Date   
Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Peter Ness
 

Hi Randy,

 

If you really, really have to have Tungsten, our friends at Alumilite sell it in powder form by the ½ lb for USD20

https://www.alumilite.com/store/p/959-Tungsten-5lbs.aspx

 

I did not locate any reliable suppliers of Tungsten shot (several China or India on-line suppliers (They may be reliable but the product data was sparse enough to make me suspicious)

 

A couple of things to consider:

Be sure you are getting Tungsten;

Tungsten Carbide has a lower specific gravity than Tungsten – about halfway betwixt Lead and Tungsten.  Specific gravity of Tungsten Oxide is about half that of Lead.

Tungsten is  identified as a Conflict Mineral because of smelters located in or around the Democratic Republic of Congo that may be engaged in activities generally considered unsavory ranging from slave labor to human trafficking to arms smuggling.  At least a couple of smelters are connected to Russian citizens who are sanctioned by the US Government, hence the smelters are sanctioned as well.  Rest assured, all compliance requirements are on the purveyor of the Tungsten – none apply to the purchaser. Although if you purchase commercially and are registered with the SEC you are obligated to audit you Suppliers who are required to provide the smelters engaged in their supply chain, and if a red flag smelter is reported you are obligated to conduct due diligence with that Supplier or change Suppliers.

 

If I was going to consider the use of Tungsten powder/shot for adding weight, I would most likely fill the bulk of the void with Lead shot and use the Tungsten powder – perhaps mixed with the glue – to fill the spaces and cavities not filled by the shot. My thinking is that if the Lead shot is not quite enough to hit the desired weight target, adding some Tungsten powder may do the trick.

 

Something else just occurred to me; from scale aircraft modeling years back I bought a tube of Plumbers Epoxy.  Back then it only came in the copper-filled variety but is now available in steel and perhaps other types. I used it to add to add to the nose of front landing gear aircraft so they would not be “tail-sitters”.  It is easy to work with (cut a slice from the roll –it’s pre-mixed – knead to activate and shape, then apply. Maybe there is a possibility of application to center sills in freight car modeling? Get out your Lead shot, knead the epoxy in a long string, roll it to add the Lead shot (add Tungsten powder to taste if desired) and stuff it in the center sill? The epoxy weighs far more than glue or ACC and the shot will not escape – ever! Who knows, maybe I’ll try this on a flat car center still sometime and let you know what happens.

 

Peter Ness  

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 11:25 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

 

I wonder if that's tungsten shot. I've been trying to find a source for the smallest size shot in bulk, rather than buying shotgun shells and emptying them. This definitely looks like the stuff.

You can get it at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/DELUXE-MATERIALS-Liquid-Gravity-Weight/dp/B0047YORDQ

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:blog.newbritainstation.com

Re: Monon Decals

 

Here's a link to the decal sets that Mont offers for Monon cars. Unfortunately, there is no eMail address.

http://www.greatdecals.com/Switzer.htm

I used to model the Monon and can attest to the quality and research that he used in producing these. Set #301 covers the car that you were interested in.

Re: Poultry Cars

Douglas Harding
 

Those drawings were published in the Jan 1898 issue of Railroad Car Journal. The article included a photo of LPTC #507, the Chanticleer, along with detailed information about construction, included the wire size, ie #11. Attached are images large enough to read the dimensions and notes.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 12:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

 

Kristin,
Since such was not shown in your presentation, I thought you and others might appreciate to know that drawings of a LPTCo version of this ACF car appears in the 1916 Car Car Builders Dictionary.  This one isn't the same as the design of the PPKX car in St. Louis, as differences include the later's clearstory -ish roof vent.

Cheers,

Jake

 

Re: Poultry Cars

Kristin Dummler
 

Jake,

I didn't include the drawings in the presentation simply due to time constraints. That, and even projected, they can be difficult to read the dimensions. I have the drawings from 1893, 1912-3,  and I am waiting on the collection from the Pullman Library. They have a very large collection that had not been scanned until just recently. There are also some really good drawings to be had from the original patents that can be obtained through Google Patent.

I also learned at RPM Chicagoland that drawings exist of the reefer combo as well, although I have yet to have an opportunity to review those.

