Date   

Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

 

Doug,

I see that about 1/4 of the cars carried "Distillate".  Is this kerosene or?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide


Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Eric,
 
Thanks for posting this image - a fascinating view of what life might have been like in 1927! Great freight cars too!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

There are some interesting chalk marks on these boxcars. Some seem to have consecutive numbers. I suspect they may be marked to spot quickly.This is an October 1927 photo documenting a replacement bridge project connecting the Oakland and Bloomfield neighborhoods in Pittsburgh. It spanned a valley and the Pennsy main line. An important B&O line is also in this image. The boxcars are sitting on B&O rails, originally the Pittsburgh Junction Railroad. Check them out for interesting weathering, chalk marks, route cards, and weigh stenciling.

After the link opens, click the View this Item link, or the image. Find the four buttons in the upper left corner of the image and click on the left button to make the image full screen. Zoom in at will to review the details. It's a nice size scan.

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.275224.CP

 

 

Those billboards are the only clean things in this image.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro,TN

 

 

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 10:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

 

I found information about chalk markings from a number of sources which I incorporated into a clinic. Below are some of what I found.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

Markings could communicate a variety of instructions and freight car conditions:

Required handling of a specific car or load

Condition of equipment that needed repair

"OK"  or a check mark chalked over a truck to indicate a bearing had  been checked

Indication of an item's dimensions

Notations about car routings and interchanges

Track assignments for individual cars

Outgoing train numbers

Industrial siding information

Customer information

Assigned car spot at a customer’s facility

Humping instructions for cars switched in a gravity yard

Destinations

Car contents

Perishable instructions

“MT” for an empty car

Whether the shipment was all going to one consignee or where it should be first delivered.

Fragile freight

Special loading and unloading instructions

 

Chalk marks were not a universal language. Codes varied from yard to yard, railroad to railroad and era to era.

 

To determine  which chalk marks to respond to, sometimes individual yard crewmen would make their mark in one particular area so fellow crewman would know how to respond to what might be a jumble of chalk marks. Or a crewman might take the time to wipe off a mark and this occasionally is seen in photos.

 

Here is how one railroader described his work:

“I read the destination cards stapled to the cars. We could determine where the various blocks started and ended and then chalk the cuts. The other switchman marked the cut positions using bold letters and arrows so we could find them in the dark.

Doing this was far better than standing next to the train looking at a list, trying to find a car by its number.”

 


Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Eric Hansmann
 

There are some interesting chalk marks on these boxcars. Some seem to have consecutive numbers. I suspect they may be marked to spot quickly.This is an October 1927 photo documenting a replacement bridge project connecting the Oakland and Bloomfield neighborhoods in Pittsburgh. It spanned a valley and the Pennsy main line. An important B&O line is also in this image. The boxcars are sitting on B&O rails, originally the Pittsburgh Junction Railroad. Check them out for interesting weathering, chalk marks, route cards, and weigh stenciling.

After the link opens, click the View this Item link, or the image. Find the four buttons in the upper left corner of the image and click on the left button to make the image full screen. Zoom in at will to review the details. It's a nice size scan.

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.275224.CP

 

 

Those billboards are the only clean things in this image.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro,TN

 

 

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 10:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

 

I found information about chalk markings from a number of sources which I incorporated into a clinic. Below are some of what I found.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

Markings could communicate a variety of instructions and freight car conditions:

Required handling of a specific car or load

Condition of equipment that needed repair

"OK"  or a check mark chalked over a truck to indicate a bearing had  been checked

Indication of an item's dimensions

Notations about car routings and interchanges

Track assignments for individual cars

Outgoing train numbers

Industrial siding information

Customer information

Assigned car spot at a customer’s facility

Humping instructions for cars switched in a gravity yard

Destinations

Car contents

Perishable instructions

“MT” for an empty car

Whether the shipment was all going to one consignee or where it should be first delivered.

Fragile freight

Special loading and unloading instructions

 

Chalk marks were not a universal language. Codes varied from yard to yard, railroad to railroad and era to era.

 

To determine  which chalk marks to respond to, sometimes individual yard crewmen would make their mark in one particular area so fellow crewman would know how to respond to what might be a jumble of chalk marks. Or a crewman might take the time to wipe off a mark and this occasionally is seen in photos.

 

Here is how one railroader described his work:

“I read the destination cards stapled to the cars. We could determine where the various blocks started and ended and then chalk the cuts. The other switchman marked the cut positions using bold letters and arrows so we could find them in the dark.

Doing this was far better than standing next to the train looking at a list, trying to find a car by its number.”

