Date   

Re: Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Rather ironic that the display by the  NYC&HRR (note the sign on the roof of the shed) of their freight cars, shows cars that were built by the Harrisburg Car Company, from deep in enemy territory!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2018 5:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

 

I suspect they are exhibits at the Centennial International Exhibition of 1876, the first official World's Fair in the United States, was held in
PhiladelphiaPennsylvania, from May 10 to November 10, 1876, to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence in Philadelphia.

Information from Wikipedia.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 04:49 PM, Jack Mullen wrote:
Possibly the exhibit is listed under NYC&HR, per the sign at the right end of the pavilion roof?
Yeah, sorry, I think I introduced exposition into this discussion, also thinking of the World's Columbian...

It's interesting that just a dozen years after Matthew Brady, the entire Exhibition grounds was photographed in exceedingly high resolution. While I did find the Hungarian Wine Pavilion, I can't find the Harrisburg Car Co. A full list of exhibitors would at least prove they, or the NYC&HRR, were NOT there, but while the library says they have such a list, it is not available on line.

The other way to date this would be to establish dates of use for the Red Line, Blue Line, White Line, etc., but I'm satisfied it is 1870's or early eighties at the latest. Nobody models that period anyway, and IIRC it is actually out of scope for this list.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Richard,
 
There is a sign on the roof over the three cars on the left, NYC&HRRR red Line, White Line and Blue Line cars respectively from left to right, that reads: “The New York Central & Hudson River Rail Road Company” on the upper line and “Freight Taken From the Atlantic to the Pacific Without Transfer” on the lower line.  The roof over the MDT car has a sign that reads: “Merchants Dispatch Transportation Co.”  Unfortunately, I can’t make out the rest of the message.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit
 
Roger Hinman's Merchants Despatch book has a couple of related photos of the same exhibit on p. 90. According to the captions it was the NYC&HR RR's display at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial. I know that's not conclusive, but it does support the other evidence of it being the Centennial exhibition.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 4:49 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Dennis,

I suppose the library may have miscategorized the photos, but the numbering and style of the caption block is certainly consistent with that on other photos clearly of Centennial exhibits.

Possibly the exhibit is listed under NYC&HR, per the sign at the right end of the pavilion roof?

An apology; my post looks like a rather stupid reply to yours, but it's actually a direct reply to the OP before I saw you had covered the matter in more detail. And my bad for Exposition instead of Exhibition. I suppose I have the Columbian and other later fairs more firmly lodged in my mind.

Jack Mullen


Re: Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Richard Townsend
 

Roger Hinman's Merchants Despatch book has a couple of related photos of the same exhibit on p. 90. According to the captions it was the NYC&HR RR's display at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial. I know that's not conclusive, but it does support the other evidence of it being the Centennial exhibition.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 4:49 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Dennis,

I suppose the library may have miscategorized the photos, but the numbering and style of the caption block is certainly consistent with that on other photos clearly of Centennial exhibits.

Possibly the exhibit is listed under NYC&HR, per the sign at the right end of the pavilion roof?

An apology; my post looks like a rather stupid reply to yours, but it's actually a direct reply to the OP before I saw you had covered the matter in more detail. And my bad for Exposition instead of Exhibition. I suppose I have the Columbian and other later fairs more firmly lodged in my mind.

Jack Mullen


Re: Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Jack Mullen
 

Dennis,

I suppose the library may have miscategorized the photos, but the numbering and style of the caption block is certainly consistent with that on other photos clearly of Centennial exhibits.

Possibly the exhibit is listed under NYC&HR, per the sign at the right end of the pavilion roof?

An apology; my post looks like a rather stupid reply to yours, but it's actually a direct reply to the OP before I saw you had covered the matter in more detail. And my bad for Exposition instead of Exhibition. I suppose I have the Columbian and other later fairs more firmly lodged in my mind.

Jack Mullen


ERDX Reefers.

Armand Premo
 

Looking for information about ERDX Reefers.Are there any current models that are close?Armand Premo


Re: Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Dennis Storzek
 

Yeah, but I can't find it in the list of exhibits. There is a building in the western most portion of the grounds that is labeled "saw mill" that looks suspiciously like the pavilion over the cars, but it is consistently labeled saw mill on all the maps of the Exposition grounds.

It is possible it was  privately sponsored and off site, I suppose. The equipment all lettered for fast freight lines dates it to the days before free interchange, which certainly dates it before the formation of the Interstate Commerce Commission in 1887, but it's hard to tell how long before.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Jack Mullen
 

Being an exhibit for the Centennial Exposition dates it to 1876.

Jack Mullen


Re: Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Dennis Storzek
 

I suspect they are exhibits at the Centennial International Exhibition of 1876, the first official World's Fair in the United States, was held in
PhiladelphiaPennsylvania, from May 10 to November 10, 1876, to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence in Philadelphia.

Information from Wikipedia.

Dennis Storzek


Harrisburg Car Co.'s Exhibit

Bob Chaparro
 

Here are two more photo links from the Free Library of Philadelphia. These show new freight cars exhibited by the Harrisburg Car Company:

https://libwww.freelibrary.org/digital/item/1646

https://libwww.freelibrary.org/digital/item/1647

These appear to be pre-1900 cars as they have link-and-pin couplers.

