Date   

Re: Roof Query

Dennis Storzek
 

The big problem with the MILW roofs is the rib side cars don't have Z bar eaves, so the roof is the full width of the body, wider than on a typical car.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Monon Decals

Scott
 

Thanks everybody I will get some ordered up.

Scott McDonald


Re: Roof Query

Richard Townsend
 

As Ben Hom mentioned, Branchline made a Despatch roof in its undecorated boxcar kits that is similar to, if not indistinguishable from, the Murphy welded roof. Others have suggested a roof from a Milwaukee ribside box car that also is quite similar if not identical.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: mike turner <yardcoolie1968@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Oct 29, 2018 9:16 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Roof Query

Just confirmed Murphy Welded Roof on SOU drawing SF-5210.

Thx for the replies.

Now to try and find an HO roof of this flavor.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

On 10/29/2018 9:43 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Murphy Welded Roof, as shown on pp. 411-412 of the 1940 CBC. The
> panels were welded together, but the roof as a whole was riveted to
> the carbody. Milwaukee did use it on their ribside boxes.
>
> David Thompson
>




Re: Poultry Cars

O Fenton Wells
 

Just as a side note my wife gave me some sizing material that is used inside garments to stiffen things like lapels and shoulders.  I used it with good success with vent car models.  Also some floral ribbon has great HO scale promise.
Fenton

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 12:53 AM Jake Schaible <jjschaible@...> wrote:

The second of Doug's images shows, without at doubt, the top screen panel on the side is significantly narrower than the standard "6 diamond" tall panel or the bottom "7 diamond" panel.  Seems to be 3.5 diamonds tall?

"Brookport" is the first suggestion of a name I've heard for that car.  There is clearly lettering above the door, but it was far to faded and light too poor for me to read.  



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Roof Query

mike turner
 

Just confirmed Murphy Welded Roof on SOU drawing SF-5210.

Thx for the replies.

Now to try and find an HO roof of this flavor.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

On 10/29/2018 9:43 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
Murphy Welded Roof, as shown on pp. 411-412 of the 1940 CBC. The panels were welded together, but the roof as a whole was riveted to the carbody. Milwaukee did use it on their ribside boxes.

David Thompson


Re: Poultry Cars

James SANDIFER
 

I have photos of poultry cars on the Santa Fe in Dodge City, KS; Ft. Madison, IA, and Winslow, AZ. I have seen photos of poultry cars in CA, but the photos did not indicate the railroads  on which they traveled.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kristin Dummler
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 9:28 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

 

Stuart,

I haven't seen one specifically, but that doesn't mean they weren't there. A couple of photos show cars in CA (I have one from 1945 in Sacramento, and another in Stockton.) Pacific Wholesale Poultry in Petaluma had two of their own private cars. There was a Dairy, Swine and Poultry Special that ran in 1922 on the Atchison, Topeka, And Santa Fe RR. (Attachment)  It's a good likelihood there were some that made their way south.

While not Santa Fe, others might find interest in the book the Southern Pacific released called "Success with Poultry in California". The digital version can be found here:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b2751859;view=1up;seq=1

 

Kristin D.

 

 

On 10/29/2018 8:55 AM, Stuart Forsyth via Groups.Io wrote:

Shifting from mesh to operations, has anyone seen photos of poultry cars running on the Santa Fe in Southern California?

 

Stuart A. Forsyth



On Oct 29, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

 

Here is an interior view of the “Brookport”. I’ll contact the person who sent me the photos and see if I can learn reason for the “Brookport” name.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kristin Dummler
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 6:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

 

Doug,

I believe you are correct. The FC Brown car was a very early design that allowed crates of birds to be stacked inside for transport. Note there is no caretaker stateroom. The crates would have been stacked floor to ceiling and, with no one to feed or water the birds, most would have lost weight, and many would have likely perished on the journey.

Excellent pictures of the car in St. Louis. I have not been able to find the car's specific name. Somewhere, I am sure there are records of what it was originally called, but once P.T.C. took over and took over the remaining cars from North American, a lot of them were just left with their original designations, such as the Palace name on the side sill. Somewhere there has to be a listing of the names of the cars. Hopefully it turns up one of these days.

