Re: Poultry Cars

Ralph W. Brown

Doug, Dave, et al.,

Doug said - “In her presentation, Kristen said the mesh on the car at St Louis measured: 1/8” woven wire, 1.5”x1.5” vertical diamond pattern.”

Diamond patterns are typically described by their axis dimensions, so doing the math the mesh would be 1.06066” square and rotated 45 degrees. Eighth inch wire would be 0.001435” diameter, and the mesh would be 0.01248” x 0.01248”.  That would be, I think, about 82 mesh of 0.0014 wire.  As it turns out, there is actually a stainless steel mesh that comes reasonably close!  It is T316 stainless “high transparency” 0.0012” wire 80 mesh, but it’s more than a bit pricey starting at \$19.50/sq. ft. for 1-24 sq. ft. with a minimum order of \$100.00.  A full 4’ x 100’ roll goes for \$1,950.00, which drops the price per sq. ft. to \$4.88.

It looks like pretty amazing stuff, but given the very small quantities most of might need, I think suspect we.d need a fair sized group to make a purchase worthwhile.  A 3” x 3” sample or “swatch” is also available for \$10.00 (\$40.00/sq. ft.).

Pax,

Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

From: Dave Parker via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 11:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

Nelson:

To get 1.5 x 1.5" openings in HO scale, one could consider ~40 mesh screen with ~0.017" openings.

The problem with metal screens for Kristin's application is the wire size -- 1/8" wire in HO scale would be 0.0014", which is much finer than the wire in any of the commercial metal screens, brass or stainless.   "Traditional" chicken wire would be even more problematic given how fine the wire is there.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Re: Poultry Cars

Dave Parker

Nelson:

To get 1.5 x 1.5" openings in HO scale, one could consider ~40 mesh screen with ~0.017" openings.

The problem with metal screens for Kristin's application is the wire size -- 1/8" wire in HO scale would be 0.0014", which is much finer than the wire in any of the commercial metal screens, brass or stainless.   "Traditional" chicken wire would be even more problematic given how fine the wire is there.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Re: Poultry Cars

Nelson Moyer

400 mesh specs are 400x400 per in., opening size 0.0013 in. sq., 0.0010 in. wire diameter. This mesh was used for window screed, so it’s smaller than chicken wire. Anyone interested in chicken wire should have no trouble finding a suitable mesh on the TWP web page, just look at the spec. chart and match 0.0172 in. sq. Turn the wire 45° for a diamond pattern.

Nelson Moyer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 9:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

In her presentation, Kristen said the mesh on the car at St Louis measured:

1/8” woven wire, 1.5”x1.5” vertical diamond pattern

In HO that calls for a  0.0172 x 0.0172 mesh

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 6:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

Nelson,

Where did you she her presentation?  I'm one of those whom work kept me from attending.

The screen I measured on the existent poultry car in StL, IIRC, is a rather simple welded wire diamond mesh pattern of ~ 1.1" x 1.1" square.

Cheers,

Jake

Re: Poultry Cars

Douglas Harding

In her presentation, Kristen said the mesh on the car at St Louis measured:

1/8” woven wire, 1.5”x1.5” vertical diamond pattern

In HO that calls for a  0.0172 x 0.0172 mesh

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 6:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

Nelson,

Where did you she her presentation?  I'm one of those whom work kept me from attending.

The screen I measured on the existent poultry car in StL, IIRC, is a rather simple welded wire diamond mesh pattern of ~ 1.1" x 1.1" square.

Cheers,

Jake

Re: Poultry Cars

Nelson Moyer

Kristin,

I can guarantee that you will be able to find scale mesh on that web site. My 400 mesh was perfect for my horse cars. You could see objects thought it when it was backlighted. I don’t remember the HO scale size of the mesh, but if you get too small of a mesh, it becomes opaque. The web site give the actual dimensions, so you can do the scale conversion and choose the right mesh.

Nelson Moyer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kristin Dummler
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 6:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

Nelson,

Thank you for the source. I will definitely give them a look. The hard part is getting something with openings small enough to be to scale.

Kristin Dummler

On 10/26/2018 3:48 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

I just read Kristin Dummler’s presentation on live poultry shipping, a clinic I couldn’t fit into my schedule in Lisle. It was quite informative and the photos were outstanding. Kristin mentioned that the jury was still out on a suitable mesh for modeling these cars, and since I couldn’t find an email address to go direct, I’m posting the information here for all to see. I built a 1914 CB&Q horse car which required window screens. Searching the web, I found a link for a company that sells stainless steel screen in many mesh sizes, and I used their 400 mesh screen for my horse car. The URL is:

www.twpinc.com

They will send samples if you’re not sure which size best fits your needs. I’m sure that Kristin will be able to find the perfect screen for her poultry cars on this site. Because they have a minimum order size, I went in with several other modelers on a group order to share the cost. Contact me directly if you want more information on this product.