I'm happy to share if anyone wants copies of the drawings that I do have currently. Feel free to email me directly.

Kristin D.


On 10/29/2018 12:02 PM, Jake Schaible wrote:

Kristin,
Since such was not shown in your presentation, I thought you and others might appreciate to know that drawings of a LPTCo version of this ACF car appears in the 1916 Car Car Builders Dictionary.  This one isn't the same as the design of the PPKX car in St. Louis, as differences include the later's clearstory -ish roof vent.

Cheers,

Jake

 


Re: N&W B-5 box car

Brent Greer
 

These cars are quite interesting studies.  Originally they were built with roofs similar,  if not identical, to the Pennsy X37.  Later they were rebuilt with a more conventional roof as well as new ends.  Some of these cars even rode on high speed trucks. 

I've been working out a plan to do a bash of each of the 3 versions for some time now.

I also gave Steve Funaro an 8x10 builder photo  when I last saw him at Cocoa Beach.  He was interested in the project then, but I've heard nothing about it from him since then.

Brent
________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 12:40:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W B-5 box car
 
Arguably the ugliest 40-foot steel boxcar ever built, I have loved it since seeing a small print of one in the Bob Charles Collection at the NMRA on a visit in 1997. The ladders are crazy too.

Bill Welch

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Tim O'Connor
 


It isn't but I think tungsten shot is available for those really hard to weight
problems (like Detail Associates gondolas) - that's what you want to use.

In general Deluxe Materials has some really interesting and useful products. They
had a big display this past January at the Springfield show in Massachusetts.

For glue I wouldn't use CA for the shot - I'd use Elmer's "China and Glass Cement" which
is thin as water and dries rock hard in just a few minutes.

Tim O'




I wonder if that's tungsten shot. I've been trying to find a source for the smallest size shot in bulk, rather than buying shotgun shells and emptying them. This definitely looks like the stuff.

You can get it at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/DELUXE-MATERIALS-Liquid-Gravity-Weight/dp/B0047YORDQ

Randy

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Poultry Cars

Jake Schaible
 

Kristin,
Since such was not shown in your presentation, I thought you and others might appreciate to know that drawings of a LPTCo version of this ACF car appears in the 1916 Car Car Builders Dictionary.  This one isn't the same as the design of the PPKX car in St. Louis, as differences include the later's clearstory -ish roof vent.

Cheers,

Jake

 

Re: N&W B-5 box car

Bill Welch
 

Arguably the ugliest 40-foot steel boxcar ever built, I have loved it since seeing a small print of one in the Bob Charles Collection at the NMRA on a visit in 1997. The ladders are crazy too.

Bill Welch

Re: SP boxcar detail question

Paul Doggett
 

Pierre

I have Tony Thompson’s Southern Pacific Freight cars vol 4 and the ladders appear to be the same on the ends as the sides and I cannot see anything in the chapter that states anything different. Here’s two photos of the same car.
They were built in three different batch’s
83240-83739 General American
83740-84239 PSC
84240-84739 Bethlehem
I hope this helps.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

On 29 Oct 2018, at 13:34, Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

Recently I saw a photo that shows a SP B-50-20. The end ladder is clearly narrower than the side ladder.

The question is, did all the SP '37 AAR boxcars get built that way, or was it just that particular build loy?

Thanks

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com



Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Jeff
 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 9:12 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Randy/all,

We keep hearing guys talk about tungsten ... it doesn't "work" for me.

Although tungsten does have a higher specific gravity than lead/steel ... it is
not enough more to make a difference in terms of how much weight you can
actually add to your model trains. We don't use enough volume of weight
to make a difference.
Tungsten is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to cut/shape/size. Yes,
it can be cut/machined - but I haven't met anyone in the hobby with the
equipment to do so. I've never seen "tungsten shot".
To my way of thinking the only advantage to tungsten is that it isn't
magnetic. Neither is lead ...
<snip>

Have you heard of Tungsten powder?
https://www.amazon.com/Dynacraft-Tungsten-Powder-Jar-8-Ounce/dp/B00LU0W5CA/ref=sr_1_1

Or Tungsten putty?
https://www.amazon.com/PineSpeed-Tungsten-Pinewood-Fishing-Accessory/dp/B01DTOPDPA

Granted... it ain't cheap.

