Date   
Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

John Barry
 

Bill,

Unless you have a rich stash of photos of period photos from your branch or the classification yard that served it, Bob's comment about "plausible" and random applies as the majority of the marks would have been from someplace else and random hieroglyphics are in order.  OTH, if you are so fortunate to have that stash, or the recollections of a yard crew that built the train for your branch, you may be able to decipher that ONE mark that directed the car to your line, be it the schedule number (not necessarily the ETT train #), an alpha code, or distinct pattern.  

Even if you can't discern that pattern, it is reasonable to make a guess that if the 53 train serves your branch and the 52 train serves the branch in the other TT direction that you could plausibly mark all of the cars you operate on your branch with a fresh 53 in a consistent spot along with an assortment of older, more faded random marks.


 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:42 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Hello Group,

I have begun to study chalk marks. Well ... actually just look more closely at them. The truth is that with few exceptions I have no idea what the chalk marks are trying to convey. 

Some might appear to be train numbers applied by a yard clerk to aid classifying a car to a specific train. Or perhaps they are track numbers? Or perhaps the marks denote something entirely else. Those that say to "hold" a car are understandable as are marks that explain or denote a bad order car. But the majority of marks are more or less a foreign language to me. 

Also, did the use of chalk marks change over time? That is, would the use or need for chalk marks change from the 1920s to the depression era, to the WWII era, to the post WWII era, etc?

With my past modeling, I have added chalk marks to my weathered models based simply on "looks". Now that I am modeling a specific stretch portion of a specific branch line, I am beginning to wonder about this random approach.

Any knowledge you can provide to this old dog modeler would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Bill Keene
 

Thank you Bob for your comments. I have also been through Tony’s blogs. Had them bookmarked for some time. 

My layout is basically the tail end of a branch line. It is a down and back operation with one mixed train daily except Sunday. My concern is basically one of would there be a common chalk mark on all or most cars that are destined for towns on this 52-mile long branch? ATSF Train #79 originated at Ottawa, Kansas, then ran as an extra the four miles southward to BN JCT, then out the Burlington District — aka the Gridley Branch — to Gridley where it turned as train #80 for the run back to Ottawa. The traffic is mostly load inbound and empties outbound. 

It is this little detail of the possibility of a specific chalk mark that would denote operations onto the Gridley Branch when the train was assembled in Ottawa that is my concern. These cars would have arrived in Ottawa from three major points: Kansas City (Argentine Yard), Emporia, and Chanute. As previously mentioned, I have been applying chalk marks for “looks” but wonder if there might be a specific mark such as a “79” perhaps circled that should be included in the final modeling. 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Nov 13, 2018, at 9:37 AM, Robert Heninger <gn2059@...> wrote:

Bill,

Unfortunately, chalk markings were not codified and standardized, and were specific only to that train crew, or yard crews. Other than the obvious ones that are written in plain English, the specific meanings have been lost to time. Your speculations as to track numbers, door numbers, etc. are all valid, but in general, you can't look at a photo of a specific car and make anything more that a SWAG about the specific meanings of the individual marks. You'd need to talk to the person who wrote them, to decipher the "code" for that specific road/locale/crew.

Fortunately, we don't have to know what they mean for our modeling purposes, they just have to be plausible.

Tony Thompson has written several posts about chalk marks on his blog, and I recommend you read them as they are well-written and informative.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Re: SOO 136000

steve_wintner
 

Gents, Dennis especially,

I'm interested in modelling this roof. As far as I understand, Stan Rydarowicz's line is no longer available. So I'm thinking of scratchbuilding. 

I'll look Dennis's photos over, but did anyone ever find more regarding the lower end panel (Bob's comment)? Any other significandt differences between the drawing and as-built version that I should be watching for? 

Thanks
Steve

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Robert Heninger
 

Bill,

Here's a link to one of Tony's posts, that contains a couple additional embedded links with further information.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/search?q=chalk+mark

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Robert Heninger
 

Bill,

Unfortunately, chalk markings were not codified and standardized, and were specific only to that train crew, or yard crews. Other than the obvious ones that are written in plain English, the specific meanings have been lost to time. Your speculations as to track numbers, door numbers, etc. are all valid, but in general, you can't look at a photo of a specific car and make anything more that a SWAG about the specific meanings of the individual marks. You'd need to talk to the person who wrote them, to decipher the "code" for that specific road/locale/crew.

Fortunately, we don't have to know what they mean for our modeling purposes, they just have to be plausible.

