Date   

Re: When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

Bruce Smith
 

Johannes,

A couple of pieces of advice. One, instead of us guessing your period, it might be helpful if you include that information in your post. I know you have previously, but some of us cannot remember what we had for lunch today ;)  Second, you are, of course, free to model what you want, and while many of us feel free to comment extensively here, I would never walk into your layout room and say “Johannes, that B&M car isn’t correct for your period!” but I’ll think it… and if you ask me what I think, I will tell you…  Now, if you feel a little being a bit of a trickster and harnessing your inner Loki, you can, as I do, include a few things that are NOT period correct and then ask viewers to spot the incorrect item (kind of a model railroad “which of these does not belong” game).

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 29, 2018, at 11:34 AM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:

Tim, Peter,
 
many thanks for your help. GREAT photos! Unfortunately 1955 is a little late for my projects, but that paint scheme is really nice and looks beautyful within a freight train of mostly brown or fcr cars. Hmmmm, to buy or not to buy - this is the question (again...).
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. November 2018 um 18:04 Uhr
Von: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

There is a photo of a freshly painted B&M 40' 1937 AAR box car in original
"minuteman" lettering with a shop stencil of 12-1955.

In June 1956 (perhaps earlier) the B&M was receiving blue & black 50 foot
PS-1 box cars from Pullman Standard. In 1957 they followed up with 40 foot
PS-1's with blue doors and a black right hand side panel.

Tim

 
Patrick B. McGinnis controlled the B&M about April 1955 and left the New Haven.  Herbert Matter designed both New Haven and B&M schemes. I do not know what B&M P&L drawings may say on dates for the box cars, but I believe the earliest the Blue and Black scheme could be in service is late 1955 to early 1956. NH P&L diagrams were still being developed for equipment through 1956.  Point being, just because there is new leadership doesn’t mean paint schemes are always the first thing to change…
 
Peter Ness




 
when did B&M start to paint box cars blue with black doors? I am interested in a 1937 AAR 40' box car in that paint but need to know the earliest date possible to use it.

Many thanks

Johannes

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] City of Vancouver Archives photos

Peter Ness
 

Eldon,

Yep...two different CofG boxcars in Vancouver! (granted, a year apart). That's a pretty long diagonal across a map of North America.

Peter Ness

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] City of Vancouver Archives photos

Peter;

I sure have. The one that gives me a big kick is the 3 different B&LE box cars Mr. Frost photographed. So much for statistics!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 1:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] City of Vancouver Archives photos

Maybe this is old news to many, but I stumbled across this site with more than 600 photos of freight cars most of which are within scope of this group. I think the photos are generally of very good quality.
link: Blockedhttps://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/railroads-cars

Peter Ness


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] City of Vancouver Archives photos

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Peter;

I sure have. The one that gives me a big kick is the 3 different B&LE box cars Mr. Frost photographed. So much for statistics!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 1:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] City of Vancouver Archives photos

Maybe this is old news to many, but I stumbled across this site with more than 600 photos of freight cars most of which are within scope of this group. I think the photos are generally of very good quality.
link: Blockedhttps://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/railroads-cars

Peter Ness


City of Vancouver Archives photos

Peter Ness
 

Maybe this is old news to many, but I stumbled across this site with more than 600 photos of freight cars most of which are within scope of this group.  I think the photos are generally of very good quality.
link: https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/railroads-cars

Peter Ness 


When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

Andy Carlson
 

One of the neat things about traveling is looking at the local railroads. In the late 1970s and onto the late 1990s, I made several trips to Mexico. One time I came into Benjamion Hill (Sonora dessert) and north of town was a long string of dozens of B+M 50' PS-1 boxcars in the topic's discussed colors of these box cars. I assumed that they were recent purchases. I did not take any pictures, as this was before free picture taking days which eventually made everything photographable. It would appear that most were not repainted on the B+M.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, November 29, 2018, 9:04:35 AM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

In June 1956 (perhaps earlier) the B&M was receiving blue & black 50 foot
PS-1 box cars from Pullman Standard.