Kristin D.

 

On 10/28/2018 9:46 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Attached are two photos of the car at the National Transportation Museum in St Louis, which I have listed as the Brookport. I don’t know if that name is correct, that is how the photos were named when they came to me. This car has eight layers of cages, the top one does a smaller “screen” on the exterior, no doubt because the fascia covered the upper part of the top cage.

 

Also attached is a very different poultry car, FC Brown #104. Which appears to be a full cage design, built by AFC in 1907. I can’t quite make out the lot #, looks like it could be 9637.

I suspect this car was designed to hold standard chicken crates. As Kristen pointed out in her presentation, farmers had a problem getting their chicken crates back, so cars of this design fell out of favor.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Attachments:

 

 

<Brookport 1770.JPG>

 

 


Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Carl Gustafson
 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 10:35:54PM +0000, Andy Carlson wrote:
I would guess the mention of Titanium was a mistake, the intended metal perhaps Platinum, which is as heavy (Or heavier) than Tungsten.  Platinum, though, is incredably expensive, though its weigh rivals Tungsten and depleted uranium
So does gold, for that matter. Use that or platinum and you can have "investment grade" cars.

Carl Gustafson


Roof Query

David
 

Murphy Welded Roof, as shown on pp. 411-412 of the 1940 CBC. The panels were welded together, but the roof as a whole was riveted to the carbody. Milwaukee did use it on their ribside boxes.

David Thompson


Re: Roof Query

mike turner
 

Southern Railway  caboose X3115 built Jan 23, 1947, from SOU 38' ventilated boxcar 122483 at Hayne Shops and currently located at the Hub City Museum at Magnolia Station in Spartanburg, SC.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

On 10/29/2018 6:42 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
Isn't this a Milwaukee Road caboose?

Ron Merrick


Re: Monon Decals

mopacfirst
 

I've used the journal repack data set for years, still not through all of it.

Ron Merrick


Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Peter Ness
 

Hi Jim,

 

All good points for closed cars and hoppers.  Most flat cars and some gondolas pose interesting challenges where “more is more” instead of “less is more” J

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 5:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

 

Dan/all,
  If you have enough space for 1 oz of tungsten or titanium you will almost always
have enough room for 1 oz of lead ... think about it.  How much weight do we -add-
to a freight car?  Two to 3 oz. TOPS.  Usually 1 to 1.5 ounces.
  I'm saying there is always room for enough lead.  There's probably enough
room for enough copper/brass!  I know some guys who use pennies for car
weights in their box cars - they say it is cheaper per oz than anything else.  ;-) 
  And it doesn't really matter what scale you are in - although adding weight
is probably physically harder in N-scale simply due to smaller spaces (but you
are adding less weight).
                                                                                           - Jim B. 


Re: Tungsten small weights source

Peter Ness
 

HI Andy,

 

I had “forgotten” building a pine wood derby racer with my grandson 3-4 years ago…didn’t forget building the racer, but didn’t recall the Tungsten weights.  Truth be told, we used A-Line Lead weights since I had those on hand.  IIRC I did use Plumbers epoxy over the weights.  Thank goodness I could with the car with the weights on top, then cut a slice of epoxy to bring the wright to maximum.

 

The link has changed, but the website menu is still on top, so not difficult to find the products you reference.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 5:26 PM
To: STMFC <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tungsten small weights source

 

I sent this email to the group the last time weights were in a ongoing discussion. This firm has various sizes (discs, pellets, cubes, semi-arch discs plus square and round rods, all 100% tungsten. I have purchased many sizes of weights, plus fine tungsten shots. I felt their pricing was not excessive, and I bought during one of their twice yearly sales.

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA 93023



BTW, as was mentioned earlier, Tungsten Carbide has a lower specific mass less than pure Tungsten, though it is still much denser than lead. It shatters quite easily, and I had once received a lot of T.C. from an engineering shop for free. I mashed the life out of it with a 10-pound sledge hammer. That makes pieces which will fit in most any cavity or area in any of our freight cars. Need yet a smaller piece? Back to the wrecking anvil!