--
Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Jim Betz
 

Randy/all,

  We keep hearing guys talk about tungsten ... it doesn't "work" for me.

  Although tungsten does have a higher specific gravity than lead/steel ... it is
not enough more to make a difference in terms of how much weight you can
actually add to your model trains.  We don't use enough volume of weight
to make a difference.
  Tungsten is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to cut/shape/size.  Yes,
it can be cut/machined - but I haven't met anyone in the hobby with the
equipment to do so.  I've never seen "tungsten shot".
  To my way of thinking the only advantage to tungsten is that it isn't
magnetic.  Neither is lead ...

  I use lead shot and sheet lead.  I don't eat it.  I wash my hands with
simple soap and water after I handle it.  I 'encase' it in KK/white glue
so I don't worry about it after it is installed.
                                                                                             - Jim B.

Re: Monon Decals

 

Scott,

See Mont's decals here:

http://www.greatdecals.com/Switzer.htm#301n

Ordering information on the page.

The set you want is #301.  The earliest photo I have of a car with the white stripe scheme has a reweigh date of 6/52, the latest is  12/74; though I would ask Mont the question if that date is on the cusp for you.

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

Re: Poultry Cars

Jake Schaible
 

Stuart,

While I have yet to locate photos of poultry cars loaded on the Santa Fe in SoCal, I feel it is highly likely... at least in the 1920 & 1930 with Thanksgiving turkeys from Ramona. 

Ramona, CA was once known as the "turkey capital of the world" and I learned they originally had annual "turkey drives" where the town would get together to drive flocks "to the station".   This informal parade & season ending celebration evolved and by 1933 the event was formalized and popular with tourists till the last one in 1941 as WW2 cancelled the event.  At some point, the turkey drives died out, replaced by trucking.  

Live turkey from Ramona were shipped all over the US.  There is a local rumor that President Woodrow Wilson once pardoned a Ramona turkey at the White House, but others think it was Truman and still others think it was neither.  But the real mystery to me is what "station" was the destination of the original Ramona drives, as the town isn't on the track.  My theory is the first drives would have been to Escondido, CA, some 15 miles away, down the San Pasquale Valley.  

I'll make some calls to see if I can confirm...

 

 

 

 

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Donald B. Valentine
 

Randy,

    Why buy shotgun shells to empty the shot out of for car weights? I suggest that it is much cheaper to find a 
sports shop that sells reloading supplies and simply buy a back of lead shot, or steel if you prefer, The larger
the number the smaller the shot size. I suspect you could find all the shot you could use, either lead or steel 
from #7 /12 to #12 for around $35 for 10 lbs. I have lead shot for reloading purposes but prefer sheet lead for
additional weight on HO scale models. Some building supply firms still offer sheet lead for flashing work if
you need a source. I have all I'll ever need already.

Cordially, Don Valentine.

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Dave Parker
 

It is NOT tungsten.  Please reread last year's conversation as I suggested.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Randy Hammill
 

I wonder if that's tungsten shot. I've been trying to find a source for the smallest size shot in bulk, rather than buying shotgun shells and emptying them. This definitely looks like the stuff.

You can get it at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/DELUXE-MATERIALS-Liquid-Gravity-Weight/dp/B0047YORDQ

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:blog.newbritainstation.com

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

 Unfortunately it’s highly magnetic. It seems it’s ground cast iron or steel. As with all magnetcic materials that’s detrimental to the use of magnetic couplers like Kadee.

The large undertie Kadee magnets will "pull” such a weighted car from a couple inches away causing unwanted uncouplings.

Where the magnetic property is not important it’s a useful product. 

