Date   

Re: Icing in general

Tony Thompson
 

Clark Propst wrote:

Last night at our Monday Night op session the question of how long would reefers go between icing was brought up. No one had a good answer and meat was confused with produce.

Can someone give the approximate [ballpark] time between icings while a produce car was in transit? Say from coast to coast? How about a meat reefer traveling from the Upper Midwest to the east coast?

    This was decided by the shipper. Normally 24 hours would be selected, but in cool weather a shipper could choose a longer interval (or could specify the icing stations used). In hot weather, they could specify shorter times. They could even choose to let the railroad make sure ice was "sufficient," but railroads hated that because they were then easily the victims of damage claims. I'm sure local agents worked hard to talk shippers out of that option.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Icing in general was: Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Pierre Oliver
 

It's my understanding that it was a daily event

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 8/28/18 12:22 PM, Clark Propst wrote:

Last night at our Monday Night op session the question of how long would reefers go between icing was brought up. No one had a good answer and meat was confused with produce.

Can someone give the approximate [ballpark] time between icings while a produce car was in transit? Say from coast to coast? How about a meat reefer traveling from the Upper Midwest to the east coast?

Thanks for any assistance,
Clark Propst
 


Icing in general was: Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Clark Propst
 

Last night at our Monday Night op session the question of how long would reefers go between icing was brought up. No one had a good answer and meat was confused with produce.

Can someone give the approximate [ballpark] time between icings while a produce car was in transit? Say from coast to coast? How about a meat reefer traveling from the Upper Midwest to the east coast?

Thanks for any assistance,
Clark Propst
 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Can Anyone Identify the ownership of the flat car with the transformer load?

Ted Culotta
 

I believe MILW, the welded cars built ca. early 1940s through mid-40s. There is one in the The Postwar Freight Car Fleet.

Ted Culotta
Speedwitch Media
P.O. Box 392, Guilford, CT 06437


Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Bob Chaparro
 

As I acknowledged, whole blocks of ice certainly are less efficient for cooling loads. However, I have found evidence for this practice in older photos of Southern California packing houses. In addition the text below also supports this practice.

This is taken from USDA Technical Bulletin 505 (January 1936):

"Initial icing only became established in connection with the method of precooling previously discussed and has been most extensively used on oranges precooled in the warehouses operated by fruit growers' associations. Precooled fruit was usually shipped in refrigerator cars that were initially iced by shippers before loading; i. e., preiced. Car icing as performed by the citrus associations differs

from the usual procedure followed at railroad icing stations.

The method is to fill the bunkers with block ice corded or laid in such

manner as to form practically a solid mass. In this way it is possible to place 15,000 to 16,000 pounds of block ice in bunkers of refrigerator cars which have a rated capacity of 11,000 pounds of chunk ice."

I think this practice was an attempt by shippers to reduce/avoid carrier icing charges.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Bob Chaparro
 

The second photo was taken at La Verne, CA. As the heaters were railroad-owned, it doesn't make sense for the packing house to have/load these. When loaded the refrigerator cars would have been taken to Santa Fe's B Yard in San Bernardino where heaters would have been added and the cars placed in (usually) dedicated trains headed east. The procedure for loading heaters in Maine could have been different.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Upcoming releases for Chicagoland RPM

Pierre Oliver
 

http://elgincarshops.blogspot.com/2018/08/if-levee-dont-break.html

A little teaser for all of you

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Reminder: 25th Anniversary RPM Chicagoland - October 18-20

skibbs4
 

Yes, this year is the 25th annual RPM conference!  You're not going to want to miss this party.

Check out the amazing list of presenters, the heart and soul of this conference event.  Come learn about modeling tips and techniques, new research on freight car topics, operations, prototype railroading, and more.  You'll recognize many respected names, including a few making their return to RPM because of the silver anniversary event.  More info here:

The meal presentations are always a hit, and this year we have three exciting programs:
Thursday Kick-off Luncheon - Phil Weibler presents Here and There on the Rock Island
Thursday Banquet Dinner - Bon French, chairman of the Center for Railroad Photography and Art presents on their goal of preserving and protecting historic railroad images and shares some of the amazing photos in their collection.
Friday Friends of the Freight Car Dinner - Join moderator Steve Hile in the ever popular panel discussion, as this year we reflect on the resin freight car movement and remember Martin Lofton, long time organizer of the "Naperville"  RPM conference.

