Dan

The "Speedy" reefer Ambroid kit definitely need some work. The build has some major flaws, and while it's not a bad build,  it's definitely not prototype. If you give it a go, definitely use the photo.

Very nice Ambroid kit rescue! I have a couple I have started, and a few I am working on rescuing. I didn't include them in my RPM presentation, but they were on display. I hope to get them completed soon. I might take a couple of them and work on an interior. I am also looking at more drawings. There were so many versions of these cars, it's really hard to pick just one for prototype.

Did you add weight to your car? I was thinking about that this morning on my drive to work. How to add weight to the cars, WITHOUT adding chickens. LOL! My "to-do" list does not include adding 5000 hand painted chickens to my roster.

Kristin D.

Kristen:

 

I think 2800 is “well over 2000”.   :-)

 

I have one Ambroid car assembled and in use on my model railroad. I bought it partly assembled, and completed it as best I could on the info available at the time. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the mesh sides were already installed and I didn’t think it wise at the time to cut it open and install the interior decks. Now I wish I had. Here’s the car on an unfinished part of my layout …

 

 

Obviously I now know some of the problems with this model, but it’s It’s still an attention-getter. Perhaps someday I’ll rebuild it (see below). 

 

And, after searching for several years, I finally found an unbuilt kit for the half poultry-half refrigerator car version. For whatever reason these are far harder to find than the all-poultry-car version. I’ve been looking forward to building it, but now I think I’ll wait a while since you seem to have stirred up a lot of interest in the subject. Perhaps better construction options will result in the not distant future.

 

There’s also a small electronic sound unit that makes chicken noises. It could be hidden in the car’s center section. Then one could attempt to deal with the smell ...

 

I very much enjoyed your presentation at the Chicagoland RPM meet. It’s been very effective at getting many people interested in the subject. A good poultry car would be an excellent subject for a mixed resin and photo-etch kit.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Kristin Dummler <kbdummler@...> wrote:

 

Dan,

2800+ cars were in operation at their most popular.

The Ambroid kits are still out there. I have several that I have purchased to build in the last year. They are hard to come by, but around. The idea all along has been to develop a kit for building these cars. Whether laser cut wood, mixed medium, 3D printed, resin, etc.. etc.. they will not be a simple model. Especially not if truly prototypical.

Kristin D.

 

On 10/30/2018 4:05 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:

A Photo-Etched side might well prove the best of the several options.

 

The mesh will probably need to be a bit coarser than scale to avoid optical problems and still achieve adequate transparency.

 

The best thing about this approach is etching the entire side in one piece, slots and all. 3D etching, or a multi-layer etch could also represent the ends of the deck boards protruding through the slots. That would greatly simplify building such a model. 

 

One question is how many of the old Ambroid cars are still around in salvageable form? A better one might be … if the PE sides become available, would one of the resin builders market a new car kit that uses them? I think there may indeed be a market for such. It seems well over 2000 of these cars were in service at one time, pretty much all over the country. They were NOT all that rare.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

 

A known and skilled "photo-etcher" was present for Kristin's second presentation and he signed on to consult and help her.

Bill Welch

 

 

 

Dan

The "Speedy" reefer Ambroid kit definitely need some work. The build has some major flaws, and while it's not a bad build,  it's definitely not prototype. If you give it a go, definitely use the photo.

Very nice Ambroid kit rescue! I have a couple I have started, and a few I am working on rescuing. I didn't include them in my RPM presentation, but they were on display. I hope to get them completed soon. I might take a couple of them and work on an interior. I am also looking at more drawings. There were so many versions of these cars, it's really hard to pick just one for prototype.

Did you add weight to your car? I was thinking about that this morning on my drive to work. How to add weight to the cars, WITHOUT adding chickens. LOL! My "to-do" list does not include adding 5000 hand painted chickens to my roster.

Kristin D.

Kristen:

 

I think 2800 is “well over 2000”.   :-)

 

I have one Ambroid car assembled and in use on my model railroad. I bought it partly assembled, and completed it as best I could on the info available at the time. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the mesh sides were already installed and I didn’t think it wise at the time to cut it open and install the interior decks. Now I wish I had. Here’s the car on an unfinished part of my layout …

 

 

Obviously I now know some of the problems with this model, but it’s It’s still an attention-getter. Perhaps someday I’ll rebuild it (see below). 

 

And, after searching for several years, I finally found an unbuilt kit for the half poultry-half refrigerator car version. For whatever reason these are far harder to find than the all-poultry-car version. I’ve been looking forward to building it, but now I think I’ll wait a while since you seem to have stirred up a lot of interest in the subject. Perhaps better construction options will result in the not distant future.

 

There’s also a small electronic sound unit that makes chicken noises. It could be hidden in the car’s center section. Then one could attempt to deal with the smell ...

