Date   
Oil companies for IM 8K tank

David
 

Ted Culotta put together a nice field guide to steam-era tank cars here:
http://speedwitchmedia.com/product/steam-era-freight-cars-reference-manual-volume-two/

As for the IM 8k ACT Type 27, most of those went to SHPX, with some to GATX (mostly ex-Canton Tank Car) and a scattering to a few other owners. Having said that, the tank itself can be mounted on frames from Tichy (1923 SSC-built Gulf Oil), Tangent (early-mid 1920s General American Tank Car), or SC&F (1920s Standard Tank Car).

David Thompson

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Kay wrote:
"It seems to me that chalk marks are the ideal subject for dry transfer type lettering.   I am a waterslide decal guy myself -- I feel more confident about being able to make adjustments to lettering after application, etc., but chalk marks are not usually straight or in a certain place, so being able to add them to a car after it is complete seems like a good thing.   I checked Clover House, and couldn't find any on their website.   Does anyone make these?"

You didn't look closely enough - they have them in multiple scales in white, yellow and black; however, the HO scale white and black sets look to be out of stock.  Root stock number is 9911.

You could get away with using some N or S scale markings for HO scale as these obviously varied in size depending on whomever was doing the marking.


Ben Hom

Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Ralph, I'll check that out
Fenton

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:21 PM Ralph W. Brown <rbrown51@...> wrote:
Hi Fenton,
 
I haven’t dug out my copy to check, but I suspect John White’s The American Railroad Freight Car might be a good place to start looking.  Other strong possibilities that come to mind are the Car Builders’ Dictionaries and the Car Builders’ Cyclopedias as appropriate for your era(s) of interest.  The Newton K. Gregg Train Shed Cyclopedias contained reprints from those and other publications.  Train Shed Cyclopedia No. 12, for example, pertained to “Tank Cars 1922-1943.”
 
Hope that helps.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 
From: O Fenton Wells
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 3:59 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oil companies for IM 8K tank
 
HO Tank Car Question: I don't know much about tank cars, so I was wondering if there is a resource that explains (in simple terms) the different frames, bodies and cars for a non-knowledgeable modeler like me.  I would love to know which frames work with which bodies, in a modeling sense.  I understand the info is out there but it has never been important enough to me to do the digging.  So is there a resource for guys like me e.g "Tank cars for Dummies"  ??
Thanking anyone in advance for their help.
Fenton Wells
 
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 3:13 PM Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:
Clark,

Richard Hendrickson wrote an article published in the UNION PACIFIC MODELER, volume 4 (1998) on the Sinclair fleet. According to his article, most of the fleet was composed of GA Type 1917 cars in both 8K and 10K, the larger recently offered with Sinclair lettering by Tangent. Sinclair did have some 10K ACF Type 21 cars, including a few with insulating jackets, both offered by Life-Like models. Apparently they did not have any ACF Type 27s like the Intermountains.

Kind Regards,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


On 11/13/18 2:22 PM, Clark Propst wrote:
I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst

 
 
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Fenton,
 
I haven’t dug out my copy to check, but I suspect John White’s The American Railroad Freight Car might be a good place to start looking.  Other strong possibilities that come to mind are the Car Builders’ Dictionaries and the Car Builders’ Cyclopedias as appropriate for your era(s) of interest.  The Newton K. Gregg Train Shed Cyclopedias contained reprints from those and other publications.  Train Shed Cyclopedia No. 12, for example, pertained to “Tank Cars 1922-1943.”
 
Hope that helps.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: O Fenton Wells
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 3:59 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oil companies for IM 8K tank
 
HO Tank Car Question: I don't know much about tank cars, so I was wondering if there is a resource that explains (in simple terms) the different frames, bodies and cars for a non-knowledgeable modeler like me.  I would love to know which frames work with which bodies, in a modeling sense.  I understand the info is out there but it has never been important enough to me to do the digging.  So is there a resource for guys like me e.g "Tank cars for Dummies"  ??
Thanking anyone in advance for their help.
Fenton Wells
 
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 3:13 PM Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:
Clark,

Richard Hendrickson wrote an article published in the UNION PACIFIC MODELER, volume 4 (1998) on the Sinclair fleet. According to his article, most of the fleet was composed of GA Type 1917 cars in both 8K and 10K, the larger recently offered with Sinclair lettering by Tangent. Sinclair did have some 10K ACF Type 21 cars, including a few with insulating jackets, both offered by Life-Like models. Apparently they did not have any ACF Type 27s like the Intermountains.