Tony Thompson has written several posts about chalk marks on his blog, and I recommend you read them as they are well-written and informative.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

Jim King
 

I'm finalizing patterns (S scale) to create an M-15k from my M-53 patterns.  The "k" was offered as a mini-kit at a 2016 RPM meet and I've collected 2 articles written about that kit but, since I'm working in S scale, more info re: the underframe and Youngstown door is needed.  I have enough info to design the fishbelly underframe but am coming up empty on pix of cars with the Youngstown door.

Does anyone have photos of an M-15k post-mid-40s with the Youngstown door?  The M-53s had the original panel door replaced soon after WWII and, based on an email I rec'd today, the M-15k's were upgraded 1948-49 with Camel hardware which implies the Youngstown door was also used but is not stated as such in the notes.

CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Bill Keene
 

Hello Group,

I have begun to study chalk marks. Well ... actually just look more closely at them. The truth is that with few exceptions I have no idea what the chalk marks are trying to convey. 

Some might appear to be train numbers applied by a yard clerk to aid classifying a car to a specific train. Or perhaps they are track numbers? Or perhaps the marks denote something entirely else. Those that say to "hold" a car are understandable as are marks that explain or denote a bad order car. But the majority of marks are more or less a foreign language to me. 

Also, did the use of chalk marks change over time? That is, would the use or need for chalk marks change from the 1920s to the depression era, to the WWII era, to the post WWII era, etc?

With my past modeling, I have added chalk marks to my weathered models based simply on "looks". Now that I am modeling a specific stretch portion of a specific branch line, I am beginning to wonder about this random approach.

Any knowledge you can provide to this old dog modeler would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

Re: Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

Gary Roe
 

Thank you very much Mike!

gary



From: skibbs4 <mskibbe@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

Gary-

Yes, I'll mail you a set.  Ted was more than generous in running all scales, and it sounds like we missed getting you a set with your N mini-kit.

Mike Skibbe

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:50 AM Ted Culotta <speedwitchmedia@...> wrote:
There are/were N scale decals made for the FGEX cars too. Mike Skibbe might be able to speak up, but if not we can track some down somehow. Decals were run for HO, N, S, and O.

Cheers


Re: Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

skibbs4
 

Gary-

Yes, I'll mail you a set.  Ted was more than generous in running all scales, and it sounds like we missed getting you a set with your N mini-kit.

Mike Skibbe


On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:50 AM Ted Culotta <speedwitchmedia@...> wrote:
There are/were N scale decals made for the FGEX cars too. Mike Skibbe might be able to speak up, but if not we can track some down somehow. Decals were run for HO, N, S, and O.

Cheers

Re: Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

Ted Culotta
 

There are/were N scale decals made for the FGEX cars too. Mike Skibbe might be able to speak up, but if not we can track some down somehow. Decals were run for HO, N, S, and O.

Cheers

Re: Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Gary,
 
Microscale makes some FGEX decal sets in N, but I cannot say if they would be directly applicable to your situation or not. Check their web site and see.
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Roe
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 8:30 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

Ted made some fabulous decals for the HO Scale 2018 mini kit; but none were included in the N Scale version.  I have tried finding a reference as to what decals to use; but am coming up empty handed.

Does anyone know if there are accurate decals out there for the FGEX wood reefer in N Scale?

Thanks in advance!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

Gary Roe
 

Ted made some fabulous decals for the HO Scale 2018 mini kit; but none were included in the N Scale version.  I have tried finding a reference as to what decals to use; but am coming up empty handed.

Does anyone know if there are accurate decals out there for the FGEX wood reefer in N Scale?

Thanks in advance!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

Re: SAL AF-1/2 & B-7

George Courtney
 

One of the few advantages we S scalers have the HO boys.  He.He. Thanks, Jim.  Meant in good humor, folks.

George Courtney

Re: Speaking of Reefers

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Kevin,

Look on page 164 (2nd ed.) of Tony Thompson & Company's PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS. You do have a copy don't you?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 11/12/18 4:11 PM, csxt5555 via Groups.Io wrote:
Does anybody know where I can find drawings for an R40-10 reefer?  I thought I saw them published a while ago but I couldn’t remember.

Thanks
Kevin





Re: AM I LOSING IT?

Tim O'Connor
 


and don't forget the March 1987 issue RMC about PFE rebuilds


Sounds like it could be the March 1983 RMC?
Pete Ismail



On Monday, November 12, 2018, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@... > wrote:

I have a very vivid recollection of plans (and an article) of a PFE R-40-4 refer that appeared in a RMC issue in the 80’s or 90’s. The cover of this issue as I recall had a collage of items (including a John Allen character) in some sort af aniversity issue. I have combed the site that indexes the RMC issues and this cover does not appear.  This was not one fo the issues that had Tony Thompson’s excellent series on PFE.
Does anyone else recall this or is it a Pigment of m imagination?
Thanks:
Bill Pardie

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Speaking of Reefers

Ed Hawkins
 


On Nov 12, 2018, at 3:11 PM, csxt5555 via Groups.Io <csxt5555@...> wrote:

Does anybody know where I can find drawings for an R40-10 reefer?  I thought I saw them published a while ago but I couldn’t remember.