Tim






Re: When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

Peter Ness
 

Johannes,

 

There are not a lot of colorful boxcar schemes prior to the mid-50’s, but BAR (red/white/blue) and B&O (Sentinel) were in service 1953 if that helps.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 12:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

 

Tim, Peter,

 

many thanks for your help. GREAT photos! Unfortunately 1955 is a little late for my projects, but that paint scheme is really nice and looks beautyful within a freight train of mostly brown or fcr cars. Hmmmm, to buy or not to buy - this is the question (again...).

 

Many greetings

 

Johannes

 

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. November 2018 um 18:04 Uhr
Von: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?


There is a photo of a freshly painted B&M 40' 1937 AAR box car in original
"minuteman" lettering with a shop stencil of 12-1955.

In June 1956 (perhaps earlier) the B&M was receiving blue & black 50 foot
PS-1 box cars from Pullman Standard. In 1957 they followed up with 40 foot
PS-1's with blue doors and a black right hand side panel.

Tim

 

Patrick B. McGinnis controlled the B&M about April 1955 and left the New Haven.  Herbert Matter designed both New Haven and B&M schemes. I do not know what B&M P&L drawings may say on dates for the box cars, but I believe the earliest the Blue and Black scheme could be in service is late 1955 to early 1956. NH P&L diagrams were still being developed for equipment through 1956.  Point being, just because there is new leadership doesn’t mean paint schemes are always the first thing to change…
 
Peter Ness





 

when did B&M start to paint box cars blue with black doors? I am interested in a 1937 AAR 40' box car in that paint but need to know the earliest date possible to use it.

Many thanks

Johannes


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PFE R-30-5-11 (??)

Jack Mullen
 

So let's talk about freight cars instead of CO2. Tim, just what strange details do you mean? To me the underframe looks pretty normal for PFE. The ends of the I-beam crossbearers may have a more angular cut than the usual graceful ogee, or that may be a trick of the light. The lighting does pick out the ends of the vertical tie rods of the wood-framed sides. It also highlights four hooks above each truck, which I think are provided to hang a Keeley can in the event of a hot journal.  Reasonably common in the '20s and '30s, but perhaps strange from a more modern POV. So what do you see?

Jack Mullen


Re: When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

Peter Ness
 

Good point, Tim. It would make sense to have the new P&Ls in place for the new cars. I suspect that as happened at the New Haven, since there were multiple diagrams its likely when the Minuteman scheme cars were shopped they were repainted in whichever diagram (or paint quantity) was on hand. I’m guessing the date is beyond the scope of this group, but the equipment would have been maintained in that scheme until the simplified all-blue with small B&M herald was applied.  I’m pretty sure that was post-1960 since McGinnis was still rousing rabble until after that time before being indicted and imprisoned…

 

Peter Ness

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

 


There is a photo of a freshly painted B&M 40' 1937 AAR box car in original
"minuteman" lettering with a shop stencil of 12-1955.

In June 1956 (perhaps earlier) the B&M was receiving blue & black 50 foot
PS-1 box cars from Pullman Standard. In 1957 they followed up with 40 foot
PS-1's with blue doors and a black right hand side panel.

Tim



Patrick B. McGinnis controlled the B&M about April 1955 and left the New Haven.  Herbert Matter designed both New Haven and B&M schemes. I do not know what B&M P&L drawings may say on dates for the box cars, but I believe the earliest the Blue and Black scheme could be in service is late 1955 to early 1956. NH P&L diagrams were still being developed for equipment through 1956.  Point being, just because there is new leadership doesn’t mean paint schemes are always the first thing to change…
 
Peter Ness







when did B&M start to paint box cars blue with black doors? I am interested in a 1937 AAR 40' box car in that paint but need to know the earliest date possible to use it.

