Date   
Re: on the left, there is a B&O gon

O Fenton Wells
 

And right behind that is a Southern SU boxcar.  Just say'in
Fenton Wells

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 3:47 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
I noticed an odd thing on this photo - on the left, there is a B&O gon. It seems to me that two of the gon panels extend lower down than the rest do. Is this an illusion or other photographic artifact? A repair? A complete anomaly?
 
 
Claus Schlund
 




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: on the left, there is a B&O gon

al_brown03
 

Does it have a hopper bottom, maybe, or did it?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

on the left, there is a B&O gon

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I noticed an odd thing on this photo - on the left, there is a B&O gon. It seems to me that two of the gon panels extend lower down than the rest do. Is this an illusion or other photographic artifact? A repair? A complete anomaly?
 
 
Claus Schlund
 

Second Annual Carolinas RPM meet in Winston-Salem, NC October 19-20, 2018

twsicrr
 

We are announcing the second Carolinas RPM.  Please see below:

CAROLINA SCHOOL of PROTOTYPE RAILROAD MODELING 
October 19-20, 2018
Forsyth County Cooperative Extension Center
1450 Fairchild Road, 
Winston Salem, NC 27105

A Different Kind of RPM Get Hands-On!

Speakers Include:
Tony Sissons, Fenton Wells, Bob Harpe, Brian Banna, Tom Sinks, Rick Bell, Dustin Whitten, Ken Rickman, James Wall and others!

Tentative Speaker list:


[The covered hopper clinic is about steam era converted and purpose-built covered hoppers from 1912 to 1953.]

Demonstrations by:
Daniel Arant, Butch Eyler, Dave Schroedle, Tony Sissons, and Brian Banna

SEND $25 REGISTRATION TO:
Carolina Model Railroaders
c/o Kevin von der Lippe 
Post Office Box 13642 Greensboro, NC. 27415

Include your name, if interested in the Bash & Build of the SR HO Scale 1953 3-bay 70- ton Southern Hopper/Clay Car, and contact information with your payment.

For More Information
Visit our webpage at
https://sissonstony.wixsite.com/rpm-carolina

or Kevin at 336-908-2321

REGISTRATION

For: ________________________________

Email:__________________________

Phone:_________________________

Circle one:

____ Yes, I want to be part of the SR Coal Hopper Bash & Build.
or
____ Yes, I want to be part of the SR Clay Hopper Bash & Build. 
or
____ No,  I will not participate in this year’s Bash & Build.

Free parts to build Bash and Build go to the first 25 paid registrants.


Tom Sinks
126 Connally St.
Black Mountain, NC 28711
Twsgso@...
336-202-3545

Re: NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

Armand Premo
 

I rarely question the modeling skills of the members of this group.For the most part, I have learned a great deal .I try to model what I can document.A few years back I became aware of the large number of Berwind hoppers that would arrive in Alburgh on train #10 of the Rutland.They were interchanged with the Central Vermont and would be of- line for  about a week then return as empties leaving on Train  # 9.I finally found out where they had been going.So I have modeled several Berwind hoppers.The same can be said of several Central Vermont boxcars.They were in assigned service and returned regularly.Armand Premo

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
About a year ago I saw a photo of a B&O hopper in the wilds of British Columbia, about 1950. Anything is possible…

       Anything? Maybe, but credible modeling depends on a minimum of surprising modeling. My criterion in matters like this is to avoid anything I would have to "explain."
        Of course you also have to consider your "audience" and its knowledge.

Tony Thompson




Re: NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

anthony wagner
 

In the recent past there has been much discussion on this site of what cars were likely to show up in trains on various RRs. The conclusion seems to have been that in the Post WWII era, which is the focus of many in this group, that car service rules were frequently ignored with the result that for unassigned ordinary cars, regardless of ownership, just about anything could show up anywhere at any time. Empty cars were frequently loaded in the opposite direction of what would have been dictated if car service Rule 2 was followed. Such things as, for example, empty Canadian cars loaded in northern areas for destinations further south or west or empty western or southern cars loaded for movement away from the owning road. At least one person was able to cite ICC or AAR statistics that because of the disruptions of the war years it took decades for the railroads to adhere more closely to the car service rules. The point being that within the time period of this group such things as a southern RR owned car being loaded in say Pennsylvania or Ohio for a destination in New England wouldn't have been too unusual.  Tony Wagner


On Monday, September 10, 2018 10:16 AM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


About a year ago I saw a photo of a B&O hopper in the wilds of British Columbia, about 1950. Anything is possible…

       Anything? Maybe, but credible modeling depends on a minimum of surprising modeling. My criterion in matters like this is to avoid anything I would have to "explain."
        Of course you also have to consider your "audience" and its knowledge.