Kevin,
The National Museum of Transportation has 25 original ACF drawings for the R-40-10 reefers built in 1936-1937, lot numbers 1508 and 1609. These include general arrangement, brake arrangement, side construction, underframe arrangement, and numerous drawings of smaller assemblies and detail parts to include some interior. 

If you’re interested in a PDF list of available drawings, please contact me OFF LIST at hawk0621@....

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Speaking of Reefers

csxt5555
 

Does anybody know where I can find drawings for an R40-10 reefer? I thought I saw them published a while ago but I couldn’t remember.

Thanks
Kevin

Re: Sante Fe Express Box car easy to convert to "normal" freight car?

vapeurchapelon
 

John,
 
many thanks again, but - it may be strange, but this model would be for my 100%-brass freight train I am currently building.
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Montag, 12. November 2018 um 19:22 Uhr
Von: "John Barry" <northbaylines@...>
An: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sante Fe Express Box car easy to convert to "normal" freight car?
The Walthers (LifeLike) is a reasonable stand in out of the box but the decorated versions have an incorrect side panel count for the Santa Fe car.  The correct side panels are on the end door versions and a solution for an accurate model is to replace the end doors with an A end from another kit, cut out the side sill tabs, and repaint to suit.  As built, the freight versions came with Barber S-2 trucks, but many freight units got the Allied full cushion units in truck swaps with the passenger versions when they had derailment issues.  Others got ASF ride control trucks.
 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA
 
707-490-9696 
 
PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736

 


From: vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sante Fe Express Box car easy to convert to "normal" freight car?
 
Many thanks John,
 
I am modelling the early post-war years up to maybe '52 or '53. According to your notes it would be better to cenvert the model. (After I have found one - I am not the winner of this auction...)
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Montag, 12. November 2018 um 18:23 Uhr
Von: "John Barry" <northbaylines@...>
An: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sante Fe Express Box car easy to convert to "normal" freight car?
Johannes,
 
The ARA class BX Fe-24 represented by the Coach Yard model occasionally found it's way into freights as I've seen one photo of an instance in Ohio.  That said, it depends on when you model.  After AMTRAK, they all went into freight service, prior to that, the passenger equipped Fe-24s would be assigned to freight service during lulls in the express business.  So during WWII and Korea or any year during the Christmas rush, green express boxes in freights not so much.
 
John
 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA
 
707-490-9696 
 
PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736

 

From: vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 11:46 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Sante Fe Express Box car easy to convert to "normal" freight car?
 
Hello friends,

please have a look at this model:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-CY-AT-amp-SF-Express-Boxcar-FP-4211-Green-/142961353520?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=9mTv0M29qUj01fYqS%252B2D1Me5tKU%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

In order to convert it to an ordinary Box car, would it be sufficient just to remove the steam line, to add freight car coupler lift bars and a new paint job of course?
(Or did these cars in this form run in freight trains occasionally?)

Many thanks

Johannes

 
 

 

Re: AM I LOSING IT?

Pete Ismail
 

Sounds like it could be the March 1983 RMC?

Pete Ismail


On Monday, November 12, 2018, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

I have a very vivid recollection of plans (and an article) of a PFE R-40-4 refer that appeared in a RMC issue in the 80’s or 90’s.
The cover of this issue as I recall had a collage of items (including a John Allen character) in some sort af aniversity issue.
I have combed the site that indexes the RMC issues and this cover does not appear.  This was not one fo the issues that had
Tony Thompson’s excellent series on PFE.

Does anyone else recall this or is it a Pigment of m imagination?

Thanks:

Bill Pardie


Re: AM I LOSING IT?

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Pardie hyperventilated:
"I have a very vivid recollection of plans (and an article) of a PFE R-40-4 refer that appeared in a RMC issue in the 80’s or 90’s.
The cover of this issue as I recall had a collage of items (including a John Allen character) in some sort [of] [anniversary] issue.
I have combed the site that indexes the RMC issues and this cover does not appear.  This was not one [of] the issues that had
Tony Thompson’s excellent series on PFE.

Does anyone else recall this or is it a Pigment of my imagination?"

Not sure what color palette your imagination operates in...
Railroad Model Craftsman, March 1983.  The article you're looking for is Bob Mohowski's "End of the Ice Age - PFE reefers" on page 71.


Ben Hom