Date   
Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Donald B. Valentine
 

Randy,

    Why buy shotgun shells to empty the shot out of for car weights? I suggest that it is much cheaper to find a 
sports shop that sells reloading supplies and simply buy a back of lead shot, or steel if you prefer, The larger
the number the smaller the shot size. I suspect you could find all the shot you could use, either lead or steel 
from #7 /12 to #12 for around $35 for 10 lbs. I have lead shot for reloading purposes but prefer sheet lead for
additional weight on HO scale models. Some building supply firms still offer sheet lead for flashing work if
you need a source. I have all I'll ever need already.

Cordially, Don Valentine.

Re: Poultry Cars

Jake Schaible
 

Stuart,

While I have yet to locate photos of poultry cars loaded on the Santa Fe in SoCal, I feel it is highly likely... at least in the 1920 & 1930 with Thanksgiving turkeys from Ramona. 

Ramona, CA was once known as the "turkey capital of the world" and I learned they originally had annual "turkey drives" where the town would get together to drive flocks "to the station".   This informal parade & season ending celebration evolved and by 1933 the event was formalized and popular with tourists till the last one in 1941 as WW2 cancelled the event.  At some point, the turkey drives died out, replaced by trucking.  

Live turkey from Ramona were shipped all over the US.  There is a local rumor that President Woodrow Wilson once pardoned a Ramona turkey at the White House, but others think it was Truman and still others think it was neither.  But the real mystery to me is what "station" was the destination of the original Ramona drives, as the town isn't on the track.  My theory is the first drives would have been to Escondido, CA, some 15 miles away, down the San Pasquale Valley.  

I'll make some calls to see if I can confirm...

 

 

 

 

Re: Monon Decals

 

Scott,

See Mont's decals here:

http://www.greatdecals.com/Switzer.htm#301n

Ordering information on the page.

The set you want is #301.  The earliest photo I have of a car with the white stripe scheme has a reweigh date of 6/52, the latest is  12/74; though I would ask Mont the question if that date is on the cusp for you.

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Jim Betz
 

Randy/all,

  We keep hearing guys talk about tungsten ... it doesn't "work" for me.

  Although tungsten does have a higher specific gravity than lead/steel ... it is
not enough more to make a difference in terms of how much weight you can
actually add to your model trains.  We don't use enough volume of weight
to make a difference.
  Tungsten is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to cut/shape/size.  Yes,
it can be cut/machined - but I haven't met anyone in the hobby with the
equipment to do so.  I've never seen "tungsten shot".
  To my way of thinking the only advantage to tungsten is that it isn't
magnetic.  Neither is lead ...

  I use lead shot and sheet lead.  I don't eat it.  I wash my hands with
simple soap and water after I handle it.  I 'encase' it in KK/white glue
so I don't worry about it after it is installed.
                                                                                             - Jim B.

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Jeff
 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 9:12 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Randy/all,

We keep hearing guys talk about tungsten ... it doesn't "work" for me.

Although tungsten does have a higher specific gravity than lead/steel ... it is
not enough more to make a difference in terms of how much weight you can
actually add to your model trains. We don't use enough volume of weight
to make a difference.
Tungsten is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to cut/shape/size. Yes,
it can be cut/machined - but I haven't met anyone in the hobby with the
equipment to do so. I've never seen "tungsten shot".
To my way of thinking the only advantage to tungsten is that it isn't
magnetic. Neither is lead ...
<snip>

Have you heard of Tungsten powder?
https://www.amazon.com/Dynacraft-Tungsten-Powder-Jar-8-Ounce/dp/B00LU0W5CA/ref=sr_1_1

Or Tungsten putty?
https://www.amazon.com/PineSpeed-Tungsten-Pinewood-Fishing-Accessory/dp/B01DTOPDPA

Granted... it ain't cheap.

--
Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.

Re: SP boxcar detail question

Paul Doggett
 

Pierre

I have Tony Thompson’s Southern Pacific Freight cars vol 4 and the ladders appear to be the same on the ends as the sides and I cannot see anything in the chapter that states anything different. Here’s two photos of the same car.
They were built in three different batch’s
83240-83739 General American
83740-84239 PSC
84240-84739 Bethlehem
I hope this helps.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

On 29 Oct 2018, at 13:34, Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

Recently I saw a photo that shows a SP B-50-20. The end ladder is clearly narrower than the side ladder.

The question is, did all the SP '37 AAR boxcars get built that way, or was it just that particular build loy?

Thanks

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com



Re: N&W B-5 box car

Bill Welch
 

Arguably the ugliest 40-foot steel boxcar ever built, I have loved it since seeing a small print of one in the Bob Charles Collection at the NMRA on a visit in 1997. The ladders are crazy too.

Bill Welch

Re: Poultry Cars

Jake Schaible
 

Kristin,
Since such was not shown in your presentation, I thought you and others might appreciate to know that drawings of a LPTCo version of this ACF car appears in the 1916 Car Car Builders Dictionary.  This one isn't the same as the design of the PPKX car in St. Louis, as differences include the later's clearstory -ish roof vent.

