Date   

Re: Fw: Walthers PRR R50b Express Reefer

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Mike,

I agree with Tim in respect to the appearance and operation of the Rail
Classics trucks. I guess that we as modelers are spoiled with the near
perfect appearance of the cars and trucks with which we operate with.
In reality, if one looks at the prototype rolling stock and trucks, you
would be appalled at what you find. Many of the truck side castings
resemble something that someone beat out with a sledgehammer after they
have been around for a few years. The same goes for most of the rolling
stock. Wear and tear, derailments and ordinary repair work takes it's
toll on all the equipment in use!

After being around prototype rolling stock for 38 years, I can tell you
that none of it looks like anything that we expect to roll out of an
Overland or PFM or Proto box in miniature.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware
tmolsen@udel.edu


Tim O'Connor wrote:


Mike, I might say something about the quality (or lack thereof) of
Smokey Valley products, but they're entirely out of the steam era.

I'm sure if I scanned almost any model truck at 600 DPI there would
be obvious flaws or mistakes... But painted and placed under an R50b
the Rail Classics trucks are not only beautiful, but will outperform
any plastic truck I've ever seen. I put my R50b on the club layout on
the slightest of grades (perhaps .25%) and the thing just took off
"downhill" travelling about 40-50 feet before I stopped it from going
into a tunnel. Most other equipment placed on the same track won't
even roll, much less roll away at high speed.

Larry Jackman sends an opinion below concerning the Rail Classics truck as
referenced by Tim O'Connor. I might remind STMFC members that both pro and
con opinions regarding models are permitted in this group.
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts

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Re: RPC #8

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

My copy arrived Tuesday and I second the motion! Keep up the good work!

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware
tmolsen@udel.edu

JGG KahnSr wrote:


I just got my copy of Ed Hawkins' latest (and the first I was tempted to
buy); it is well-worth getting.
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

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Re: Walthers PRR R50b Express Reefer

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Ben, I second your observation on this subject as to how many can you
afford. To fill out the trains that I intend to run when I get the
layout up and running (Yes, I plan to start after the first of the year
as I am retiring Dec. 1st), there should be at least a dozen or so.
Eddie's cars went for about $190 each painted and about $165 unpainted.
That comes to about $2300/$1900 and they were worth every penny, but who
can afford it.

How many cars can you buy with that kind of cabbage. If Martin brings
them out, figure about $50/60 with trucks. There is a place here in
Delaware that is selling the Walther's cars for just over $20 each.

If you are a Pennsy modeler, there is no such thing as a couple of
anything! The same goes for X29's in passenger service! Back in the
middle '60s, the standard cabin car on the end of New York to
Washington/Washington to New York passenger trains was an X-29 in
express service with markers. I took a lot of movies from Lamokin Tower
in Chester, Pa. when working as a Block Operator (Pennsyspeak for
Towerman) to prove that.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware
tmolsen@udel.edu

Benjamin Frank Hom wrote:


Tim O'Connor wrote:
Those Rail Classics R50b's were awesome. The trucks are
nothing short of incredible. Charles unless you're an SPF
why bother with the Walthers model?

The same reason why brass Class X29's don't work - they're great models, but
unless you have an unlimited budget, you simply can't afford the number that
you'll need. These things went everywhere.

Ben Hom

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Re: Walthers PRR R50b Express Reefer

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Good morning,

In regard to the Walther's R50B. I saw them at Mitchell's in
Wilmington, DE on Tuesday afternoon and was pleasantly surprised. At
first, I thought that they had made an error in recessing the reefer
doors ever so slightly. On arrival back home, I examined the photos and
found that this was done correctly, whereas the older Alco/NKP Products
brass cars had been made with the flush doors that were in error. The
undecorated car was better than I had expected considering it's origin,
although the price was the same as the decorated cars. I hope to have
an opportunity to handle one out of the box shortly.

Several thoughts on trucks: I have about a dozen pair of Eddie Piazza's
2D-P5 trucks in friction bearings and about two dozen pair in Hyatt and
Timken. Tim is correct in his statement that they roll VERY freely. So
much, in fact, that I suggest that if you place them on a table top, do
not look away as they will disappear before you can look back.

