Date   
Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Fritz Milhaupt
 

If anyone ever makes the PM style of these ends, I'm in for at least a dozen sets, since the PM had a thousand cars equipped with them, in the 85000-85999 series. Built as auto cars, they were converted to single-door cars between 1937 and 1943. The last ones were in service on the C&O until 1957.

We can add the Manistee & Northeastern to the list of owners, since they got at least a handful of them second-hand, after the single-door conversion.

- Fritz Milhaupt
Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
.

Re: Scalecoat II boxcar reds

mopacfirst
 

Steve:

Yes, putting those colors in order helps.  Thanks.

Ron Merrick

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Rob and Dennis,

No need to use typical dimensions. Here are the dimensions for the W&LE 27000-series cars from the ORER:

IL--40' 3"
IW--8' 6"
IH--9' 1"
OL--41' 7"
OW (Eaves)-- 9' 3"
EW--10' 1"
OH (From rail)--3' 9"
OH (To roof?)-- 13' 3"
OH (To running board)--13' 9"
EH--14' 5"
Door Opening Width--7'
Door Opening Height--8' 7"
Cubic Feet--3092
Capy-- 80000

My ORER page is was copied out of an unknown issue and is not dated, but apparently from the early 1950s. It says there were 14 cars left. A corresponding NKP page shows no cars matching these dimensions.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 9/2/18 9:12 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 04:50 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:
Tried playing around in Sketchup with various corrugation shapes this afternoon.  I think this is fairly close.  9” spacing as suggested by Dennis.  4.5” depth of corrugations (just a guess).  Flat on the outer surface of the end, and the space between each corrugation about 1.5” wide.  Each corrugations has a curved radius at the back about 1”.  Approx. 28 degree bend in the corrugations creates the points at each end.
Rob,

Don't take my 9" dimension as gospel; that was a late night guesstimate based on a ten foot car width... But cars of this era were narrower than ten feet, and the ends of single sheathed cars were narrower yet. Typical inside width during that period was 8'-6", or 102", plus 2 x 1.75" sheathing, 105.5", plus the two quarter inch thick flanges of the corner angles, for a total of 106" over the corners. Twelve corrugations at 9" would be 108", so they must be slightly smaller, twelve at 8.5" would be 102", leaving 4" to be divided between the center lap and corner angles; twelve at 8.25" would total 99", leaving 7" to be divided between the corner angles and center lap. I agree that the pressings are straight sided with just a small nose radius, as we are basically seeing a cross section at the rib ends, though elongated by the angle of the section plane. There will also be a small radius where the pressing meets the plane of the end, likely 1/2" or 5/8" radius, as this was good practice.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for your comments here Dennis.  No worries – it was more a proof of concept/proportions anyway.  Easily re-drawn if dimensions of the end are available to make it worthwhile. 

 

Rob

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2018 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

 

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 04:50 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:

Tried playing around in Sketchup with various corrugation shapes this afternoon.  I think this is fairly close.  9” spacing as suggested by Dennis.  4.5” depth of corrugations (just a guess).  Flat on the outer surface of the end, and the space between each corrugation about 1.5” wide.  Each corrugations has a curved radius at the back about 1”.  Approx. 28 degree bend in the corrugations creates the points at each end.

Rob,

Don't take my 9" dimension as gospel; that was a late night guesstimate based on a ten foot car width... But cars of this era were narrower than ten feet, and the ends of single sheathed cars were narrower yet. Typical inside width during that period was 8'-6", or 102", plus 2 x 1.75" sheathing, 105.5", plus the two quarter inch thick flanges of the corner angles, for a total of 106" over the corners. Twelve corrugations at 9" would be 108", so they must be slightly smaller, twelve at 8.5" would be 102", leaving 4" to be divided between the center lap and corner angles; twelve at 8.25" would total 99", leaving 7" to be divided between the corner angles and center lap. I agree that the pressings are straight sided with just a small nose radius, as we are basically seeing a cross section at the rib ends, though elongated by the angle of the section plane. There will also be a small radius where the pressing meets the plane of the end, likely 1/2" or 5/8" radius, as this was good practice.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Scalecoat II boxcar reds

pennsylvania1954
 

Hi Ron--I think I understand what you want. Starting with Oxide Red and moving toward less red:

Oxide Red 2002
Box Car Red #2 2087
PRR Freight Car Red 2081
Box Car Red 2013
Box Car Red #3 2088

Hope this helps.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

Re: Studebaker Body Loading

Bill Keene
 

Hello Group,

Going from memory right now--my library is currently boxed away during our house remodeling--I believe that there is a photo of automobile bodies being shipped by the method shown in the SFRM&HS book about automobile and furniture cars. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 2, 2018, at 12:19 PM, Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

I don't believe this photo has been posted before.