Cheers,

Jake

 

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Tim O'Connor
 


It isn't but I think tungsten shot is available for those really hard to weight
problems (like Detail Associates gondolas) - that's what you want to use.

In general Deluxe Materials has some really interesting and useful products. They
had a big display this past January at the Springfield show in Massachusetts.

For glue I wouldn't use CA for the shot - I'd use Elmer's "China and Glass Cement" which
is thin as water and dries rock hard in just a few minutes.

Tim O'




I wonder if that's tungsten shot. I've been trying to find a source for the smallest size shot in bulk, rather than buying shotgun shells and emptying them. This definitely looks like the stuff.

You can get it at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/DELUXE-MATERIALS-Liquid-Gravity-Weight/dp/B0047YORDQ

Randy

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: N&W B-5 box car

Brent Greer
 

These cars are quite interesting studies.  Originally they were built with roofs similar,  if not identical, to the Pennsy X37.  Later they were rebuilt with a more conventional roof as well as new ends.  Some of these cars even rode on high speed trucks. 

I've been working out a plan to do a bash of each of the 3 versions for some time now.

I also gave Steve Funaro an 8x10 builder photo  when I last saw him at Cocoa Beach.  He was interested in the project then, but I've heard nothing about it from him since then.

Brent
________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 12:40:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W B-5 box car
 
Arguably the ugliest 40-foot steel boxcar ever built, I have loved it since seeing a small print of one in the Bob Charles Collection at the NMRA on a visit in 1997. The ladders are crazy too.

Bill Welch

Re: Poultry Cars

Kristin Dummler
 

Jake,

I didn't include the drawings in the presentation simply due to time constraints. That, and even projected, they can be difficult to read the dimensions. I have the drawings from 1893, 1912-3,  and I am waiting on the collection from the Pullman Library. They have a very large collection that had not been scanned until just recently. There are also some really good drawings to be had from the original patents that can be obtained through Google Patent.

I also learned at RPM Chicagoland that drawings exist of the reefer combo as well, although I have yet to have an opportunity to review those.

I'm happy to share if anyone wants copies of the drawings that I do have currently. Feel free to email me directly.

Kristin D.


On 10/29/2018 12:02 PM, Jake Schaible wrote:

Kristin,
Since such was not shown in your presentation, I thought you and others might appreciate to know that drawings of a LPTCo version of this ACF car appears in the 1916 Car Car Builders Dictionary.  This one isn't the same as the design of the PPKX car in St. Louis, as differences include the later's clearstory -ish roof vent.

Cheers,

Jake

 


Re: Poultry Cars

Douglas Harding
 

Those drawings were published in the Jan 1898 issue of Railroad Car Journal. The article included a photo of LPTC #507, the Chanticleer, along with detailed information about construction, included the wire size, ie #11. Attached are images large enough to read the dimensions and notes.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 12:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

 

Kristin,
Since such was not shown in your presentation, I thought you and others might appreciate to know that drawings of a LPTCo version of this ACF car appears in the 1916 Car Car Builders Dictionary.  This one isn't the same as the design of the PPKX car in St. Louis, as differences include the later's clearstory -ish roof vent.

Cheers,

Jake

 

Re: Monon Decals

 

Here's a link to the decal sets that Mont offers for Monon cars. Unfortunately, there is no eMail address.

http://www.greatdecals.com/Switzer.htm

I used to model the Monon and can attest to the quality and research that he used in producing these. Set #301 covers the car that you were interested in.

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Peter Ness
 

Hi Randy,

 

If you really, really have to have Tungsten, our friends at Alumilite sell it in powder form by the ½ lb for USD20

https://www.alumilite.com/store/p/959-Tungsten-5lbs.aspx

 

I did not locate any reliable suppliers of Tungsten shot (several China or India on-line suppliers (They may be reliable but the product data was sparse enough to make me suspicious)

 

A couple of things to consider:

Be sure you are getting Tungsten;

Tungsten Carbide has a lower specific gravity than Tungsten – about halfway betwixt Lead and Tungsten.  Specific gravity of Tungsten Oxide is about half that of Lead.

Tungsten is  identified as a Conflict Mineral because of smelters located in or around the Democratic Republic of Congo that may be engaged in activities generally considered unsavory ranging from slave labor to human trafficking to arms smuggling.  At least a couple of smelters are connected to Russian citizens who are sanctioned by the US Government, hence the smelters are sanctioned as well.  Rest assured, all compliance requirements are on the purveyor of the Tungsten – none apply to the purchaser. Although if you purchase commercially and are registered with the SEC you are obligated to audit you Suppliers who are required to provide the smelters engaged in their supply chain, and if a red flag smelter is reported you are obligated to conduct due diligence with that Supplier or change Suppliers.

 

If I was going to consider the use of Tungsten powder/shot for adding weight, I would most likely fill the bulk of the void with Lead shot and use the Tungsten powder – perhaps mixed with the glue – to fill the spaces and cavities not filled by the shot. My thinking is that if the Lead shot is not quite enough to hit the desired weight target, adding some Tungsten powder may do the trick.