The main drawback to Eddie's trucks is the prototype bolster that they
are equipped with. These trucks were made to fit the Rail Classic's
R50Bs which have a prototype center sill and bolster. Scott Pagliughi
in Vineland NJ found that to retrofit Alco and Nickel Plate Products
(ancient) brass R50Bs, you have to rebuild the center sill and bolster
to use them as these cars were made to accept the flat sheet brass
bolsters that have been in use on just about every truck since the
beginning of the hobby. I do not know if Martin has designed his car
bolster and center sill to accept this truck or whether the new
Walther's car will accept this truck.

John Green of Bethlehem Car Works is in the process of having 2D-P5
trucks cast in lead (for the Kit-Bits Line) that will have the old style
bolster. The last time I spoke with John (Timonium, the end of
January), he advised that his die maker in California was working on the
trucks, but did not have a delivery date as yet.

As far as Martin putting out the R50B: I have tried to get him to make
them available as Private Stock to see how many will sell, but he was
reluctant to do so and has adopted a wait and see attitude due to the
imminent arrival of the Walther's car. Perhaps, when John makes his
truck available, Martin may relent. He has yet to do the molds to make
a test shot of the car and has not done the Prototype Data Sheet nor the
instructions for the kit. Everything else is ready to go.

Decals are available from Champ for this car in the revised set HX-24
which replaces HX/XR-5. Again, Kudos, go to Bob Johnson, our PRRT&HS
Archive Director, who over the past several years has worked hard to
assist Rich Meyer at Champ to revise many of the PRR decal sets to bring
them in line with the railroad's lettering diagrams.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
PH: 302-738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu

Tim O'Connor wrote:


Greg and all, the 2DP5 trucks are available in brass from Railworks. They
are the Rail Classics trucks. They come in a couple of different styles.
Here is the Hyatt Bearing version.

http://home.attbi.com/~timoconnor/trains/2dp5.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~timoconnor/trains/2dp5topbot.jpg

They roll incredibly freely.

========================================================
In lite of the things have been listed as short comings I would hope that you
all might reconsider the early assessment of the kit and more forward and buy
with confidence. I believe at some point Walthers will offer them in undecorated,
but I would think you would be hard pressed to do better. So far as Martin doing
the kit, unless he plans to do a truck, Walthers is going to release these truck
after 2004, unless they decide to go forward with the B60b as considered and then
it will be longer. So the truck becomes a problem.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts

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FGE Wood Reefers

jbjmskeels <jbjmskeels@msn.com> <jbjmskeels@...>
 

When did FGE apply steel running boards and power hand brakes to
wood reefers? I've seen photos of cars in the 1960s with these
features, but I believe that FGE (and WFE) applied this stuff much
earlier to some cars. I'm particularly interested in doing a 36000
to 37999 series car in the post 1953 paint scheme of all yellow
sides, FCR ends, silver roof,and black u/f, with simplified
lettering. If anyone can verify that any of these cars had the
steel R/B and Power hand brake ca. 1955, I would greatly appreciate
it.

Thanks; Jeff Skeels


Re: 10 foot box cars (was B&O M-72 Boxcar)

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

Pere Marquette (double doors)
These were built to the AMC 50-foot auto box design.

KCS didn't have them (their 50' single door cars were 10'4" IH)
Recheck that ORER: KCS 25000-25049 (MC,2/37) with a single 6-ft Pullman
door.

ACL (10'1" IH. double Superior 7-panel doors)
The O-22 class? Those were clones of the AMC 50-foot auto box except for
trucks, roof, and doors.

And I've probably overlooked some others.
MEC 9000-9049.

David Thompson


Re: Plano tank car walkway (was decals for Gould/Tichy)

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Ron Hildebrand wrote

BTW, when I was on the Plano site this past weekend, I noticed
that they make walkways for the Red Caboose car. Has anyone used
these? They almost look too fragile.
Yes, they are too fragile because they are not prototypical. The
prototype walkways have some depth to them that could have been
modeled as a 90 degree stiffener along the length of the walkway.
Before applying the part you would bend the stiffener into shape
and you'd get a very strong, rigid walkway. As it is, you can try
to glue a brass .02x.02 piece along the length for extra strength.
Or just glue them on top of the existing walkways! (This is one of
the suggestions in the instructions.)