 


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Andy Carlson <midcentury@...>
To: RealSTMFC <realstmfc@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 1:50 AM
Subject: Tungsten small weights special prices Inventory Clearance Event - May 2018

 

Hello-

We have talked before about tungsten weights, how at a specific weight 16 times greater than water, and  almost double (1.77) the weight of lead and 4 times zinc. I have purchased from this company, Maximum Velocity, a few times, and take advantage of their pre-Summer sales. Shipping in a small flat-rate box is very affordable for such heavy packages! They have pellets, sheets and other various pieces such as round, rods, triangular, rectangular and other shapes which I find convenient. Their link is below.

-Andy Carlson    Ojai, CA

****************************





MAXIMUM VELOCITY

 

.............Specifically, we are offering clearance pricing on:

 

- Tungsten

 

To browse all of our discounted product offers, please visit:

 

== A Special Discount For You ==

In addition to these reduced prices, we are offering a 10% discount on

all orders. To take advantage of this offer, please enter coupon code

 

    SPRING18SALE

 

in the "Coupon Code" box on the shopping cart page. Wait to enter the

code until all items are in the cart, and make sure to enter it

exactly as shown above.

 

This offer is good through May 21, 2018

 

 

 


Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Peter Ness
 

Jake wrote:

W is often the cheapest you can get per meter, as it pulls very fine without breaking.  (For $170, you can get 0.0005" electropolished wire in 500m spools) 

 

Which is true, but try putting a 90° bend in it and it will become apparent it is very brittle unless doped with other elements in alloy form. Tungsten wire splits during attempts to form it. Doped with rare-earth oxides such as Lanthanum oxide allow easier forming such as to make coils for various lighting products.

 

Again, always know what you want if for and what it’s made of.

 

On the Hevi-Shot page the description reads; “Hevi-Shot is a non-toxic shot comprised of tungsten alloy, nickel, and iron that is similar in density to lead”. So it may be only USD80, but what does it cost for 3 lbs. of Lead?

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 5:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

 

There is a commercially available Tungsten alloy shot, formed to have similar density as lead... without the lead.... for lead free states.

Hevi-Shot Tungsten Alloy Shot 3 lb
$80 / 3lbs.

Also http://www.globaltungstens.com/tungsten-alloy/tungsten-shot.php

Pure W isn't all that hard.  Even with the harder alloys, there are specialist shops that work with it 90WNiFe alloy and can mill and cut that fine. 

In fact, for extremely small dia wire, W is often the cheapest you can get per meter, as it pulls very fine without breaking.  (For $170, you can get 0.0005" electropolished wire in 500m spools)  

https://midwesttungsten.com/tungsten-wire-99-95-pure-0-003-diameters-500-meter-spool/

 


Re: Roof Query

mopacfirst
 

Isn't this a Milwaukee Road caboose?

Ron Merrick


Reading USRA Mill Gondola

Bill Welch
 

One of my interests in kit building is representing car designs that were historically important and/or numerous in their production numbers. Something I try to do when building is have photos to guide my building, the more the better. At the Collinsville RPM earlier this year I stumbled upon a stack of photos for sale at one of venders that was mostly selling kits. Experience has told these informal stacks of photos often contain a few treasures so I sat down and found many, including three photos of the Reading’s GML mill gondolas, clones of the USRA’s mill gons. (The Reading owned 500 original USRA built cars and 4,000 clones.) Two of the photos were the opposite sides and ends of RDG #24234—pairs of photos like this are pretty rare and are real treasures for a modeler I think.

Years ago I had purchased two Westy kits of these cars, one B&O (the largest owner of the design and its clones) and one undec intended to become a L&N model once I sorted out how to make the Dreadnaught end I would/will need. With these new photos I decided the L&N model would have to wait. The attached photos represent my progress thus far beginning with adding the sixteen crossties and the train line to the underframe. I am hoping I can get more information on the AB Brake system layout for these cars before I go much further. Earlier this month at the Lisle RPM friend Steve Hile gave me a pair of unassembled Eastern Car Works “Taylor” trucks to use on 24234. (Taylor trucks were unique to the Reading and I have to wonder if a Reading employee might hold their patent.)