 

Something else just occurred to me; from scale aircraft modeling years back I bought a tube of Plumbers Epoxy.  Back then it only came in the copper-filled variety but is now available in steel and perhaps other types. I used it to add to add to the nose of front landing gear aircraft so they would not be “tail-sitters”.  It is easy to work with (cut a slice from the roll –it’s pre-mixed – knead to activate and shape, then apply. Maybe there is a possibility of application to center sills in freight car modeling? Get out your Lead shot, knead the epoxy in a long string, roll it to add the Lead shot (add Tungsten powder to taste if desired) and stuff it in the center sill? The epoxy weighs far more than glue or ACC and the shot will not escape – ever! Who knows, maybe I’ll try this on a flat car center still sometime and let you know what happens.

 

Peter Ness  

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 11:25 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

 

I wonder if that's tungsten shot. I've been trying to find a source for the smallest size shot in bulk, rather than buying shotgun shells and emptying them. This definitely looks like the stuff.

You can get it at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/DELUXE-MATERIALS-Liquid-Gravity-Weight/dp/B0047YORDQ

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:blog.newbritainstation.com

Roof Query

mike turner
 

What type roof is this?

Does anyone make an HO version of this?

The raised portions are not tapered or in a 'bowtie' and there are 2 per panel. Built circa 1947.

Thx.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Peter Ness
 

Hi Jeff,

Thais for the reminder of pine wood derby supplies! Randy, there are your small Tungsten slugs (not shot, unfortunately).

I did not know about Tungsten Putty! Good to know!

Peter Ness

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 12:23 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 9:12 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Randy/all,

We keep hearing guys talk about tungsten ... it doesn't "work" for me.

Although tungsten does have a higher specific gravity than
lead/steel ... it is not enough more to make a difference in terms of
how much weight you can actually add to your model trains. We don't
use enough volume of weight to make a difference.
Tungsten is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to
cut/shape/size. Yes, it can be cut/machined - but I haven't met
anyone in the hobby with the equipment to do so. I've never seen "tungsten shot".
To my way of thinking the only advantage to tungsten is that it
isn't magnetic. Neither is lead ...
<snip>

Have you heard of Tungsten powder?
https://www.amazon.com/Dynacraft-Tungsten-Powder-Jar-8-Ounce/dp/B00LU0W5CA/ref=sr_1_1

Or Tungsten putty?
https://www.amazon.com/PineSpeed-Tungsten-Pinewood-Fishing-Accessory/dp/B01DTOPDPA

Granted... it ain't cheap.

--
Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.

Re: Monon Decals

Tim O'Connor
 


Mont was at MSwitzer@... as of a year ago

Tim O'



Here's a link to the decal sets that Mont offers for Monon cars. Unfortunately, there is no eMail address.

http://www.greatdecals.com/Switzer.htm

I used to model the Monon and can attest to the quality and research that he used in producing these. Set #301 covers the car that you were interested in.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Allen Cain
 

A great source for lead shot and plate is RotoMetals either direct from their site or thru Amazon:

 

https://www.rotometals.com/lead-shot/

 

https://www.rotometals.com/lead-sheet/sheet-lead-1-64-1-lbs-sq-ft/

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=rotometals+lead&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=77721770358275&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_5r9nrlh0p_e

 

One order should last a life time.

 

Allen Cainhttps://www.rotometals.com/lead-sheet/sheet-lead-1-64-1-lbs-sq-ft/

 

Re: Roof Query

Benjamin Hom
 

Mike Turner asked:
"What type roof is this?
Does anyone make an HO version of this?

The raised portions are not tapered or in a 'bowtie' and there are 2 per panel. Built circa 1947."

Appears to be a New York Central Despatch roof.  First thought was one of the Milwaukee Road rib-side boxcars but the construction here is clearly riveted.

Branchline tooled this roof and included it in their undecorated kits.


Ben Hom

Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Tungsten is roughly half-again as heavy as lead … that’s significant.

In solid metalic form is is devilisly hard to work with … worse than titanium. It mostly has to be machined by grinding. But
in granulated or powder form it would be useable similar to “liquid gravity” ... hold in palce with a liquid glue.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 29, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Jeff <jeffshultz@...> wrote:

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 9:12 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Randy/all,

We keep hearing guys talk about tungsten ... it doesn't "work" for me.

Although tungsten does have a higher specific gravity than lead/steel ... it is
not enough more to make a difference in terms of how much weight you can
actually add to your model trains. We don't use enough volume of weight
to make a difference.
Tungsten is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to cut/shape/size. Yes,
it can be cut/machined - but I haven't met anyone in the hobby with the
equipment to do so. I've never seen "tungsten shot".
To my way of thinking the only advantage to tungsten is that it isn't
magnetic. Neither is lead ...
<snip>

Have you heard of Tungsten powder?
https://www.amazon.com/Dynacraft-Tungsten-Powder-Jar-8-Ounce/dp/B00LU0W5CA/ref=sr_1_1

Or Tungsten putty?
https://www.amazon.com/PineSpeed-Tungsten-Pinewood-Fishing-Accessory/dp/B01DTOPDPA

Granted... it ain't cheap.

--
Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.