Can anyone date this photo?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Tank Car: HMHX 6012

Dennis Storzek
 

The problem is they don't teach English in the schools anymore. The intern who wrote the caption meant to say its an earlier era photo of a currently vacant industrial plant.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Tank Car: HMHX 6012

dave w
 

I'd take the "Notes' description with a grain of salt.
You do not find steam venting from "vacated industrial plants" . Given Creation Date: 12/8/1949  it seems to fall within a span of significance as the logo sign on the  water tower is by no means aged.
Someone is keeping resources running, otherwise, why would a tank car be sitting in the yard?
d


Re: 1923 Buicks On Grand Trunk Flat Car

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

An interesting new/old style of what is now called and "auto rack"!

Cordially, Don Valentine

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 02:01 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
Someone reminded me of this Westerfield kit: https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=98_295&products_id=489
Those really don't count, since they are end doors, not ends. The equipment diagram for that lot shows the other end is a normal solid end with horizontal corrugations. I believe those end doors were a Murphy product. There is a general arrangement drawing in the 1922 CBC of a U.P. auto car with similar ends. The opposite end of that car is a three panel Murphy end similar to what was used on USRA boxcars.

I've also finally had a chance to look at Art Million's Pere Marquette freightcar book. Turns out the "outie" vertical corrugated ends on the automobile cars 85000-85999 were also Murphy products according to the equipment diagrams reproduced in the book.

That leaves the W&LE cars as the only known example of the vertical Vulcan ends. I wouldn't worry about the "outie" ends with tapering ribs shown in the advertising text in the 1919 CBC as I doubt they ever made in into production. You'll note the the illustration that accompanies the text appears to be a heavily retouched photo, possibly of one of the W&LE cars, used to illustrate a concept that was likely never put into production.

Dennis Storzek


Re: My railroad materials

Steve SANDIFER
 

I will agree. In writing my livestock operations book I longed for simple little non descript books like the records of livestock forwarded or records of livestock shipped. You would be amazed at how scarce they are. People thought them useless and threw them away.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] My railroad materials

 

Tim, I would say that the Conductor’s books are in fact “genuine, primary archival materials.”  They were created by actual railroaders in the pursuit of their work, it doesn’t get much more authentic, on-the-ground recording of “what really happened.:  Granted a single book may contain anomalies, but an entire book will cover the normal run of what was carried in regular normal trains.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 2:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] My railroad materials

 


For people with genuine, primary archival materials - of whatever kind -
I agree this can be difficult to figure out. I have virtually no materials
of this kind - conductor's books, cyclopedias, a few other genuine railroad
publications is all. I'm confident that none of them are unique, and therefore
I'm happy to instruct my heirs to sell them (Ebay etc) - or keep anything they
like. I figure if someone is willing to pay money to own them, then whatever
protection they receive will be because a new person values them. In the end
I think "continuous custody" is the only long term solution. Even museums and
official archives can be impermanent. (Maybe I'm thinking of the horrific fire
yesterday in Brazil that destroyed literally millions of items collected over
the previous 200 years.)


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: My railroad materials

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tim, I would say that the Conductor’s books are in fact “genuine, primary archival materials.”  They were created by actual railroaders in the pursuit of their work, it doesn’t get much more authentic, on-the-ground recording of “what really happened.:  Granted a single book may contain anomalies, but an entire book will cover the normal run of what was carried in regular normal trains.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 2:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] My railroad materials

 


For people with genuine, primary archival materials - of whatever kind -
I agree this can be difficult to figure out. I have virtually no materials
of this kind - conductor's books, cyclopedias, a few other genuine railroad
publications is all. I'm confident that none of them are unique, and therefore
I'm happy to instruct my heirs to sell them (Ebay etc) - or keep anything they
like. I figure if someone is willing to pay money to own them, then whatever
protection they receive will be because a new person values them. In the end
I think "continuous custody" is the only long term solution. Even museums and
official archives can be impermanent. (Maybe I'm thinking of the horrific fire
yesterday in Brazil that destroyed literally millions of items collected over
the previous 200 years.)


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: My railroad materials

Jared Harper
 

Thanks Denny.

Your long letter gave me something to ponder.  I am considering several possible destinations materials.  The CSRM is not one of them.  At the top of my list are the Santa Fe Rwy. Historical and Modeling Society's archives at Temple, TX, and the Kansas State Historical Society.

Jared Harper


Tank Car: HMHX 6012

Bob Chaparro
 

Here is another photo link from the Free Library of Philadelphia:

https://libwww.freelibrary.org/digital/item/44466

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

The three compartment tank car appears to be HMHX 6012. Two sources list the owner as Tank Car Corp. Of America.

Comment for the photo: "View of a vacated industrial plant. Location was the site of the Union Petroleum Company, circa 1910. Then the Sinclair Refining Company, circa 1942. Circa 1962 the location belonged to the Paint Manufacturing Company. Demolish date sometime after 1962."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Bill Welch
 


Re: 1923 Buicks On Grand Trunk Flat Car

Richard Brennan
 

As mentioned by Ralph and Bob...
Here is the high-rez positive
Attribution: 1923 Buicks. [Photographic Prints]. Retrieved from https://libwww.freelibrary.org/digital/item/30581
--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

At 11:50 AM 9/4/2018, Ralph W. Brown wrote:
Thanks for posting the link. I was able to convert it to a positive. There are what appear to be touring cars, nine of them, loaded aboard GT 69907. The upper portion of the the first four digits of the number are obscured by a board to which a brace has been nailed, so the “6â€

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