Nelson Moyer

Re: Poultry Cars

Nelson Moyer

I downloaded her PowerPoint presentation from the Chicagoland RPM web site. Given that you know the screen size, it should be easy to figure out which mesh size matches.

Nelson Moyer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 6:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

Nelson,

Where did you she her presentation?  I'm one of those whom work kept me from attending.

The screen I measured on the existent poultry car in StL, IIRC, is a rather simple welded wire diamond mesh pattern of ~ 1.1" x 1.1" square.

Cheers,

Jake

Re: Poultry Cars

Kristin Dummler

Jake,

You can actually get to the complete presentation and handout here:

http://trainmodeler.com/clinic-handouts/

Your measurement memory is pretty good. The screen is actually 1/8" wire in a 1.5" x 1.5" diamond pattern. I was lucky enough to get a volunteer at the museum to get in and get actual measurements off the car.

Kristin D.

On 10/26/2018 6:26 PM, Jake Schaible wrote:

Nelson,

Where did you she her presentation?  I'm one of those whom work kept me from attending.

The screen I measured on the existent poultry car in StL, IIRC, is a rather simple welded wire diamond mesh pattern of ~ 1.1" x 1.1" square.

Cheers,

Jake

Re: Poultry Cars

Kristin Dummler

Nelson,

Thank you for the source. I will definitely give them a look. The hard part is getting something with openings small enough to be to scale.

Kristin Dummler

On 10/26/2018 3:48 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

I just read Kristin Dummler’s presentation on live poultry shipping, a clinic I couldn’t fit into my schedule in Lisle. It was quite informative and the photos were outstanding. Kristin mentioned that the jury was still out on a suitable mesh for modeling these cars, and since I couldn’t find an email address to go direct, I’m posting the information here for all to see. I built a 1914 CB&Q horse car which required window screens. Searching the web, I found a link for a company that sells stainless steel screen in many mesh sizes, and I used their 400 mesh screen for my horse car. The URL is:

www.twpinc.com

They will send samples if you’re not sure which size best fits your needs. I’m sure that Kristin will be able to find the perfect screen for her poultry cars on this site. Because they have a minimum order size, I went in with several other modelers on a group order to share the cost. Contact me directly if you want more information on this product.

Nelson Moyer

55 Ton Fishbelly Hopper Cars

David

CNJ 31' IL, 11' EH, 2028cf
67000-67999, 1942

D&H 29' IL, 10'3" EH, 1764cf
2300-2499, 1941-2 some 40T
2500-2899, 1946-7
4201-4350, 1947-8 some 40T

D&H 30'11" IL, 10'5" EH, 1860cf
4701-5700, 1939-40
5701-6100, 1942

LV 31' IL, 10'5" EH, 1860cf
25000-25499, 1939

LV 31' IL, 10'8" EH, 1936cf
25500-25939, 1942

N&W class HL, 31' IL, 11' EH, 1998 cf
22000-23999, 1936
24000-25999, 1937
67500-69999, 1937
38000-39999, 1939
57500-59999, 1939
67000-67499, 1939
56500-57499, 1940

copies of N&W HL:
ACL 81500-81999, 1940
NS 9000-9049, 1941

RDG, 31' IL, 11' EH, 2028cf
80000-80999, 1941
67000-67338, 1942
65000-65999, 1944

RDG composite, 31'IL, 11' EH, 1936cf
67339-67999, 1943
66000-66999, 1944

WM, 31' IL, 11' EH, 2028cf
10001-10800, 1942
10801-13400
13401-14400, 1953

WM, 32'8" IL, 10'9" EH
14401-14900, 1958

David Thompson

Re: Poultry Cars

Jake Schaible

Nelson,

Where did you she her presentation?  I'm one of those whom work kept me from attending.

The screen I measured on the existent poultry car in StL, IIRC, is a rather simple welded wire diamond mesh pattern of ~ 1.1" x 1.1" square.