Kind Regards,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


On 11/13/18 2:22 PM, Clark Propst wrote:
I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst

 
 
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

StephenK
 

It seems to me that chalk marks are the ideal subject for dry transfer type lettering.   I am a waterslide decal guy myself -- I feel more confident about being able to make adjustments to lettering after application, etc., but chalk marks are not usually straight  or in a certain place, so being able to add them to a car after it ti s complete seems like a good thing.   I checked Clover House, and couldn't find any on their website.   Does anyone make these?

Steve Kay

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Tony Thompson
 

Remember that identifying a branch as a car destination was exactly what route cards were used for. There may well have been no need for a chalk mark.
Tony Thompson 


On Nov 13, 2018, at 3:22 PM, John Barry <northbaylines@...> wrote:

Bill,

Unless you have a rich stash of photos of period photos from your branch or the classification yard that served it, Bob's comment about "plausible" and random applies as the majority of the marks would have been from someplace else and random hieroglyphics are in order.  OTH, if you are so fortunate to have that stash, or the recollections of a yard crew that built the train for your branch, you may be able to decipher that ONE mark that directed the car to your line, be it the schedule number (not necessarily the ETT train #), an alpha code, or distinct pattern.  

Even if you can't discern that pattern, it is reasonable to make a guess that if the 53 train serves your branch and the 52 train serves the branch in the other TT direction that you could plausibly mark all of the cars you operate on your branch with a fresh 53 in a consistent spot along with an assortment of older, more faded random marks.


 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:42 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Hello Group,

I have begun to study chalk marks. Well ... actually just look more closely at them. The truth is that with few exceptions I have no idea what the chalk marks are trying to convey. 

Some might appear to be train numbers applied by a yard clerk to aid classifying a car to a specific train. Or perhaps they are track numbers? Or perhaps the marks denote something entirely else. Those that say to "hold" a car are understandable as are marks that explain or denote a bad order car. But the majority of marks are more or less a foreign language to me. 

Also, did the use of chalk marks change over time? That is, would the use or need for chalk marks change from the 1920s to the depression era, to the WWII era, to the post WWII era, etc?

With my past modeling, I have added chalk marks to my weathered models based simply on "looks". Now that I am modeling a specific stretch portion of a specific branch line, I am beginning to wonder about this random approach.

Any knowledge you can provide to this old dog modeler would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

O Fenton Wells
 

HO Tank Car Question: I don't know much about tank cars, so I was wondering if there is a resource that explains (in simple terms) the different frames, bodies and cars for a non-knowledgeable modeler like me.  I would love to know which frames work with which bodies, in a modeling sense.  I understand the info is out there but it has never been important enough to me to do the digging.  So is there a resource for guys like me e.g "Tank cars for Dummies"  ??
Thanking anyone in advance for their help.
Fenton Wells

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 3:13 PM Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:
Clark,

Richard Hendrickson wrote an article published in the UNION PACIFIC MODELER, volume 4 (1998) on the Sinclair fleet. According to his article, most of the fleet was composed of GA Type 1917 cars in both 8K and 10K, the larger recently offered with Sinclair lettering by Tangent. Sinclair did have some 10K ACF Type 21 cars, including a few with insulating jackets, both offered by Life-Like models. Apparently they did not have any ACF Type 27s like the Intermountains.

Kind Regards,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


On 11/13/18 2:22 PM, Clark Propst wrote:
I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Clark,

Richard Hendrickson wrote an article published in the UNION PACIFIC MODELER, volume 4 (1998) on the Sinclair fleet. According to his article, most of the fleet was composed of GA Type 1917 cars in both 8K and 10K, the larger recently offered with Sinclair lettering by Tangent. Sinclair did have some 10K ACF Type 21 cars, including a few with insulating jackets, both offered by Life-Like models. Apparently they did not have any ACF Type 27s like the Intermountains.

Kind Regards,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


On 11/13/18 2:22 PM, Clark Propst wrote:
I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst

Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Clark Propst
 

I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst

Re: SOO 136000

Dennis Storzek
 

I have nothing to add, Steve, other than I don't remember seeing the lowered panel, but wasn't looking for it, either. Then again, I was busy hanging on while trying to compose a shot with the camera with one hand, and as stated earlier in this discussion, the first seam doesn't show in the photo. I was somewhat surprised years later when I noticed that detail in the AAR drawing, but now have no way to check it out, as the car in Neenah is long gone.

I did mention further up the thread that at least the general arrangement drawing should be at the Pullman Library at IRM. the cars were  Lot 5534, and the tall cars were Lot 5536. IRM isn't that expensive for a single drawing, and then you'll know for sure.