 

I very much enjoyed your presentation at the Chicagoland RPM meet. It’s been very effective at getting many people interested in the subject. A good poultry car would be an excellent subject for a mixed resin and photo-etch kit.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Kristin Dummler <kbdummler@...> wrote:

 

Dan,

2800+ cars were in operation at their most popular.

The Ambroid kits are still out there. I have several that I have purchased to build in the last year. They are hard to come by, but around. The idea all along has been to develop a kit for building these cars. Whether laser cut wood, mixed medium, 3D printed, resin, etc.. etc.. they will not be a simple model. Especially not if truly prototypical.

Kristin D.

 

On 10/30/2018 4:05 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:

A Photo-Etched side might well prove the best of the several options.

 

The mesh will probably need to be a bit coarser than scale to avoid optical problems and still achieve adequate transparency.

 

The best thing about this approach is etching the entire side in one piece, slots and all. 3D etching, or a multi-layer etch could also represent the ends of the deck boards protruding through the slots. That would greatly simplify building such a model. 

 

One question is how many of the old Ambroid cars are still around in salvageable form? A better one might be … if the PE sides become available, would one of the resin builders market a new car kit that uses them? I think there may indeed be a market for such. It seems well over 2000 of these cars were in service at one time, pretty much all over the country. They were NOT all that rare.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

 

A known and skilled "photo-etcher" was present for Kristin's second presentation and he signed on to consult and help her.

Bill Welch

 

 

 

On Oct 31, 2018, at 10:33 AM, Kristin Dummler <kbdummler@...> wrote:

Chicken sounds would be entertaining. Chicken smell... NOT so much. LOL!

Kristin D.

On 10/31/2018 9:18 AM, Jake Schaible wrote:

"There’s also a small electronic sound unit that makes chicken noises."

To follow up on Dan's comment, here is the chicken sound units from one vendor...

https://www.ngineering.com/sound_library.htm

Kristen:

I think 2800 is “well over 2000”.   :-)

I have one Ambroid car assembled and in use on my model railroad. I bought it partly assembled, and completed it as best I could on the info available at the time. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the mesh sides were already installed and I didn’t think it wise at the time to cut it open and install the interior decks. Now I wish I had. Here’s the car on an unfinished part of my layout …

Obviously I now know some of the problems with this model, but it’s It’s still an attention-getter. Perhaps someday I’ll rebuild it (see below). 

And, after searching for several years, I finally found an unbuilt kit for the half poultry-half refrigerator car version. For whatever reason these are far harder to find than the all-poultry-car version. I’ve been looking forward to building it, but now I think I’ll wait a while since you seem to have stirred up a lot of interest in the subject. Perhaps better construction options will result in the not distant future.

There’s also a small electronic sound unit that makes chicken noises. It could be hidden in the car’s center section. Then one could attempt to deal with the smell ...

I very much enjoyed your presentation at the Chicagoland RPM meet. It’s been very effective at getting many people interested in the subject. A good poultry car would be an excellent subject for a mixed resin and photo-etch kit.

Thanks,

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Kristin Dummler <kbdummler@...> wrote:

Dan,

2800+ cars were in operation at their most popular.

The Ambroid kits are still out there. I have several that I have purchased to build in the last year. They are hard to come by, but around. The idea all along has been to develop a kit for building these cars. Whether laser cut wood, mixed medium, 3D printed, resin, etc.. etc.. they will not be a simple model. Especially not if truly prototypical.

Kristin D.

On 10/30/2018 4:05 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:

A Photo-Etched side might well prove the best of the several options.

The mesh will probably need to be a bit coarser than scale to avoid optical problems and still achieve adequate transparency.

The best thing about this approach is etching the entire side in one piece, slots and all. 3D etching, or a multi-layer etch could also represent the ends of the deck boards protruding through the slots. That would greatly simplify building such a model. 

One question is how many of the old Ambroid cars are still around in salvageable form? A better one might be … if the PE sides become available, would one of the resin builders market a new car kit that uses them? I think there may indeed be a market for such. It seems well over 2000 of these cars were in service at one time, pretty much all over the country. They were NOT all that rare.

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

A known and skilled "photo-etcher" was present for Kristin's second presentation and he signed on to consult and help her.

Bill Welch

"There’s also a small electronic sound unit that makes chicken noises."

To follow up on Dan's comment, here is the chicken sound units from one vendor...

https://www.ngineering.com/sound_library.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: Daniel A. Mitchell

To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Cc: Mitchell Daniel A.

Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:55 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars

Kristen:

I think 2800 is “well over 2000”.   :-)

I have one Ambroid car assembled and in use on my model railroad. I bought it partly assembled, and completed it as best I could on the info available at the time. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the mesh sides were already installed and I didn’t think it wise at the time to cut it open and install the interior decks. Now I wish I had. Here’s the car on an unfinished part of my layout …

Obviously I now know some of the problems with this model, but it’s It’s still an attention-getter. Perhaps someday I’ll rebuild it (see below). 