Tony Thompson





Re: PASSING COMMENTARY

Tom Madden
 

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 06:24 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
Martin left us about four years ago and Sunshine shut down.
Actually, it's closer to six years. Martin went into the hospital in September 2012 because his meds were making him weak, and passed away in early January 2013. If his son, Charles, is less than gracious at this point I suspect he's reflecting his mother's irritation at being asked repeatedly to do the impossible - pick up the loose ends of a business that closed almost six years ago, the products of said business she has no way of recreating. As for Charles, he is no longer the boy and young man who folded boxes and packed kits for his dad. He has an advanced degree in (I think) aerospace engineering and it's unreasonable, all these years later, to expect him to view our complaints as anything other than a nuisance. He, his sister, their families and their mother deserve to be left alone. Yes, things fell apart for Sunshine after Martin was hospitalized on a trip to Timonium and quality suffered. But let me tell you, from immediate, first hand experience, when you're dealing with the final illness and loss of a spouse, nothing else in your life seems very important.

Let it go.

Tom Madden.

Re: NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

Tony Thompson
 

About a year ago I saw a photo of a B&O hopper in the wilds of British Columbia, about 1950. Anything is possible…

       Anything? Maybe, but credible modeling depends on a minimum of surprising modeling. My criterion in matters like this is to avoid anything I would have to "explain."
        Of course you also have to consider your "audience" and its knowledge.

Tony Thompson



Re: NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

Kemal Mumcu
 

About a year ago I saw a photo of a B&O hopper in the wilds of British Columbia, about 1950. Anything is possible...

Colin Meikle

MTH USRA Hopper was NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

Bruce Smith
 

Bill, Folks,

Back when we discussed this model in 2011 it became clear that some of the MTH models did come with the lever handbrake. The PRR version is currently advertised as such, but mine (from 2011) has a horizontal brake wheel.

I’ll note that I reviewed this car for TKM (Autumn, 2011) some time ago, and that review contained an error, in that I dissed the car for the odd routing of the brake pipe all the way up the side to the end sill and then in to where it turns again to the hose connection. Eric Hansmann pointed out to me that, at least at the B-end of the car, this routing is correct.

My PRR car has been stripped and is awaiting some minor repairs (replace sill steps) and paint and decals as an M&St.L. car.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Sep 10, 2018, at 7:20 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

In looking at the Ebay selections I did see one w/lever hand brake. Hard to tell if any of them have AB Brakes but I did see one with a reweigh date of 1956 and there are several latter paint schemes that would require AB brakes. I am not saying this as a criticism but more to be careful to make sure one is getting what they want unless they intend to do extra work.

Bill Welch

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Eric Hansmann
 

I would think the crossbearers on these W&LE boxcars would be located at the base of the right door post on each side. The doors are offset so there is no straight path across to join each door post. 

The KC brake system would fit easier that way, too.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On September 9, 2018 at 4:22 PM al_brown03 <abrown@...> wrote:

Anyone know where the main crossbearers were located? I can think of at least two possible locations ("wide" and "narrow", by analogy with door-and-a-half designs).

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: Modeling Those WLE SS cars w/7-ft doors

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 03:22 PM, al_brown03 wrote:
Anyone know where the main crossbearers were located? I can think of at least two possible locations ("wide" and "narrow", by analogy with door-and-a-half designs).
If you can find a clear photo of the side, you can make that determination by the location of the rivets that attach the crossbearers to the side sill. There is a side view photo published on page 401 of the 1922 CBC (and likely other places) used to illustrate the Camel No. 50 door hardware, but my copy isn't clear enough to show the rivets.

Dennis Storzek

Re: NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

Bill Welch
 

In looking at the Ebay selections I did see one w/lever hand brake. Hard to tell if any of them have AB Brakes but I did see one with a reweigh date of 1956 and there are several latter paint schemes that would require AB brakes. I am not saying this as a criticism but more to be careful to make sure one is getting what they want unless they intend to do extra work.

Bill Welch

Re: hoppers (was NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper)

Armand Premo
 

Tim,It was just passing commentary to show the CN's presence on the Rutland along with a single NC&StL hopper.While there were no CN hoppers present.Armand Premo

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 10:44 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

 > For the record, 186 CN cars passed through Alburgh,Vt on train # 9 during the month of November 1950.
 > Armand Premo

uh, ok, I'll bite. what does this mean? you mean CN coal hoppers? where does coal come
from that is loaded into CN hoppers and travels through Vermont?