While looking for the brake info I am detailing the rest of the model. These cars typically used drop grabs on the side but one of the photos showed that on the right side of 24234 the drop grab on the right end of the right side had been replaced by a straight grab so I modeled that change. The kit comes with Resin Sill Steps that to my mind is a waste of resin as although resin is flexible, it is not so flexible as to survive very long. So I used a lighter to heat four A-Line sill steps and re-bent them so that they are wide enough to represent the sill steps. While bending I made sure to square up the corners of the steps. I used .010 x .030 strip styrene and harvested rivets to model their attachment flanges and bolts.

Among the detail castings are those for the roping or towing staples. I also ignored these, as I prefer stand off details. I used my newish small Tamiya bending pliers to bend the .010-wire and used Tichy .020 rivets for the attachment bolt heads. I thought the Retainer Valve pipe bracket on the prototype looked interesting and used a short section of 0.005 styrene strip formed over a piece of wire and another harvested rivet to make this. I have to admit, I am pretty much In-Love with the way this bracket turned out.

If I have calculated in my head correctly this is only USRA type that I have not yet modeled.

Bill Welch


Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Andy Carlson
 

I would guess the mention of Titanium was a mistake, the intended metal perhaps Platinum, which is as heavy (Or heavier) than Tungsten.  Platinum, though, is incredably expensive, though its weigh rivals Tungsten and depleted Uranium. Go with Tungsten, or at least Tungsten Carbide. Titanium is a very light weight metal, which though useful for Nascar race engine valves, would be much lighter than steel for our need of a weight.

I bought a Russia surplus Titanium crow bar once. It was about half the weight of a steel rebar, and I made the joke that a titanium Russian crowbar was the USSR emergency release mechanism for a Russian fighter jet.
-Andy



From: Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

While tungsten is more expensive than lead, and may be harder to work with, it is definitely heavier for any given volume … nearly twice as heavy. I thus disagree with you that "If you have enough space for 1 oz of tungsten or titanium you will almost always have enough room for 1 oz of lead”. Just NOT true. You need only a bit more than half the volume of available space if you use tungsten. That’s often critical when trying to weight a flatcar or other "problem” rolling stock.

And, as for titanium … it’s relatively light and not at all suited as a weight. I mentioned it only as another difficult-to-machine metal. Both titanium and tungsten CAN be machined, but not with the tools usually available in home shops. For most, to use tungsten you need to buy it in a useable form.

Dan Mitchell
========== 

On Oct 29, 2018, at 5:42 PM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Dan/all,
  If you have enough space for 1 oz of tungsten or titanium you will almost always
have enough room for 1 oz of lead ... think about it.  How much weight do we -add-
to a freight car?  Two to 3 oz. TOPS.  Usually 1 to 1.5 ounces.
  I'm saying there is always room for enough lead.  There's probably enough
room for enough copper/brass!  I know some guys who use pennies for car
weights in their box cars - they say it is cheaper per oz than anything else.  ;-) 
  And it doesn't really matter what scale you are in - although adding weight
is probably physically harder in N-scale simply due to smaller spaces (but you
are adding less weight).
                                                                                           - Jim B. 




Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

While tungsten is more expensive than lead, and may be harder to work with, it is definitely heavier for any given volume … nearly twice as heavy. I thus disagree with you that "If you have enough space for 1 oz of tungsten or titanium you will almost always have enough room for 1 oz of lead”. Just NOT true. You need only a bit more than half the volume of available space if you use tungsten. That’s often critical when trying to weight a flatcar or other "problem” rolling stock.

And, as for titanium … it’s relatively light and not at all suited as a weight. I mentioned it only as another difficult-to-machine metal. Both titanium and tungsten CAN be machined, but not with the tools usually available in home shops. For most, to use tungsten you need to buy it in a useable form.