 


Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Douglas Harding
 

I should point out that there are spreadsheets in the group files, covering portions of these Station Record books. The books list each car that arrived and left the station, the contents of the car, who received the load, where the car came from and where it was headed. The books cover two small towns from the early 40s to the early 60s. While I have not transcribed every page, I have done several years and put them into an Excel spreadsheet. In the group files look for M&StL Station Books,

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 8:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oil companies for IM 8K tank

 

Hello Clark & Group!

 

Doug Harding has posted a nice list of tank car activity there in Iowa 69 years back.  Commenting on the five Sinclair loads, I can offer that SDRX 14831 and 14868 are Pennsylvania Tank Car Co. cars for which there has been no commercial model I know.  SDRX 10810 and PARX are General American cars that the Sunshine and Tangent models represent well in HO.  The fifth car, SHPX 21348, is a Shippers Car Line car used to bring a Sinclair product to the customer.  I have no idea on the details of this car.

 

Regards from Grove City, Penna.  Mike Schleigh

 

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018, 12:24:33 AM EST, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

 

 

Clark attached is a spreadsheet showing the tank cars that were dropped in two small MSTL towns in Iowa in 1949.  The data comes from the Station Records books, which I gave you copies of some time ago.  While not the towns on the section of the MSTL you are modeling, this should give you an idea of the type of cars coming on the railroad, and where they were coming from. Tim Gilbert did a lot of the extra research identifying the cars after I compiled the basic listings.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oil companies for IM 8K tank

 

I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst


Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Bob Chaparro
 

I found information about chalk markings from a number of sources which I incorporated into a clinic. Below are some of what I found.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

Markings could communicate a variety of instructions and freight car conditions:

Required handling of a specific car or load

Condition of equipment that needed repair

"OK"  or a check mark chalked over a truck to indicate a bearing had  been checked

Indication of an item's dimensions

Notations about car routings and interchanges

Track assignments for individual cars

Outgoing train numbers

Industrial siding information

Customer information

Assigned car spot at a customer’s facility

Humping instructions for cars switched in a gravity yard

Destinations

Car contents

Perishable instructions

“MT” for an empty car

Whether the shipment was all going to one consignee or where it should be first delivered.

Fragile freight

Special loading and unloading instructions

 

Chalk marks were not a universal language. Codes varied from yard to yard, railroad to railroad and era to era.

 

To determine  which chalk marks to respond to, sometimes individual yard crewmen would make their mark in one particular area so fellow crewman would know how to respond to what might be a jumble of chalk marks. Or a crewman might take the time to wipe off a mark and this occasionally is seen in photos.

 

Here is how one railroader described his work:

“I read the destination cards stapled to the cars. We could determine where the various blocks started and ended and then chalk the cuts. The other switchman marked the cut positions using bold letters and arrows so we could find them in the dark.

Doing this was far better than standing next to the train looking at a list, trying to find a car by its number.”

 


Re: Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

Jim King
 

Bob,

 

I’m simply modifying a 1st generation M-53 body casting to include the notched side sills and C-channel bottom door track.  M-15k’s had different ends based on photos I’ve seen and some comments sent by S scalers.  The 3 double rows of rivets on the M-53 also appeared on M-15ks (my photos show those) but some had just 2 double rows.  What I’m mainly after now is photo proof of a Youngstown door installation but it appears the flat panel doors stayed with the “k’s” until they were rebuilt again and reclassed.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Clark & Group!

Doug Harding has posted a nice list of tank car activity there in Iowa 69 years back.  Commenting on the five Sinclair loads, I can offer that SDRX 14831 and 14868 are Pennsylvania Tank Car Co. cars for which there has been no commercial model I know.  SDRX 10810 and PARX are General American cars that the Sunshine and Tangent models represent well in HO.  The fifth car, SHPX 21348, is a Shippers Car Line car used to bring a Sinclair product to the customer.  I have no idea on the details of this car.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.  Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018, 12:24:33 AM EST, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:


Clark attached is a spreadsheet showing the tank cars that were dropped in two small MSTL towns in Iowa in 1949.  The data comes from the Station Records books, which I gave you copies of some time ago.  While not the towns on the section of the MSTL you are modeling, this should give you an idea of the type of cars coming on the railroad, and where they were coming from. Tim Gilbert did a lot of the extra research identifying the cars after I compiled the basic listings.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oil companies for IM 8K tank

 

I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst


Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Douglas Harding
 

Clark attached is a spreadsheet showing the tank cars that were dropped in two small MSTL towns in Iowa in 1949.  The data comes from the Station Records books, which I gave you copies of some time ago.  While not the towns on the section of the MSTL you are modeling, this should give you an idea of the type of cars coming on the railroad, and where they were coming from. Tim Gilbert did a lot of the extra research identifying the cars after I compiled the basic listings.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oil companies for IM 8K tank

 

I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst


Re: Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Not to depart from the railroad connection, and I am a B&O fan who has a couple such box cars in HO and O, but I’d really prefer to have that Studebaker.