Dennis Storzek

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Armand Premo
 

I believe Sunshine had a series of Chalk mark decals that were either road specific or by region ? Armand Premo

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:42 PM Robert Heninger <gn2059@...> wrote:
Bill,

Here's a link to one of Tony's posts, that contains a couple additional embedded links with further information.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/search?q=chalk+mark

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Bill Keene
 

Thanks John,

Back to the photos of which I have few that are of my 1952-53 period. 

The thought has come to mind that I am over worrying this chalk mark thing a bit. Comes naturally, I guess. My Dad was somewhat close to being the ultimate worrier. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Nov 13, 2018, at 10:22 AM, John Barry <northbaylines@...> wrote:

Bill,

Unless you have a rich stash of photos of period photos from your branch or the classification yard that served it, Bob's comment about "plausible" and random applies as the majority of the marks would have been from someplace else and random hieroglyphics are in order.  OTH, if you are so fortunate to have that stash, or the recollections of a yard crew that built the train for your branch, you may be able to decipher that ONE mark that directed the car to your line, be it the schedule number (not necessarily the ETT train #), an alpha code, or distinct pattern.  

Even if you can't discern that pattern, it is reasonable to make a guess that if the 53 train serves your branch and the 52 train serves the branch in the other TT direction that you could plausibly mark all of the cars you operate on your branch with a fresh 53 in a consistent spot along with an assortment of older, more faded random marks.


 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:42 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Hello Group,

I have begun to study chalk marks. Well ... actually just look more closely at them. The truth is that with few exceptions I have no idea what the chalk marks are trying to convey. 

Some might appear to be train numbers applied by a yard clerk to aid classifying a car to a specific train. Or perhaps they are track numbers? Or perhaps the marks denote something entirely else. Those that say to "hold" a car are understandable as are marks that explain or denote a bad order car. But the majority of marks are more or less a foreign language to me. 

Also, did the use of chalk marks change over time? That is, would the use or need for chalk marks change from the 1920s to the depression era, to the WWII era, to the post WWII era, etc?

With my past modeling, I have added chalk marks to my weathered models based simply on "looks". Now that I am modeling a specific stretch portion of a specific branch line, I am beginning to wonder about this random approach.

Any knowledge you can provide to this old dog modeler would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

John Barry
 

Bill,

Unless you have a rich stash of photos of period photos from your branch or the classification yard that served it, Bob's comment about "plausible" and random applies as the majority of the marks would have been from someplace else and random hieroglyphics are in order.  OTH, if you are so fortunate to have that stash, or the recollections of a yard crew that built the train for your branch, you may be able to decipher that ONE mark that directed the car to your line, be it the schedule number (not necessarily the ETT train #), an alpha code, or distinct pattern.  

Even if you can't discern that pattern, it is reasonable to make a guess that if the 53 train serves your branch and the 52 train serves the branch in the other TT direction that you could plausibly mark all of the cars you operate on your branch with a fresh 53 in a consistent spot along with an assortment of older, more faded random marks.


 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:42 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Hello Group,

I have begun to study chalk marks. Well ... actually just look more closely at them. The truth is that with few exceptions I have no idea what the chalk marks are trying to convey. 

Some might appear to be train numbers applied by a yard clerk to aid classifying a car to a specific train. Or perhaps they are track numbers? Or perhaps the marks denote something entirely else. Those that say to "hold" a car are understandable as are marks that explain or denote a bad order car. But the majority of marks are more or less a foreign language to me. 

Also, did the use of chalk marks change over time? That is, would the use or need for chalk marks change from the 1920s to the depression era, to the WWII era, to the post WWII era, etc?

With my past modeling, I have added chalk marks to my weathered models based simply on "looks". Now that I am modeling a specific stretch portion of a specific branch line, I am beginning to wonder about this random approach.

Any knowledge you can provide to this old dog modeler would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Bill Keene
 

Thank you Bob for your comments. I have also been through Tony’s blogs. Had them bookmarked for some time. 

My layout is basically the tail end of a branch line. It is a down and back operation with one mixed train daily except Sunday. My concern is basically one of would there be a common chalk mark on all or most cars that are destined for towns on this 52-mile long branch? ATSF Train #79 originated at Ottawa, Kansas, then ran as an extra the four miles southward to BN JCT, then out the Burlington District — aka the Gridley Branch — to Gridley where it turned as train #80 for the run back to Ottawa. The traffic is mostly load inbound and empties outbound. 