Caption:

"1937 (or there-abouts) Studebaker coupe bodies being loaded in a boxcar."

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23755682_1972016066142649_3090743100867648540_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=5a817f5153e03576ce00f1ec8d098eee&oe=5BF2C9FB

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Studebaker Body Loading

 

Not sure if these are Studebakers but Santa Fe carried auto bodies in gondolas. The front ends wioth motors(?) were shipped separately.

Sunshine Kit Problem

Nelson Moyer
 

I ordered seven kit series 34 wood side reefers (plywood and T&G) from Martin shortly before he passed away. Unfortunately, he must have been feeling the effects of his terminal illness, because he sent three pairs of steel sides and two roofs that were different from those for the wood side cars. Attempts to rectify this situation after his death were fruitless. I’m building the three steel side cars as if they were kits 34.25 and 34.26, but without instructions or PDS. If anyone has them and scanning capability, I would sincerely appreciate receiving files sent to npmoyer at hotmail.com. Now the question. Both of the wood reefers from 1942 and 1944 and the steel reefers of 1946 had angle rail type hatch rests. The roofs for these cars have no protruding stubs next to the ribs, as seen in the aluminum painted roof in the picture. The box car red painted roof has the protruding stubs. There is an mark in the casting of the other roofs to indicate where to drill for the rails. There is a raised stub at the same place on the two odd roofs I received. . Are these stubs hatch rests used instead of the angle rails? Are the roofs with these stubs wrong for kits34.25 and 34.26? Did Martin send the wrong roofs in addition to the wrong sides? I need some help.

 

Nelson Moyer

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 04:50 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:
Tried playing around in Sketchup with various corrugation shapes this afternoon.  I think this is fairly close.  9” spacing as suggested by Dennis.  4.5” depth of corrugations (just a guess).  Flat on the outer surface of the end, and the space between each corrugation about 1.5” wide.  Each corrugations has a curved radius at the back about 1”.  Approx. 28 degree bend in the corrugations creates the points at each end.
Rob,

Don't take my 9" dimension as gospel; that was a late night guesstimate based on a ten foot car width... But cars of this era were narrower than ten feet, and the ends of single sheathed cars were narrower yet. Typical inside width during that period was 8'-6", or 102", plus 2 x 1.75" sheathing, 105.5", plus the two quarter inch thick flanges of the corner angles, for a total of 106" over the corners. Twelve corrugations at 9" would be 108", so they must be slightly smaller, twelve at 8.5" would be 102", leaving 4" to be divided between the center lap and corner angles; twelve at 8.25" would total 99", leaving 7" to be divided between the corner angles and center lap. I agree that the pressings are straight sided with just a small nose radius, as we are basically seeing a cross section at the rib ends, though elongated by the angle of the section plane. There will also be a small radius where the pressing meets the plane of the end, likely 1/2" or 5/8" radius, as this was good practice.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Robert kirkham
 

Tried playing around in Sketchup with various corrugation shapes this afternoon.  I think this is fairly close.  9” spacing as suggested by Dennis.  4.5” depth of corrugations (just a guess).  Flat on the outer surface of the end, and the space between each corrugation about 1.5” wide.  Each corrugations has a curved radius at the back about 1”.  Approx. 28 degree bend in the corrugations creates the points at each end.

 

So . . . with end height from bottom of the end to the top of the sides, height from bottom of the end to the peek, and width, it wouldn’t take much to make this end.  

 

Rob

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2018 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

 

So . . . are there two different ends on these cars – one with 5 wider corrugations per panel; the other with 6?  The new lead stark brick photo seems to show that, unless it’s an illusion.

 

 

Rob Kirkham

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2018 2:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

 

The DA ends are a natural thought but the ribs are not spaced the same. You have to invert the casting then scrape off details. Scratch building would be an easier path.  

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Sep 2, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

. . .and the Accurail AAR gon and Detail Assoc's ends make this an easy kitbash. Gone by my modeling period however

Bill Welch

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Bill Welch
 

Maybe the end Speedwitch created for their L&M kitbash would be a better choice. I have not seen them close up.

Bill Welch

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Robert kirkham
 

So . . . are there two different ends on these cars – one with 5 wider corrugations per panel; the other with 6?  The new lead stark brick photo seems to show that, unless it’s an illusion.