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 29, 2018, at 7:41 AM, gtws00 via Groups.Io <gtws00@...> wrote:

I found a product called Liquid Gravity from Deluxe Materials from the UK the other day in a catalog a friend gave me. Although it is apparently not new has anyone every used it to weight flat cars or gondolas. It appears to be very small pellets of non toxic material that is pour able and fixed in place with CA glue. Looks to be available on Amazon as well
Below is a link to the product and a video on its use.
https://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/en/rc-modelling/83-liquid-gravity-5060243900470.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtfsWZ7LnvU

George Toman <IMG_1534.JPG>

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Dave Parker
 

There was a lengthy discussion of this (overpriced) product in June of last year.  See message 149984 and all that follows it.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Re: Poultry Cars

Kristin Dummler
 

Stuart,

I haven't seen one specifically, but that doesn't mean they weren't there. A couple of photos show cars in CA (I have one from 1945 in Sacramento, and another in Stockton.) Pacific Wholesale Poultry in Petaluma had two of their own private cars. There was a Dairy, Swine and Poultry Special that ran in 1922 on the Atchison, Topeka, And Santa Fe RR. (Attachment)  It's a good likelihood there were some that made their way south.

While not Santa Fe, others might find interest in the book the Southern Pacific released called "Success with Poultry in California". The digital version can be found here:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b2751859;view=1up;seq=1


Kristin D.



On 10/29/2018 8:55 AM, Stuart Forsyth via Groups.Io wrote:
Shifting from mesh to operations, has anyone seen photos of poultry cars running on the Santa Fe in Southern California?

Stuart A. Forsyth

On Oct 29, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Here is an interior view of the “Brookport”. I’ll contact the person who sent me the photos and see if I can learn reason for the “Brookport” name.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kristin Dummler
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 6:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

 

Doug,

I believe you are correct. The FC Brown car was a very early design that allowed crates of birds to be stacked inside for transport. Note there is no caretaker stateroom. The crates would have been stacked floor to ceiling and, with no one to feed or water the birds, most would have lost weight, and many would have likely perished on the journey.

Excellent pictures of the car in St. Louis. I have not been able to find the car's specific name. Somewhere, I am sure there are records of what it was originally called, but once P.T.C. took over and took over the remaining cars from North American, a lot of them were just left with their original designations, such as the Palace name on the side sill. Somewhere there has to be a listing of the names of the cars. Hopefully it turns up one of these days.

Kristin D.

 

On 10/28/2018 9:46 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Attached are two photos of the car at the National Transportation Museum in St Louis, which I have listed as the Brookport. I don’t know if that name is correct, that is how the photos were named when they came to me. This car has eight layers of cages, the top one does a smaller “screen” on the exterior, no doubt because the fascia covered the upper part of the top cage.

 

Also attached is a very different poultry car, FC Brown #104. Which appears to be a full cage design, built by AFC in 1907. I can’t quite make out the lot #, looks like it could be 9637.

I suspect this car was designed to hold standard chicken crates. As Kristen pointed out in her presentation, farmers had a problem getting their chicken crates back, so cars of this design fell out of favor.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Attachments:

 


<Brookport 1770.JPG>


Re: Poultry Cars

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Sounds like that’s rather the way the Ambroid car was in the first place. It used external strips to represent the edges of the decks between the layers of of chickens. On the actual cars it’s more of an open slot, about 20% the height of the mesh strips. The Ambroid car makes no attempt to represent these slots. On some cars, somewhat vertically centered in the slots are the ends of the deck floorboards that Ambroid does represent. Thus each slot is split into two narrower slots by the deck boards. On other cars these deck boards are hardly visible at all, leaving just a single wider slot. The cars are not all exactly alike.

The Overland brass poultry car does represent these slots.

To my eyes the slots are at least as prominent as the deck boards, though this varies from car to car. Whatever. It’s a complicated side to model, and the mesh is only part of the problem.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 28, 2018, at 11:15 PM, frograbbit602 via Groups.Io <frograbbit602=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Dan may I suggest you can make the mesh cover all the coups on one side of the attendants quarters. I have built the coups using styrene for the floors placed in sides ( a bookcase look with top or bottom missing) that goes inside on each side. Once in place you cover the side entire side with the mesh. Now you cut strips or use strip styrene to glue to the interior floors on the outside of the mesh. You now have the look of mesh strips with the floors showing in-between. It makes the build easier using one large piece of mesh rather than strips cut to fit between floors.

Lester Breuer