John Hagen

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 9:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

 

Here's the attachment.


Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

CJ Riley <cjriley42@...>
 

  Amused by the crooked "decals"


Re: Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

rwitt_2000
 

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:00 PM, Jim King wrote:
I'm finalizing patterns (S scale) to create an M-15k from my M-53 patterns. 
Jim,

Another consideration, are you planning to offer the two the three piece ends in addition to the one piece one as used on the M-53?

Bob Witt


Re: Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

rwitt_2000
 

Here's the attachment.


Re: Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

rwitt_2000
 

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:00 PM, Jim King wrote:
Does anyone have photos of an M-15k post-mid-40s with the Youngstown door? 
I don't recall seeing any photos of M-15K with Youngstown doors. Attached is a photo that looks like a group of M-15 wagon-tops being staged in Vincennes, Ind. prior to entering the rebuilding program at the Washington, Ind. car shops ~1955-1956. They all still have their Tatum flat steel doors.  The date you give 1948-49 I believe coincides with the memo issued to upgrade the doors on the M-53. It may have included the M-15 wagon-tops, but according to Jim Miscjke, who has a copy of the memo, the program did not move forward and doors were only replaced as needed.

I may add that the Pullman Library has general arrangement drawings from Standard Steel Car, of the original M-15 that would give you all the information needed to model the original fishbelly underframes.  I have found that all the resin kits produced to date have the truck center distance too short.

Bob Witt


Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Schleigh Mike
 

I concur with Garth----

I know of no Type 27 8K gallon cars in the Sinclair fleet.

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.

On Tuesday, November 13, 2018, 3:13:52 PM EST, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:


Clark,

Richard Hendrickson wrote an article published in the UNION PACIFIC MODELER, volume 4 (1998) on the Sinclair fleet. According to his article, most of the fleet was composed of GA Type 1917 cars in both 8K and 10K, the larger recently offered with Sinclair lettering by Tangent. Sinclair did have some 10K ACF Type 21 cars, including a few with insulating jackets, both offered by Life-Like models. Apparently they did not have any ACF Type 27s like the Intermountains.

Kind Regards,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


On 11/13/18 2:22 PM, Clark Propst wrote:
I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Propst


Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/13/2018 3:50 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
John,

Go back and re-read my post.

Oops!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Benjamin Hom
 

John,

Go back and re-read my post.

1.  I was answering a question.
2.  I posted a link to search results for chalk marks of all scales, and mentioned that the only ones in stock were yellow ones.


Ben Hom


From: Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

On 11/13/2018 1:32 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
I checked Clover House, and couldn't find any on their website.
Ben,
    I just ordered some from Clover House.  After hunting for a while I did a search and they showed up.  Only problem is they only had yellow.  I did order a bunch of rejects to play with.
-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



Re: CHALK MARKS QUESTION #2

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/13/2018 1:32 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
I checked Clover House, and couldn't find any on their website.

Ben,

    I just ordered some from Clover House.  After hunting for a while I did a search and they showed up.  Only problem is they only had yellow.  I did order a bunch of rejects to play with.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Need B&O M-15k Youngstown door help

David
 

Does anyone have photos of an M-15k post-mid-40s with the Youngstown door?
RPC #9 implies (but doesn't quite state outright) that the Youngstown doors were part of the mid-'50s program to rebuild the M-15k's with new underframes.

David Thompson


Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Robert Heninger
 

Thank you Steve. I guess UTLX doesn't work for Clark's tank car.

Clark, another possibility is a North American tank car, built by Pressed Steel car. Article by Richard Hendrickson in Ted's PRM, Volume 1:

http://speedwitchmedia.com/product/prototype-railroad-modeling-volume-one/

This kitbash used the Tichy underframe and IM 8k Type 27 tank.

Or, you could just sell the kit to one of the hoarders on the list!

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: Oil companies for IM 8K tank

Tim O'Connor
 


Paint it generically - SHPX 20003, for example. And check out the trucks!

Tim O'Connor


I have Sinclair, Mobil, DX, and Standard oil jobbers on my layout. I have an extra Intermountain 8K gal tank car that's excess. Any of those oil companies own anything like the IM car? I do have two Tichy frames if they'd help with a kitbash?
Thanks, Clark Pr
opst

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

34801 - 34820 of 194714