Many thanks

Johannes


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

vapeurchapelon
 

Tim, Peter,
 
many thanks for your help. GREAT photos! Unfortunately 1955 is a little late for my projects, but that paint scheme is really nice and looks beautyful within a freight train of mostly brown or fcr cars. Hmmmm, to buy or not to buy - this is the question (again...).
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. November 2018 um 18:04 Uhr
Von: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

There is a photo of a freshly painted B&M 40' 1937 AAR box car in original
"minuteman" lettering with a shop stencil of 12-1955.

In June 1956 (perhaps earlier) the B&M was receiving blue & black 50 foot
PS-1 box cars from Pullman Standard. In 1957 they followed up with 40 foot
PS-1's with blue doors and a black right hand side panel.

Tim

 
Patrick B. McGinnis controlled the B&M about April 1955 and left the New Haven.  Herbert Matter designed both New Haven and B&M schemes. I do not know what B&M P&L drawings may say on dates for the box cars, but I believe the earliest the Blue and Black scheme could be in service is late 1955 to early 1956. NH P&L diagrams were still being developed for equipment through 1956.  Point being, just because there is new leadership doesn’t mean paint schemes are always the first thing to change…
 
Peter Ness




 
when did B&M start to paint box cars blue with black doors? I am interested in a 1937 AAR 40' box car in that paint but need to know the earliest date possible to use it.

Many thanks

Johannes

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

Tim O'Connor
 


There is a photo of a freshly painted B&M 40' 1937 AAR box car in original
"minuteman" lettering with a shop stencil of 12-1955.

In June 1956 (perhaps earlier) the B&M was receiving blue & black 50 foot
PS-1 box cars from Pullman Standard. In 1957 they followed up with 40 foot
PS-1's with blue doors and a black right hand side panel.

Tim


Patrick B. McGinnis controlled the B&M about April 1955 and left the New Haven.  Herbert Matter designed both New Haven and B&M schemes. I do not know what B&M P&L drawings may say on dates for the box cars, but I believe the earliest the Blue and Black scheme could be in service is late 1955 to early 1956. NH P&L diagrams were still being developed for equipment through 1956.  Point being, just because there is new leadership doesn’t mean paint schemes are always the first thing to change…
 
Peter Ness





when did B&M start to paint box cars blue with black doors? I am interested in a 1937 AAR 40' box car in that paint but need to know the earliest date possible to use it.

Many thanks

Johannes

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PFE R-30-5-11 (??)

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Both can be deadly for sure, but CO2 is not really poisonous … but it can displace air which contains the oxygen we need to breathe. CO, on the other hand, IS poisonous.

If you were unlucky enough to be trapped in a car full of the stuff, it might not make a lot of difference.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Nov 28, 2018, at 8:52 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Dry ice is just as poisonous - CO2 instead of CO, but they're both deadly.


On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 04:51 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:
Blame the B&W photo. Looks like PFE 7484.

Blame orthochromatic film, which turns orange and yellow almost the same gray tone as the black lettering. Meanwhile, the white in the herald practically jumps off the car.

Back to the placard, it likely says WARNING POISON FUMES, which means the car is in heater service.

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Large wheel made by Otis Iron & Steel Company

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Yes, and the photo included is a typicallarge Herringbone gear with matching pinion. However, the original picture of some large toothed wheel was NOT a Herringbone gear. The tooth shapes were all wrong. It was more like some huge tractor wheel with growsers, or maybe some crushing wheel from a mill.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Nov 28, 2018, at 6:23 PM, Mike Calo <michaelcalo3403@...> wrote:

Revisiting an old topic, since a picture came across my Pintrest feed today.  There are quite a few articles on herringbone gears on the web; just type "herringbone gear" in your search engine and prepare to read information  ranging from the basic (Wikipedia) to the brain-numbing technical (Carnegie - Mellion University). <Giant herringbone gears.jpg>


Re: When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

Peter Ness
 

Patrick B. McGinnis controlled the B&M about April 1955 and left the New Haven.  Herbert Matter designed both New Haven and B&M schemes. I do not know what B&M P&L drawings may say on dates for the box cars, but I believe the earliest the Blue and Black scheme could be in service is late 1955 to early 1956. NH P&L diagrams were still being developed for equipment through 1956.  Point being, just because there is new leadership doesn’t mean paint schemes are always the first thing to change…

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

 

Hello friends,

when did B&M start to paint box cars blue with black doors? I am interested in a 1937 AAR 40' box car in that paint but need to know the earliest date possible to use it.