Dan Mitchell
========== 

On Oct 29, 2018, at 5:42 PM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Dan/all,
  If you have enough space for 1 oz of tungsten or titanium you will almost always
have enough room for 1 oz of lead ... think about it.  How much weight do we -add-
to a freight car?  Two to 3 oz. TOPS.  Usually 1 to 1.5 ounces.
  I'm saying there is always room for enough lead.  There's probably enough
room for enough copper/brass!  I know some guys who use pennies for car
weights in their box cars - they say it is cheaper per oz than anything else.  ;-) 
  And it doesn't really matter what scale you are in - although adding weight
is probably physically harder in N-scale simply due to smaller spaces (but you
are adding less weight).
                                                                                           - Jim B. 


Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Jim Betz
 

Dan/all,
  If you have enough space for 1 oz of tungsten or titanium you will almost always
have enough room for 1 oz of lead ... think about it.  How much weight do we -add-
to a freight car?  Two to 3 oz. TOPS.  Usually 1 to 1.5 ounces.
  I'm saying there is always room for enough lead.  There's probably enough
room for enough copper/brass!  I know some guys who use pennies for car
weights in their box cars - they say it is cheaper per oz than anything else.  ;-) 
  And it doesn't really matter what scale you are in - although adding weight
is probably physically harder in N-scale simply due to smaller spaces (but you
are adding less weight).
                                                                                           - Jim B. 


Re: Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Jake Schaible
 

There is a commercially available Tungsten alloy shot, formed to have similar density as lead... without the lead.... for lead free states.

Hevi-Shot Tungsten Alloy Shot 3 lb
$80 / 3lbs.

Also http://www.globaltungstens.com/tungsten-alloy/tungsten-shot.php

Pure W isn't all that hard.  Even with the harder alloys, there are specialist shops that work with it 90WNiFe alloy and can mill and cut that fine. 

In fact, for extremely small dia wire, W is often the cheapest you can get per meter, as it pulls very fine without breaking.  (For $170, you can get 0.0005" electropolished wire in 500m spools)  

https://midwesttungsten.com/tungsten-wire-99-95-pure-0-003-diameters-500-meter-spool/

 


Tungsten small weights source

Andy Carlson
 

I sent this email to the group the last time weights were in a ongoing discussion. This firm has various sizes (discs, pellets, cubes, semi-arch discs plus square and round rods, all 100% tungsten. I have purchased many sizes of weights, plus fine tungsten shots. I felt their pricing was not excessive, and I bought during one of their twice yearly sales.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA 93023

BTW, as was mentioned earlier, Tungsten Carbide has a lower specific mass less than pure Tungsten, though it is still much denser than lead. It shatters quite easily, and I had once received a lot of T.C. from an engineering shop for free. I mashed the life out of it with a 10-pound sledge hammer. That makes pieces which will fit in most any cavity or area in any of our freight cars. Need yet a smaller piece? Back to the wrecking anvil!



----- Forwarded Message -----

From: Andy Carlson <midcentury@...>
To: RealSTMFC <realstmfc@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 1:50 AM
Subject: Tungsten small weights special prices Inventory Clearance Event - May 2018

Hello-
We have talked before about tungsten weights, how at a specific weight 16 times greater than water, and  almost double (1.77) the weight of lead and 4 times zinc. I have purchased from this company, Maximum Velocity, a few times, and take advantage of their pre-Summer sales. Shipping in a small flat-rate box is very affordable for such heavy packages! They have pellets, sheets and other various pieces such as round, rods, triangular, rectangular and other shapes which I find convenient. Their link is below.
-Andy Carlson    Ojai, CA
****************************


MAXIMUM VELOCITY


.............Specifically, we are offering clearance pricing on:

- Tungsten

To browse all of our discounted product offers, please visit:

== A Special Discount For You ==
In addition to these reduced prices, we are offering a 10% discount on
all orders. To take advantage of this offer, please enter coupon code

    SPRING18SALE

in the "Coupon Code" box on the shopping cart page. Wait to enter the
code until all items are in the cart, and make sure to enter it
exactly as shown above.

This offer is good through May 21, 2018