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: 10 foot box cars (was B&O M-72 Boxcar)

Richard Hendrickson
 

David Thompson replied to Ted Culotta

Creating a list of steel 50' 10'0" IH cars would certainly be
a worthwhile endeavor.
We already did that (or at least started on one) a few months ago.
I think we briefly talked about it, but no one tried to compile a
list of all new steel 50 foot cars built with 10 foot interiors. I
think such a list would be pretty short! B&O, SOU, KCS (?), ... ok,
that's it AFAIK. :o)
Add to this CofGa (1-1/2 door cars, three number series), Pere Marquette
(double doors), Illinois Terminal (7000-7049, blt. 1941, single 6' doors,
and the ITC also acquired 50 double door 50' cars of 10'1" IH second-hand
in 1962, perhaps from ACL. KCS didn't have them (their 50' single door
cars were 10'4" IH), but Louisiana and Arkansas did (16001-16300, single
door cars with 8' doors). WofA (17200-17219, single 6' doors), U. S. Navy
(two series of ammunition cars with 1-1/2 Superior panel doors one built
prewar, one postwar PS-1), and ACL (10'1" IH. double Superior 7-panel
doors). Norfolk Southern (the REAL Norfolk Southern) also got some second
hand in the late 1950s, also possibly from ACL.
SAL had some built in '36 with X29-style ends and roofs and 12' double
doors. Soo Line had a bunch of 10'1" IH cars built in '37 with centered
double doors. And I've probably overlooked some others. So there were
many of these cars than Tim imagined.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Digest Number 1062

Richard L. Meyer <champ@...>
 

_________________________________________________________________
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:27:48 -0800
From: SteamFreight@hilstudio.com
Subject: decals for Gould/Tichy USRA 10k gal tank cars

I dug out a couple of very old unbuilt Gould USRA tank cars that I had
purchased many years ago (don't even remember why, as I was modeling 1/4"
scale at the time). I tried to order decals over the weekend, and it seems
that Champ no longer has any appropriate tank car decals left,

Rich Meyer here ---
Where did you check, with a dealer or direct to us at Champ. I believe one
set in yellow lettering is back/ordered due to the long EPA problems
prohibiting our custom INK maker to make us any yellow that would have any
opacity --- but other than that, I believe all the rest of the 35 diff. tank
car decals are available in HO, so I would think we have enuf to cover many
tank cars.


. My modeling era is 1954, and it is that somewhat early date that
seems to be the problem in finding something other than the out of
production Champs.
Ron, you make it sound like all our tank car sets are out of production.
See my notes above. Which one did someone's dealer say was not available???

Too many dealers, and modelers are making "blanket statements" about Champ
Decals, without knowing any of the facts.

Our lease for printing plant is up next weekend, but we got a month-to-month
extension, so we can finish our reprinting of the more popular sets, before
close the PRINTING PLANT,,,, NOT CHAMP itself. We have a huge inventory to
sell down, and feel it will, Lord willing be something like 5 or 6 years
before we have sold down enough that there are alot cancellation notices.

Thanks,

Ron Hildebrand
______________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 02:00:02 -0500
From: "Ned Carey" <westernmd@erols.com>
Subject: Re: decals for Gould/Tichy USRA 10k gal tank cars

I dug out a couple of very old unbuilt Gould USRA tank cars
Can anyone guide me to some currently available decals correct for these
cars? > Ron Hildebrand
Ron,

.
AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, THE FOLLOWING TWO LINES SEEM TO BE FALSELY
OVERSTATED, AS TO OUR STOCK OF TANK CAR DECALS.

See Ned's note below----- (3rd and 4th lines)
I tried to order decals over the weekend, and it seems
that Champ no longer has any appropriate tank car decals left,
I just looked at Champs list and they had lots of tank decals listed. The
tank decals are in their own section of misc tank sets

Ned.




Message: 22
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:36:41 -0800
From: SteamFreight@hilstudio.com
Subject: Re: decals for Gould/Tichy USRA 10k gal tank cars

I, too, thought there should be no problems in obtaining the decals from
Champ, and placed the order through my local shop on Saturday. The catalog
did indeed list a number of decal sets, but when the shop called Champ
today, they were told there
was no stock!!.


DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR LOCAL SHOP ACTUALLY CALLED CHAMP? Since July of 2001,
we only answer our phone LIVE, Tues, Wed & Thursday, and between 10 a.m. and
3 p.m. Central time, on those days, -- so we can get some of our work done,
and the gals can get he UPS orders out by 4 PM deadline.