 

 

Rob Kirkham

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2018 2:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

 

The DA ends are a natural thought but the ribs are not spaced the same. You have to invert the casting then scrape off details. Scratch building would be an easier path.  

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Sep 2, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

. . .and the Accurail AAR gon and Detail Assoc's ends make this an easy kitbash. Gone by my modeling period however

Bill Welch

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Eric Hansmann
 

The DA ends are a natural thought but the ribs are not spaced the same. You have to invert the casting then scrape off details. Scratch building would be an easier path.  

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Sep 2, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

. . .and the Accurail AAR gon and Detail Assoc's ends make this an easy kitbash. Gone by my modeling period however

Bill Welch

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Bill Welch
 

. . .and the Accurail AAR gon and Detail Assoc's ends make this an easy kitbash. Gone by my modeling period however

Bill Welch

Studebaker Body Loading

Bob Chaparro
 

I don't believe this photo has been posted before.

Caption:

"1937 (or there-abouts) Studebaker coupe bodies being loaded in a boxcar."

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23755682_1972016066142649_3090743100867648540_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=5a817f5153e03576ce00f1ec8d098eee&oe=5BF2C9FB

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Eric Hansmann
 

Attached are two images from the 1922 Car Builder Cyc to compare the PM and W&LE vertical corrugated steel ends. Note the PM car ends have more corrugations and it seems like these are regular corrugations (outies). The W&LE car ends seem to be an inverse corrugation. I've tweaked both images in Photoshop to clarify some detail.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN



On September 2, 2018 at 10:55 AM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

How different were they from the PM cars?  Those have been on my long term list of possible projects, ever sense I found a bunch of wreck photos of them.

 

If anyone has the outline dimensions of the ends, it is a simple matter to draw and print them.  But I find such projects stall without a key outline dimension to work from.

 

Rob Kirkham

 

Flat Car Universal Hand Brake Drawing & Pictures

Ross Dando
 

Hello gang,
Looking for drawings and detailed pictures of the Universal hand brake used on many flat cars. Any help is appreciated. Either post links here or send to roscodando - at - yahoo dot  com.
Thank you,
Ross Dando
Meridian, Idaho

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Robert kirkham
 

How different were they from the PM cars?  Those have been on my long term list of possible projects, ever sense I found a bunch of wreck photos of them.

 

If anyone has the outline dimensions of the ends, it is a simple matter to draw and print them.  But I find such projects stall without a key outline dimension to work from.

 

Rob Kirkham

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2018 8:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

 

I found one in a B&O Brunswick yard photo, circa 1922-23. The ends aren’t visible but the car side and door stand out among the other boxcars. 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Sep 2, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Seems to me these cars fall into the sweet spot for many modelers time wise in revenue service.

Bill Welch

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Eric Hansmann
 

Mike,

Click on the link for "New Lead Stark Brick" on this page.

http://hansmanns.org/finds


I posted a direct link to this W&LE boxcar image before but the photo became embedded in the message. You also night find the W&LE gondola images interesting.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN




On September 2, 2018 at 9:29 AM "Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io" <mike_schleigh@...> wrote:

The message below from Bill Welch is the oldest  I find on this subject.  Was a photo posted that initiated this discussion?  If so, where please.

Regards from Mike Schleigh normally in Grove City, Penna.


On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 12:07:44 PM EDT, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


I have been thinking about how to model one of those WLE Single Sheathed cars with the vertical corrugated ends. Since I model October 1955 it is not a model I will build but I have friends that can use one or more of these. With those rare ends, the 7-foot doors in era of Six and Five-foot doors, and the asymmetrical side panel construction they would make an eye catching model for discerning modelers.

It looks to me like a couple of Accurail offerings could furnish parts for a good start assuming their 4300/4500 eight panel cars and 7000/7200 six-panel cars are the same height. Start by cutting the very fine Hutchins roof from both body styles and save. The left side of the 4300/4500 style body would furnish the four panels needed for the left side of the door while the right side would use the three-panel right side from a 7000/7200 body type. The seven foot wood door can be made easily from Evergreen styrene. About six inches could be cut from the end panel of each side part to permit the seven foot door. The four panel left side has a diagonal brace that will need to be carefully removed and the sheathing re-scribed..

The ends are a challenge but there are resin ends around that replicate the inverted ribs. These might furnish the raw material by turning the parts vertically to make an accurate end. Cutting and fitting back together parts would be necessary I think. One of the harvested Accurail Hutchins roof would be recycled for this kit-bash.

Bill Welch


 


 



Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Schleigh Mike
 

Thanks, Bill----Big help----Mike


On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 12:01:07 PM EDT, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote: