar's body.

I should note that F&C has the four Queen posts cast as one assembly, but these assemblies are plainly too long and need to be cut into two parts to fit the width of the u/f correctly. Hopefully the photos will amplify/enhance my building notes.

Questions?

Bill Welch

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