If your dealer truly called, which set(s) did he ask about, so I can check
with the order clerk as to what was discussed -- I need to know if your
dealer is trying to get our decals for you, or taking the easy route of many
shops, who just say," Champ doesn't have anything!!" They apparently do
not read their dealer newsletter with their counter copies of our catalog,
NOR any of our ads. YES, it is our Final Catalog, but other ads advise Biz
as Usual, for 4 to 5 years yet. Rest our case.
Don't believe every rumor you hear. I don't want to eat up space, and I
think someone copied our
"The Rest of The Story" ala Paul Harvey, about our completely public plans,
no secrets. We just trying to give modelers plenty of time to stock up on
any decals we make, that they might want to use in next 20 to 30 (or more)
years from now, and will handle just like new.

today, they were told there was no stock.

Thanks for the info, and I'll check on Black Cat.

Ron Hildebrand

At 02:00 AM 2/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
I dug out a couple of very old unbuilt Gould USRA tank cars
Can anyone guide me to some currently available decals correct for
these
cars? > Ron Hildebrand
Ron,
. American Car and foundry also had
these as SHPX shippers car line cars.


Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard,
Almost two years ago you were wrote that "Even as we write, however, I'm
working on data for a decal set that will letter the GATX versions of these
models, as well as
the Overland radial-course-tank models and some other General American
prototypes. "

My question is did you ever complete the decal set, and if so, how can I
obtain several sets? Thanks.
Larry Sexton
Easily answered, Larry. Yes, I finished compiling the data and the decal
set has been produced by Black Cat, aka Al Ferguson, in Canada. E-mail him
at <ajfergus@escape.ca>. I've already lettered two cars and I'm well
pleased with the results.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: How long did wood car siding last?

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Dean Payne asked:
How long did wood sides last on a box car or caboose?


We can use the USRA DS Boxcars (built 1918-1921) as a case study. Many
roads chose to resheath them to steel starting in 1936 through the late
1930s and early 1940s, with the KCS rebuilding their cars in 1949. Using
this data, we can see that the rebuilding programs took place at about 15-20
years into the life of the cars.


Ben Hom


Re: How accurate is this Rock Island kit?

Richard Hendrickson
 

Anybody know?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=484&item=3117420791

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
These were wood kits and relatively crude by current standards. Also, the
RI reefers were repossessed by General American in the early thirties and
thereafter operated as GARX cars, though with RI heralds, through the
1940s, so the decals probably are wrong for any era except the late 1920s.
The model was based on the photo and drawings in the 1931 CBCyc and
accurately represented that prototype, as far as it went.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: How long did wood car siding last?

thompson@...
 

How long did wood sides last on a box car or caboose?
Some of the SP wood cabooses kept their sheathing for 30 years or so
between rebuildings; and the rebuilding was mostly to correct the
structural wood parts, not the sheathing.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Big 4 USRA hopper - trucks?

thompson@...
 

Didn't I read somewhere that PRR got permission to use their own truck
preference instead?
All of the PRR's USRA cars I've seen rode on the standard Andrews trucks.
You're probably thinking of Pennsy building its own hopper design (H25)
in lieu of its USRA hopper allocation.
Thanks, David. That's probably it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: "Tank Cars from American Car & Foundry, 1865-1955"

thompson@...
 

When can we expect to get your new tank car book in
our hands? Or is Tony "Signature Press" Thompson
holding it hostage until we're absolutely on our
knees begging and pleading for it?
Now you're getting warm, Shawn. Just a bit more groveling and you'll be
there...
You wouldn't want us to sell a book before its time, would you?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: 10 foot box cars (was B&O M-72 Boxcar)

Don Udets
 

I think we briefly talked about it, but no one tried to compile a list of
all new steel 50 foot cars built with 10 foot interiors. I think such a list
would be pretty short! B&O, SOU, KCS (?), ... ok, that's it AFAIK. :o) <<

also Western Maryland 31001-31050 built Greenville 5/1949 with 15' double
doors, 9' 10" IH

Paul Lee


Re: decals for Gould/Tichy USRA 10k gal tank cars

Ron Hildebrand <SteamFreight@...>
 

Thanks to everyone who responded to my inquiry about the Gould phantom-tank car.