Many thanks

Johannes


When did B&M start with blue/ black paint scheme?

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello friends,

when did B&M start to paint box cars blue with black doors? I am interested in a 1937 AAR 40' box car in that paint but need to know the earliest date possible to use it.

Many thanks

Johannes


Re: PFE R-40-24 REFER ARTICLE

brianleppert@att.net
 

Bill, 

What you might be looking for is entitled "Kitbashing White Elephants" by G.J. Michels, Jr. in the April 1996 RMC.  It covers InterMountain reefer kits and PFE 45698 and 44739 aluminum reefers.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Reefers for frozen fish. (GN express Reefer)

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Everything points to the car being repainted and serviced in July 1951.  (There is another date in the upper left hand corner of the side, where painting dates are often stenciled.)  Someone forgot the built date stencil and the car was still pretty fresh when Otto Perry photographed it in Denver the same month.
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 8:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reefers for frozen fish. (GN express Reefer)

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 05:39 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:
After blowing up the images I found the built date and the builder stenciled on the air reservoir [see attached].
Not quite. The date stenciled on the air brake reservoir is the date of last periodic air brake servicing (which would become Clean, Oil, Test, & Stencil at some point in the future). PLT is Plattsmouth, Nebraska, where the BREX fleet was maintained; likely other cars in the FGEX family also. The simply is no built date stenciled on this side of the car for whatever reason.

Dennis Storzek


Re: PFE R-40-24 REFER ARTICLE

Allan Smith
 

The February 1987 RMC has an article by Thompson & Hendrickson named PFE Ice Reefers Steel Cars
 Pages 86 thru 95 There is a photo of 44739 on page 88

Al Smith 
Sonora CA

On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎November‎ ‎28‎, ‎2018‎ ‎05‎:‎11‎:‎46‎ ‎PM‎ ‎PST, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:



Thanks again to those who responded to my question on the PFE R-30-4 article in the Railroad Model Craftsman from the 1980's.  I have one more question Concerning an article from the same time frame on modeling the PFE R-40-14 aluminium cars #
45698 and 44749.  Thanks again for your help.

Bill Pardie
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Re: Reefers for frozen fish. (GN express Reefer)

Bruce Smith
 

Brian,

That's the reweigh date, and of corse the brakes and brake reservoir was checked and the bearings repacked at the same time.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn,​ AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 6:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reefers for frozen fish. (GN express Reefer)
 
7-51 isn’t it?

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Nov 28, 2018, at 3:55 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Tim,

No BUILT date stencil on that car! Weird.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 28, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Bob

the quest for your photo led me to this one... :-)

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55050&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=3598&DMHEIGHT=2071


I found this photo from an unknown source, showing a GN express reefer apparently being used to ship fish.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Attachments: R eefer_Fish_Unknown.jpg

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Reefers for frozen fish. (GN express Reefer)

Walter
 

Looks like PLT - - BREX
PLT could be the BRE’s Plattsmouth, NE shops.

Lenny Ohrnell


Re: Reefers for frozen fish. (GN express Reefer)

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 05:39 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:
After blowing up the images I found the built date and the builder stenciled on the air reservoir [see attached].
Not quite. The date stenciled on the air brake reservoir is the date of last periodic air brake servicing (which would become Clean, Oil, Test, & Stencil at some point in the future). PLT is Plattsmouth, Nebraska, where the BREX fleet was maintained; likely other cars in the FGEX family also. The simply is no built date stenciled on this side of the car for whatever reason.

Dennis Storzek

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