In addition, we'll have a ballroom filled with prototype modular railroads from the Modutrak HO and N groups, vendors, and model displays.  This year, as part of honoring the last 25 years and more of the prototype modeling movement, we're encouraging attendees to bring not only their newest modeling, but also some models that are a nod to the past.  Have an original Sunshine model, even if it's still in kit form?  Bring it for display!  Upgraded an old Athearn blue box model back in the 1980s?  Bring it to show how far we've come!  Heck, if you want to show off your 1950s American Flyer and how much more realistic it was on two rails than your neighbor's three rail Lionel abomination, bring that too.  The history of this hobby is rich, and we're at a great time with the most realistic models available to date.  Lets reminisce a bit and enjoy some laughs together about our early models.  We'll have tables grouped by modeling decade to help show the story line. 

Early bird registration is up for another couple of weeks, and there are limited hotel rooms still available at the host hotel at $99/night.  All information and easy online registration is up on the website at www.rpmconference.com

Hope to see you all there.

Mike Skibbe


Re: New Tools for the Clearwater Car Shops

tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

A razor saw works the same way, but you need to brace the thicker sprue to cause breakage of the smaller part.   It's a handy way to separate extremely thin molded ladders from their runners.

Tom Casey 


-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Tools for the Clearwater Car Shops

Good tip (no pun intended) Charlie.  I’ve managed to break parts just as you describe.
 
Schuyler
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 4:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Tools for the Clearwater Car Shops
 
All-
I found that (like the InterMountain N Scale Brake Wheels and some of the Walthers HO CB&Q Waycar Details) that were impossible to cut off plastic sprues without ruining the parts.   Cutting the thick runner next to delicate parts puts enough pressure on the part to break it.
The best solution I’ve found for such parts is to use a soldering pencil to melt the sprue off the part so you only have the thin connector hanging off the part which can be shaved or filed/sanded away.   Perhaps a wood burning pencil could have an Exacto blade inserted (some have the same style tip holder) for more precise control.
Charlie Vlk
 


Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 11:14 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Both photos show equipment that seems likely to be used to handle heaters, not ice
Especially in the potato capital of the world, where on an annual basis likely more loads went out with heaters than ice. I think Tony has nailed it. 

I note in one of the pix what looks to be a hoist line from the end of the beam dropping down to the ground. Likely the heaters were hoisted from the bunkers and lowered to the ground for refueling.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Can Anyone Identify the ownership of the flat car with the transformer load?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gary;

I don't know, but it isn't PRR.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 7:06 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Can Anyone Identify the ownership of the flat car with the transformer load?

The flat car appears around 4 min n 30 seconds into the clip and again near the 5 minute mark:



Blockedhttps://www.johnpmedia.com/dvds/the-pennsy-off-the-beaten-track



Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

The photo on the link below shows what I think are block-and-tackle structures on an icing platform for lowering whole ice blocks into the refrigerator car bunkers:
Can anyone confirm this?

  Both photos show equipment that seems likely to be used to handle heaters, not ice.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Actually, this is the photo I saw first. What is absent in the photo is a "Splitter" to break the ice into quarters or smaller pieces.
In Southern California some of the packing houses avoided carrier icing charges by putting their own ice into the bunkers. And some of these packing houses had block-and-tackle equipment to lower whole clocks into the bunkers. Although this was not very efficient for cooling it was cheap and, unlike the carriers, they had time to load blocks of ice in this manner. The practice died-out, I believe but have no documentation, by the 1940s.

      THe main reason NOT to put full blocks into bunkers is that the cooling was inferior: the surface-to-volume ratio of the ice was quite low. Just think of a full block, and then of the same block, crushed. Most shippers would reject full-block icing for that reason.
       The photo shown sure looks posed. It may not represent normal practice.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Bob Chaparro
 

Actually, this is the photo I saw first. What is absent in the photo is a "Splitter" to break the ice into quarters or smaller pieces.
In Southern California some of the packing houses avoided carrier icing charges by putting their own ice into the bunkers. And some of these packing houses had block-and-tackle equipment to lower whole clocks into the bunkers. Although this was not very efficient for cooling it was cheap and, unlike the carriers, they had time to load blocks of ice in this manner. The practice died-out, I believe but have no documentation, by the 1940s.
Attached is a photo of this kind of activity.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: New Tools for the Clearwater Car Shops

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Good tip (no pun intended) Charlie.  I’ve managed to break parts just as you describe.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 4:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Tools for the Clearwater Car Shops

 

All-

I found that (like the InterMountain N Scale Brake Wheels and some of the Walthers HO CB&Q Waycar Details) that were impossible to cut off plastic sprues without ruining the parts.   Cutting the thick runner next to delicate parts puts enough pressure on the part to break it.