Cheers,

Jake

Re: 55 Ton Fishbelly Hopper Cars

David Payne

Thanks to Tony and Ben for your replies.
David Payne

Re: Ann Arbor Boxcar

Gene Green <genegreen1942@...>

Dan, and anyone else interested, I have a copy directly from the Miner organization of one of the 24" hand wheels.  If anyone, or any manufacturer, would like a copy, I would be happy to oblige.
Gene Green

Poultry Cars

Nelson Moyer

I just read Kristin Dummler’s presentation on live poultry shipping, a clinic I couldn’t fit into my schedule in Lisle. It was quite informative and the photos were outstanding. Kristin mentioned that the jury was still out on a suitable mesh for modeling these cars, and since I couldn’t find an email address to go direct, I’m posting the information here for all to see. I built a 1914 CB&Q horse car which required window screens. Searching the web, I found a link for a company that sells stainless steel screen in many mesh sizes, and I used their 400 mesh screen for my horse car. The URL is:

www.twpinc.com

They will send samples if you’re not sure which size best fits your needs. I’m sure that Kristin will be able to find the perfect screen for her poultry cars on this site. Because they have a minimum order size, I went in with several other modelers on a group order to share the cost. Contact me directly if you want more information on this product.

Nelson Moyer

Re: CLINIC INFORMATION

skibbs4

Mike Skibbe

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:38 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

In addition to Tony’s weathering clinic Chris Vanco put on an excellent clinicon weathering at Chicagoland.  Is there an on line
handout available?

Bill Pardie

Re: Time to call in Columbo?

golden1014

Sure looks like a rebuilt IC car to me, Marty.

John Golden

FGE reefers book

Tim O'Connor

now that we have an ART book, what's the story on getting an FGE book?
too large a subject?

Tim O'Connor

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Rapido NP boxcar, K brake question

Eric Hansmann

Ralph,

I do not intend to try replicating the center bead sheathing.

As for other weigh date decals, I used this Black Cat set on a Yarmouth boxcar and need to check if there are extra dates on the remaining sheet.

http://www.blackcatdecals.com/product/np14689-northern-pacific-pre-ww2-boxcars-single-double-sheath/

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 12:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido NP boxcar, K brake question

Hi Eric,

I too bought a four-pack of the pre-war cars, only one of which I have yet to remove from its box.  I agree they are amazing.

Do you have any particular source of decals in mind for changing the reweigh date?

The air reservoir stencil on the car I examined, incidentally, is right side up.  Yes, I had to read it with a strong magnifying glass!

Although I plan to use these cars in a 1920s era setting, I haven’t decided yet whether to remove the upper-most grab on the left end.  Rapido may have made only one basic version of the car, but the pre-war cars do have K, rather than AB, brakes.

Regarding the sheathing, do I understand correctly that you intend to replicate the center-bead board siding?  If so, I’d be very interested in how you’re planning to do that.

All things considered, I think these cars are a great addition to the roster.

Pax,

Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

From: Eric Hansmann

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 12:25 PM

To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido NP boxcar, K brake question

Yes. I got a four-pack of the Pre-War cars. Three of them will be sent to others modeling the 1920s and 1930s. Out of the box, these models look downright amazing.

In a quick overview I noticed a couple of things.

- The models have a 1937 reweigh date. NP lettering was spartan so a paint out and a 1925 or 1926 reweigh date will be an easy fix.

- The stencil on the air reservoir on the brake casting is upside down, which made me chuckle. It's hard to read as it is.

- The model has two grabs on the left end of the car sides. The uppermost grab will need to be removed for a pre-1930 appearance. Rapido only had one basic version made and used different paint and lettering styles.

- The models are equipped with a metal Kadee-like coupler that I will change out to a preferred Accurail Proto:HO coupler.

- The wheels will need to be painted.

I was told at RPM Chicagoland that the basic car represents the rebuilt version so the sheathing is not reflective of the original center-bead board. This is difficult to see at a 12-inch view. It will be a pretty quick addition to my 1926 fleet.

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

It is not Folgers but. . .

Bill Welch

. . .nevertheless "good to the last drop." Opened on August 19, 2018 I used it until October 25. No thickening with only occasional clearing the nozzle with a piece of wire. Otherwise no special handling. Blister pack purchased sometime in 2016. DURO rocks.

Bill Welch

CLINIC INFORMATION

WILLIAM PARDIE

In addition to Tony’s weathering clinic Chris Vanco put on an excellent clinicon weathering at Chicagoland. Is there an on line
handout available?

Bill Pardie

Re: [Proto-Layouts] Time to call in Columbo?

Tim O'Connor

Ben, that was good advice! :-D

Here is the list of one-off box cars on the L&A roster in 1950. It sure looks like
other railroads were playing Demolition Derby with L&A box cars! :-D

Tim O'Connor

============================

I recommend going back into the L&A ORER listings looking for a one-off boxcar with dimensions consistent with one of these rebuilt automobile boxcars, with a check for a car consistent with PRR Class X29 in case my taller car assessment is incorrect.

Ben Hom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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