And, after searching for several years, I finally found an unbuilt kit for the half poultry-half refrigerator car version. For whatever reason these are far harder to find than the all-poultry-car version. I’ve been looking forward to building it, but now I think I’ll wait a while since you seem to have stirred up a lot of interest in the subject. Perhaps better construction options will result in the not distant future.

There’s also a small electronic sound unit that makes chicken noises. It could be hidden in the car’s center section. Then one could attempt to deal with the smell ...

I very much enjoyed your presentation at the Chicagoland RPM meet. It’s been very effective at getting many people interested in the subject. A good poultry car would be an excellent subject for a mixed resin and photo-etch kit.

Thanks,

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Kristin Dummler <kbdummler@...> wrote:

Dan,

2800+ cars were in operation at their most popular.

The Ambroid kits are still out there. I have several that I have purchased to build in the last year. They are hard to come by, but around. The idea all along has been to develop a kit for building these cars. Whether laser cut wood, mixed medium, 3D printed, resin, etc.. etc.. they will not be a simple model. Especially not if truly prototypical.

Kristin D.

On 10/30/2018 4:05 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:

A Photo-Etched side might well prove the best of the several options.

The mesh will probably need to be a bit coarser than scale to avoid optical problems and still achieve adequate transparency.

The best thing about this approach is etching the entire side in one piece, slots and all. 3D etching, or a multi-layer etch could also represent the ends of the deck boards protruding through the slots. That would greatly simplify building such a model. 

One question is how many of the old Ambroid cars are still around in salvageable form? A better one might be … if the PE sides become available, would one of the resin builders market a new car kit that uses them? I think there may indeed be a market for such. It seems well over 2000 of these cars were in service at one time, pretty much all over the country. They were NOT all that rare.

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

A known and skilled "photo-etcher" was present for Kristin's second presentation and he signed on to consult and help her.

Bill Welch

A Photo-Etched side might well prove the best of the several options.

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Parker via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 9:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Weighing Freight Car Models with Liquid Gravity

Tim:

My comments on this have always included the caveat that spheres the have to small enough to achieve something at least close to idealized spherical packing.

If you had a center-sill space with a 1 x 1 cm cross-section, and you carefully filled it with 1-cm diameter spheres, you would indeed have about 52% sphere and 48% void space (just the ratio of the volume of a sphere and a cube of the same size).  Obviously, if the spheres are say 0.75 cm in dia, then you can't pack them in there efficiently, and you'll get less weight.

But if the spheres were say 1 mm, or even 2, then you are going to get something at least close to idealized packing (74-26).  Going to 0.1 mm spheres is only going gain you something on the order of one or a few percent (maybe), hardly worth worrying about. 

Concerning Tony's comment, I agree but only in theory.  If you start mixing smaller spheres in with bigger ones, then the little ones can get in the way of the dense packing of the big ones.  The gain in density will likely be rather minimal in most cases, and it may even reduce the density.  This is a very common observation in soil science -- things like dune sands usually have higher (dry) densities than do other soils that have a range of particle sizes.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

On Oct 30, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Kristin Dummler <kbdummler@...> wrote:

Dan,

2800+ cars were in operation at their most popular.

The Ambroid kits are still out there. I have several that I have purchased to build in the last year. They are hard to come by, but around. The idea all along has been to develop a kit for building these cars. Whether laser cut wood, mixed medium, 3D printed, resin, etc.. etc.. they will not be a simple model. Especially not if truly prototypical.

Kristin D.

On 10/30/2018 4:05 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:

A Photo-Etched side might well prove the best of the several options.

The mesh will probably need to be a bit coarser than scale to avoid optical problems and still achieve adequate transparency.

The best thing about this approach is etching the entire side in one piece, slots and all. 3D etching, or a multi-layer etch could also represent the ends of the deck boards protruding through the slots. That would greatly simplify building such a model. 

One question is how many of the old Ambroid cars are still around in salvageable form? A better one might be … if the PE sides become available, would one of the resin builders market a new car kit that uses them? I think there may indeed be a market for such. It seems well over 2000 of these cars were in service at one time, pretty much all over the country. They were NOT all that rare.

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

A known and skilled "photo-etcher" was present for Kristin's second presentation and he signed on to consult and help her.

Bill Welch

A Photo-Etched side might well prove the best of the several options.

The mesh will probably need to be a bit coarser than scale to avoid optical problems and still achieve adequate transparency.

The best thing about this approach is etching the entire side in one piece, slots and all. 3D etching, or a multi-layer etch could also represent the ends of the deck boards protruding through the slots. That would greatly simplify building such a model. 

One question is how many of the old Ambroid cars are still around in salvageable form? A better one might be … if the PE sides become available, would one of the resin builders market a new car kit that uses them? I think there may indeed be a market for such. It seems well over 2000 of these cars were in service at one time, pretty much all over the country. They were NOT all that rare.

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Oct 30, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

A known and skilled "photo-etcher" was present for Kristin's second presentation and he signed on to consult and help her.

Bill Welch