The best solution I’ve found for such parts is to use a soldering pencil to melt the sprue off the part so you only have the thin connector hanging off the part which can be shaved or filed/sanded away.   Perhaps a wood burning pencil could have an Exacto blade inserted (some have the same style tip holder) for more precise control.

Charlie Vlk

 


Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Douglas Harding
 

Another photo of icing reefers in same location https://www.flickr.com/photos/crgrantphotography/15934380662/in/album-72157628194834023/

Shows the workers sliding ice from the deck to the reefer hatches.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 7:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Icing Reefers In Maine

 

Bob first I’ve seen such a structure. Common practice was to break the ice block down into smaller chunks per the shippers instructions. A normal block of ice weighed 300lbs and dropping a complete block into the bunker could cause extensive damage, if it would fit through the hatch. Typically the block was broke into quarters, or smaller, before putting into the bunker.

 

You are asking about the structure above the ice deck, and it appears there are several on the deck, spaced about one car length apart. The appears to be a chain, perhaps a lifting mechanism, attached. As ice slides very easily, common practice was to slide the ice blocks down the deck and out across the platform to the bunker hatch. Usually blocks of ice were moved via a chain conveyor or perhaps a belt. There appears to be rails or guides along the length of the deck, common for a chain or cable to move ice blocks to the spot where needed. No lifting was involved.

 

If the ice block was moved via a conveyor below deck, the structure in question could have been used to lift the blocks of ice to the upper deck. Another thought, the structure was used to lower or place the walkway into place to go from deck to reefer. Either way it is very unusal.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 2:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Icing Reefers In Maine

 

The photo on the link below shows what I think are block-and-tackle structures on an icing platform for lowering whole ice blocks into the refrigerator car bunkers:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/crgrantphotography/28036220386/in/album-72157628194834023/

Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Virginian's battleship gons

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Which drawings?


Al Kresse

On August 22, 2018 at 12:02 AM Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:

I simply caution that there are some issues with those drawings, including the brake system and interior details, IIRC.

Bil


Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Douglas Harding
 

Bob first I’ve seen such a structure. Common practice was to break the ice block down into smaller chunks per the shippers instructions. A normal block of ice weighed 300lbs and dropping a complete block into the bunker could cause extensive damage, if it would fit through the hatch. Typically the block was broke into quarters, or smaller, before putting into the bunker.

 

You are asking about the structure above the ice deck, and it appears there are several on the deck, spaced about one car length apart. The appears to be a chain, perhaps a lifting mechanism, attached. As ice slides very easily, common practice was to slide the ice blocks down the deck and out across the platform to the bunker hatch. Usually blocks of ice were moved via a chain conveyor or perhaps a belt. There appears to be rails or guides along the length of the deck, common for a chain or cable to move ice blocks to the spot where needed. No lifting was involved.

 

If the ice block was moved via a conveyor below deck, the structure in question could have been used to lift the blocks of ice to the upper deck. Another thought, the structure was used to lower or place the walkway into place to go from deck to reefer. Either way it is very unusal.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 2:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Icing Reefers In Maine

 

The photo on the link below shows what I think are block-and-tackle structures on an icing platform for lowering whole ice blocks into the refrigerator car bunkers:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/crgrantphotography/28036220386/in/album-72157628194834023/

Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Can Anyone Identify the ownership of the flat car with the transformer load?

gary laakso
 

The flat car appears around 4 min n 30 seconds into the clip and again near the 5 minute mark:

 

https://www.johnpmedia.com/dvds/the-pennsy-off-the-beaten-track 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: ADMIN: Termination of trailer thread.

Mikebrock
 

 

It has been requested that we leave the thread on trailers open for a few more days. Thus, we’ll open discussion on trailers for a few more days….closing it on Thursday.

 

Mike Brock

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