I've written Steve just now, and I'll look into matching my tanks to the Red Caboose body. BTW, when I was on the Plano site this past weekend, I noticed that they make walkways for the Red Caboose car. Has anyone used these? They almost look too fragile.

Ron Hildebrand

At 10:11 AM 2/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:

You might want to contact Steve Hile, who made excellent UTLX decals
a while ago for ICC-103 tank cars. Obviously they're not correct for
the Tichy tank car but I won't tell anyone -- and it builds up into
a beautiful model.

His old work email is "Hile, Stephen" <shile@casecorp.com>

Black Cat has CC&F and CNR decals for that car. McColl Frontenac will
be coming soon.
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts


How long did wood car siding last?

enobiko <deanpayne@att.net> <deanpayne@...>
 

How long did wood sides last on a box car or caboose? I know the all-
wood W&LE gons lasted an appallingly short time, but that makes
sense. Gons take a beating! I remember seeing one close up in
Chagrin Falls in the early 70's, bent all out of recognition. (I
wonder why noone makes a kit of a beat up gon? Resin? Fits the
small batch reqirement, but maybe brass is more appropriate. That's
the only justification for brass freight cars I can think of.)
Anyway, I remember the NKP 1000-series caboose at Bellevue, I wonder
how much of the body has been replaced over the century-plus? Sure,
the underframe is now steel, but is it possible it retains some
original wood? How about wood passenger cars? I rode on the East
Broad Top narrow guage in Pa. this last fall, and they have an old
coach that has an interior that looks original from God knows when.
My parents house is as old as I am, and retains the original
sheathing. Of course, it hasn't moved in the 45 years since...
unlike the rolling stock, rocking and flexing down the rails...
Dean


Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #8

Brian Rochon
 

My copy of RP CYC #8 arrived yesterday. As always, it is full of crisp black and white photos (plus a few color) and useful prototype information. Issue #8 includes 27 pages of Express Box Cars by Pat Wider, Part four of the series on 1935 A.A.R. 50-ton twin offset hoppers by Ed Hawkins (covering southeastern coal hauling roads) and a 31 page article by Ed Hawkins on 10 ft 0 in inside height postwar 40 ft 6 in A.A.R. box cars. Charles Roth also contributed an extensive article on Baldwin VO-1000 switchers. Definitely worth getting a copy.

Brian Rochon
Silver Spring, MD


Re: More on Car Parts

dixierails <dixierails@...>
 

John,
Two years ago you discussed building SAL high and low side gondolas. How did
the project turn out? I don't recall seeing any comments about SAL gons, and
I always wondered if you could locate enough deminsional data to create an
accurate model. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Larry Sexton

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Golden" <golden1014@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 11:50 AM
Subject: [STMFC] More on Car Parts



Dear Davis, Al, Byron, Warren, & All,

I had no idea my comments would bring so many responses! I hope they
originally helped the fellows who were talking about manufacturing car
parts...my intention was to help them, not steal any of their thunder!

In any event, you guys passed on a lot of helpful information. Believe
me, I don't take any of your criticisms the wrong way. Frankly, my
composite boxcar models include more than a few compromises. Yes, the T&G
siding is way too "spacey", doesn't include enough boards, and the outside
braces are too thick and incorrectly spaced. The car is off by a few feet
dimensionally. I originally wanted to scratchbuild the entire car side and
tried to build each individial component for weeks. I was living in Korea at
the time and had plenty of time in the evenings and on weekends to get the
job done. But I didn't have the right tools and therefore had to compromise
with the major components.

I originally wanted to cut up and reposition car parts from a few
Westerfield cars until I found that Funaro & Camerlengo made a 1923 ARA car
that closely resembles the SAL car. My ulimate compromise was to cut up
that car and rebuild it's basic components with other higher-quality parts.
Yeah, I'll take it for now...but down the road I fully expect to either try
again from scratch. OR...try talking to Al, Martin Lofton or Steve Funaro
again.

The "B-3 Rebuilds" turned out well...they are the models with the
steel-sheathed rebuilt sides. They were a simple scratch and I cast the
parts with Alumilite. The guys on the PM list took forty copies in a few
weeks.

Sorry to ramble on again, but you guys actually seem interested in this
stuff.

Byron, my next big project is SAL's high and low side gondolas. They are
practically the same car...they just have high or low sides. Think you guys
can help me get the rivet pattern right???

JG






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