It is this little detail of the possibility of a specific chalk mark that would denote operations onto the Gridley Branch when the train was assembled in Ottawa that is my concern. These cars would have arrived in Ottawa from three major points: Kansas City (Argentine Yard), Emporia, and Chanute. As previously mentioned, I have been applying chalk marks for “looks” but wonder if there might be a specific mark such as a “79” perhaps circled that should be included in the final modeling. 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Nov 13, 2018, at 9:37 AM, Robert Heninger <gn2059@...> wrote:

Bill,

Unfortunately, chalk markings were not codified and standardized, and were specific only to that train crew, or yard crews. Other than the obvious ones that are written in plain English, the specific meanings have been lost to time. Your speculations as to track numbers, door numbers, etc. are all valid, but in general, you can't look at a photo of a specific car and make anything more that a SWAG about the specific meanings of the individual marks. You'd need to talk to the person who wrote them, to decipher the "code" for that specific road/locale/crew.

Fortunately, we don't have to know what they mean for our modeling purposes, they just have to be plausible.

Tony Thompson has written several posts about chalk marks on his blog, and I recommend you read them as they are well-written and informative.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Re: SOO 136000

steve_wintner
 

Gents, Dennis especially,

I'm interested in modelling this roof. As far as I understand, Stan Rydarowicz's line is no longer available. So I'm thinking of scratchbuilding. 

I'll look Dennis's photos over, but did anyone ever find more regarding the lower end panel (Bob's comment)? Any other significandt differences between the drawing and as-built version that I should be watching for? 

Thanks
Steve

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Robert Heninger
 

Bill,

Here's a link to one of Tony's posts, that contains a couple additional embedded links with further information.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/search?q=chalk+mark

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Robert Heninger
 

Bill,

Unfortunately, chalk markings were not codified and standardized, and were specific only to that train crew, or yard crews. Other than the obvious ones that are written in plain English, the specific meanings have been lost to time. Your speculations as to track numbers, door numbers, etc. are all valid, but in general, you can't look at a photo of a specific car and make anything more that a SWAG about the specific meanings of the individual marks. You'd need to talk to the person who wrote them, to decipher the "code" for that specific road/locale/crew.

Fortunately, we don't have to know what they mean for our modeling purposes, they just have to be plausible.

Tony Thompson has written several posts about chalk marks on his blog, and I recommend you read them as they are well-written and informative.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

Jim King
 

I'm finalizing patterns (S scale) to create an M-15k from my M-53 patterns.  The "k" was offered as a mini-kit at a 2016 RPM meet and I've collected 2 articles written about that kit but, since I'm working in S scale, more info re: the underframe and Youngstown door is needed.  I have enough info to design the fishbelly underframe but am coming up empty on pix of cars with the Youngstown door.

Does anyone have photos of an M-15k post-mid-40s with the Youngstown door?  The M-53s had the original panel door replaced soon after WWII and, based on an email I rec'd today, the M-15k's were upgraded 1948-49 with Camel hardware which implies the Youngstown door was also used but is not stated as such in the notes.

CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Bill Keene
 

Hello Group,

I have begun to study chalk marks. Well ... actually just look more closely at them. The truth is that with few exceptions I have no idea what the chalk marks are trying to convey. 

Some might appear to be train numbers applied by a yard clerk to aid classifying a car to a specific train. Or perhaps they are track numbers? Or perhaps the marks denote something entirely else. Those that say to "hold" a car are understandable as are marks that explain or denote a bad order car. But the majority of marks are more or less a foreign language to me. 

Also, did the use of chalk marks change over time? That is, would the use or need for chalk marks change from the 1920s to the depression era, to the WWII era, to the post WWII era, etc?

With my past modeling, I have added chalk marks to my weathered models based simply on "looks". Now that I am modeling a specific stretch portion of a specific branch line, I am beginning to wonder about this random approach.

Any knowledge you can provide to this old dog modeler would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

Re: Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

Gary Roe
 

Thank you very much Mike!

gary



From: skibbs4 <mskibbe@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Decals for N Scale 2018 Mini Kit

Gary-

Yes, I'll mail you a set.  Ted was more than generous in running all scales, and it sounds like we missed getting you a set with your N mini-kit.

Mike Skibbe

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:50 AM Ted Culotta <speedwitchmedia@...> wrote:
There are/were N scale decals made for the FGEX cars too. Mike Skibbe might be able to speak up, but if not we can track some down somehow. Decals were run for HO, N, S, and O.

Cheers