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: hoppers (was NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper)

Tim O'Connor
 


 > For the record, 186 CN cars passed through Alburgh,Vt on train # 9 during the month of November 1950.
 > Armand Premo

uh, ok, I'll bite. what does this mean? you mean CN coal hoppers? where does coal come
from that is loaded into CN hoppers and travels through Vermont?


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: PASSING COMMENTARY

Tim O'Connor
 

Don

Bill was only saying we can criticize the PRODUCT without turning it into
personal comments about people. I'm pretty sure that's longstanding Mike Brock
policy.

I have more than a few Sunshine kits with incorrect or missing parts. Models
from China, not infrequently, are missing parts. Most of us can overcome such
problems.

Tim O'



Unfortunately Bill Pardie in some cases one was purchasing mediocrity. It all depended on
who the master was built by as Martin seemed to use several people. If Frank Hodina built
the maser you know you had a great kit. Some other were less than great and getting a
defective part replaced from Marin was always a pain in the seat of one's pants even if
Martin was doing his best. Tricia often tried to help as well but I have kits here that have
problems that will probably relegate them to the never being built lot.

Cordially, Don Valentine - who also has problems meeting a customer's needs on occasion.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Eric,
 
According to John Teichmoeller’s Pennsylvania Railroad Steel Open Hopper Cars, 300 of the 4,500 USRA hoppers originally allocated to the PRR and PRR Lines West were delivered to the LIRR numbered LI 5000-5299.  The remaining 4,200 cars were never built.  The materials for those cars were diverted and used to build 3,000 of the PRR’s then new Class H25 quad hoppers.  Based on ORER data, the LI’s 300 cars had left the LI’s listing by October of 1929 and then appeared in the PRR’s ORER listing as Class GLd numbered PRR 220000-220299.  See: Teichmoeller, pp 140-143.  Page 140, incidentally, has a photographs of PRR 220152 ca. 1937 lettered in the PRR’s CK freight scheme.  The last of these cars wasn’t gone from the PRR’s ORER listing until 1959 or 1960.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2018 8:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper
 
As far as true USRA assigned hoppers, only four road names are correct; B&O, C&O, NYC, PRR. The Pennsy assigned theirs to the Long Island so I’m uncertain if any wore the Circle Keystone or later PRR lettering. Here’s a link to the original USRA freight car assignments. 
 
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 
Some of those roads may have had very similar cars (WM) or clones that were built after USRA control.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 

On Sep 8, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

There are several on eBay. I did not try to count the Foobies: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=MTH+USRA+hopper&_sacat=0

Bill Welch

Re: PASSING COMMENTARY

Donald B. Valentine
 

Unfortunately Bill Pardie in some cases one was purchasing mediocrity. It all depended on 
who the master was built by as Martin seemed to use several people. If Frank Hodina built 
the maser you know you had a great kit. Some other were less than great and getting a 
defective part replaced from Marin was always a pain in the seat of one's pants even if
Martin was doing his best. Tricia often tried to help as well but I have kits here that have 
problems that will probably relegate them to the never being built lot.

Cordially, Don Valentine - who also has problems meeting a customer's needs on occasion.

Re: NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

Benjamin Hom
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:
"As far as true USRA assigned hoppers, only four road names are correct; B&O, C&O, NYC, PRR. The Pennsy assigned theirs to the Long Island so I’m uncertain if any wore the Circle Keystone or later PRR lettering."

They did.  LIRR 5200-5299 renumbered to PRR 220000-220299.  Photos of PRR 220152 and 220098 in CK in Teichmoeller's Pennsylvania Railroad Steel Open Hopper Cars, page 140 and 142.


Ben Hom

Re: NC&StL HM-11 Two-Bay Hopper

Todd Horton
 

There’s a few published photos of  C of Ga hoppers in Canada.  Did it happen often? Probably not but it did happen 


On Sep 9, 2018, at 6:50 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


The distance from the Ohio River to Detroit, say, is about 300 miles, while
it is about 800 miles from the Ohio River (Cincinnati) to New England. That plus
the idea that it's all bituminous coal down there, not anthracite, would seem to
argue against frequent deliveries to New England of coal off the L&N or NC&StL.
But the occasional wandering hopper, I can believe that...

Tim O'Connor




I have no idea about NC&StL hoppers in New England but I know L&N hoppers regularly took Appalachian mined coal to Canada.

Ya'll Roads Rule!

Bill Welch

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts