Date   
Re: Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia Reprints

Bill Welch
 

I suggest purchasing the publication rights from Ed and Pat so the purchaser can enjoy depositing checks, packaging, going to post office, collecting on bills, and all of the other things Pat and Ed consciously retried from when they ended their business.

Bill Welch

Freight Car Clinics at Prototype Rails 2019 in Cocoa Beach, FL

Aley, Jeff A
 

Hi Folks,

 

               We have the following Freight Car – related clinics scheduled for PR’19 in Cocoa Beach FL (Jan 10-12, 2019).  More info can be found at http://prototyperails.com/  (be sure to click on the link for Clinic Descriptions).

 

Al Brown: Three Semi-Scratchbuilt Freight Cars

Ted Culotta: Finding Kitbashing Opportunities in Freight Cars

Chuck Davis: Modeling LV’s First Steel Auto/Box Cars

George Eichelberger: Early Intermodal on the Southern

Steve Hile: Warren Petroleum Tank Cars

Roger Hinman: NYC Steel Freight Cars Part V: Covered Hoppers

Greg Martin: Weathering Freight Cars My Way

Jim Panza: The G85 Flat Car – Proto and Walthers Model [beyond the era of STMFC].

Bruce Smith: The Other PRR Boxcar Everyone Needs: The X31

Mont Switzer: Three Unusual Monon Boxcars from 1958

Fenton Wells, et al.: Shake-N-Take – Southern 40’ Auto Boxcar

Craig Zeni: Building Resin Freight Cars for Beginners

 

We hope to see you there!

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff Aley

Clinic Chairman, PR’19

 

Re: St. Charles Car Company construction records

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

From my fellow BRHS researchers I am reminded that there is actually a picture on the St. Charles MO Library site of the ACF builders photo of one of the Pacific Short Line cabooses.

I had forgotten that that was the source of the as-built image of the car (which later was rebuilt into a more Q-ish style but still unique).  

Sorry for the unnecessary request.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 3:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] St. Charles Car Company construction records

 

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:10 AM, Charlie Vlk wrote:

You might know this already, but the St. Charles Car Company got merged into the ACF, who's historic records are mostly held at the Barriger Lib (UMSL).  The old lot list get sketchy as you get pre ACF.  Some are better than others.  Apparently there are some images and papers held at the St Charles Library but I've never dug into them.  https://www.youranswerplace.org/st-charles-car-company

 

 

 

 

Re: Tank car volume change

Tim O'Connor
 


In my opinion there can't possibly be a "general rule" here - It's entirely up to
the rebuilder of the car, and the purpose (service) of the rebuilt car.

Tim O'Connor



Richard,

An interesting question, and certainly and obscure area of study.

So let me give you a case to chew on. The WP owned 60 AC&F high-walkway oil tanks of 10,000 gallon capacity, with a 40 gallon expansion dome in series 1020-1080: https://www.wplives.com/diagrams/freight/1930/TC1021-1080.php .

At some point in the early 1950s, 1058 was rebuilt as a tender 8004 for pile driver/crane 90 (curiously, a diesel machine as a crane, but equipped with a steam generator for pile driving duties). Unfortunately I can't send you to link for 8004, as it is not on the WPHS site, but I do have a diagram in a book from which I can quote, and my photo is attached.

As 8004, the car had an oil tank with a capacity of 2798 gallons, and a water tank holding 7016 gallons. This totals 9,814 gallons for a loss of 186 gallons. According to the diagram, the tanks each had a curved end of their own similar to the visible ends hidden under the shell, rather than a single straight bulkhead. The original domes were replaced with others 36" in diameter. No dome capacity is given, but I don't think this matters since it was expansion space, not tank capacity.

Have fun wrestling with the data.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff ðŸ�´ó �§ó �¢ó �³ó �£ó �´ó �¿

On 12/7/18 2:01 AM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io wrote:
If a 10K single compartment gallon tank car were converted to two compartments, how much volume would it lose? Is ten percent a reasonable estimate?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


_._,_._,_

Attachments:

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Accurail Nickel Plate Rebuilt Hopper Kitbash

Ray Breyer
 

>>For the cars rebuilt 1949 what where the numbers? Anyone have pictures of those car specifically. 
>>Thanks
>>Mark



Hi Mark, 

The NKP didn't keep track of them that way. The paperwork available only states:
140 cars rebuilt in 1949, 140 cars in 1950, 250 cars in 1951, 240 cars in 1952, 161 cars in 1953, and 80 cars in 1954 (which adds up to 1,011 cars, not an even 1000. Not bad considering there were only 836 cars left on the roster in 1947).

So pick a number, any number. All of my photos of these cars have reweigh dates after 1951, so I doubt anyone can prove whatever numbers you pick will be wrong!

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

Re: Accurail Nickel Plate Rebuilt Hopper Kitbash

Mark Stamm
 

For the cars rebuilt 1949 what where the numbers? Anyone have pictures of those car specifically. 

Thanks
Mark

Re: Tank car volume change

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Richard,

I just looked at another view of this car in my collection, and water capacity is given as 6,960 gallons. Why the difference I don't know, but I throws the figures I gave you into chaos. 😆

Yours Aye,


Garth  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 12/7/18 2:01 AM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io wrote:
If a 10K single compartment gallon tank car were converted to two compartments, how much volume would it lose? Is ten percent a reasonable estimate?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


_._,_._,_

Re: Tank car volume change

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Richard,

An interesting question, and certainly and obscure area of study.

So let me give you a case to chew on. The WP owned 60 AC&F high-walkway oil tanks of 10,000 gallon capacity, with a 40 gallon expansion dome in series 1020-1080: https://www.wplives.com/diagrams/freight/1930/TC1021-1080.php .

At some point in the early 1950s, 1058 was rebuilt as a tender 8004 for pile driver/crane 90 (curiously, a diesel machine as a crane, but equipped with a steam generator for pile driving duties). Unfortunately I can't send you to link for 8004, as it is not on the WPHS site, but I do have a diagram in a book from which I can quote, and my photo is attached.

As 8004, the car had an oil tank with a capacity of 2798 gallons, and a water tank holding 7016 gallons. This totals 9,814 gallons for a loss of 186 gallons. According to the diagram, the tanks each had a curved end of their own similar to the visible ends hidden under the shell, rather than a single straight bulkhead. The original domes were replaced with others 36" in diameter. No dome capacity is given, but I don't think this matters since it was expansion space, not tank capacity.

Have fun wrestling with the data.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 12/7/18 2:01 AM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io wrote:
If a 10K single compartment gallon tank car were converted to two compartments, how much volume would it lose? Is ten percent a reasonable estimate?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


_._,_._,_

Tank car volume change

Richard Townsend
 

If a 10K single compartment gallon tank car were converted to two compartments, how much volume would it lose? Is ten percent a reasonable estimate?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


_._,_._,_

Re: B&O N-25b rebuild (was Photo: UTLX 81014)

Bruce Griffin
 

Tim and Bob,

Thank you for the insights and photo. It looks like new slope and end sheets were installed as evidenced by the rivet line just outboard of the roof hatches. Anyone built one of these?  The spilled lading on the roof looks like sand, any thoughts? 

Best Regards,
Bruce Griffin
Ashland, MD 

Re: Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia Reprints

np328
 

Only my opinion here, 
      however if anything regarding reprints or scans get done, Ed Hawkins and Pat Wilder would be the ones to occupy the drivers seat of such as THEY were the researchers/editors/drivers of the original. It's up to them.

      And I state this as a person who has had to scramble at times to get some copies of the earlier editions I had at the time, dismissed. The two gentleman named prior always put out advance notice of the contents of these publications and I learnt first hand rather quickly that if I was the least bit intrigued, to act quickly.                                                                                                                        Jim Dick - St. Paul 
   
      
 

Re: Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia Reprints

Tim O'Connor
 


Any PDF document can be printed by commercial services that are online. You can
get hardcover, or perfect bound, books done. It's very reasonably priced!

The solution, I think, is for Ed and Pat to set up something like Ian Cranstone has
done with the tank car Tariff books. That way the prices will settle down to match
the "replacement cost" of the custom prints. Ed & Pat will continue to get a share
of the new prints, and the books will never be "out of print".

My tariff book is huge (758 pages), and it is hardcover - at $48 well worth it.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/ian-cranstone/tank-car-capacities-1970/hardcover/product-23299194.html

Tim O'Connor

=============================

 I bought one of the reprints of #20 recently . With the price of what people are paying
 on ebay for #21-24 there is definitely a market. Anyone on here have any pull to get that done?
 $143 for #23
 $128 for #24
 Crazy!
 Matt Smith

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia Reprints

Matt Smith
 

I bought one of the reprints of #20 recently . With the price of what people are paying on ebay for #21-24 there is definitely a market. Anyone on here have any pull to get that done?

$143 for #23
$128 for #24

Crazy!
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Re: [ResinFreightCarBuilders] RI Hopper decals

frograbbit602
 

Steve, “Thank You” for the information and equipment diagram in your post.
Lester Breuer

Metal shield PFE reefers

Andy Carlson
 

I have a local friend who sold his UP metal shield 4-5 years ago for good money. It was porcelain and heavily chipped, but still received top dollar. The amount is lost to my memory. He told me that it was from a wooden reefer. It was also in RW&B/.
-Andy Carlson

On Thursday, December 6, 2018, 11:42:18 AM PST, Robert Heninger <gn2059@...> wrote:


I'm not sure how widely they were applied, Tim, but I believe that they fell into disfavor because they had a habit of working loose and falling off the cars, thus endangering any traincrew or other bystanders. I believe the remaining medallions, as PFE referred to them, were victims of the WWII scrap drives, as were many other wonderful old pieces of equipment.

A surviving UP shield, WP feather, or SP "sunset" medallion would be a neat piece of railroadania to own.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Re: medallions (was PFE reefers)

Tim O'Connor
 


It's interesting that metal medallions and name plates seem to wax and wane, even though time has
proven that they're really not a very good idea! :-)

Long after the STMFC era, and shortly before going out of business, the Milwaukee Road reconditioned
some fairly modern box cars in the late 1970's and applied emblem plates to the exterior posts, where there
had been none originally! Go figure. :-D

Tim O'Connor



AFAIK, the WP only applied enameled medallions to their 50' single-sheathed boxcars, wooden cabooses, and some cranes and plows. Just about all their other freight equipment had painted heralds. Medallions were applied to steam locomotive tenders, and cabs on most diesels bought before the Perlman green era (some late diesels appeared to have had vinyl stickers). I suspect that many diesel medallions went home with employees, possibly with permission. Altogether, there were probably about 800 pieces of equipment that carried the metal medallions, so yes, they are rare, but do turn up on the used market at high prices.

WP medallions appear to have come in several sizes, and in at least two types: round corners or square.

Yours Aye,
Garth Groff

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: PFE reefers

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bob,

AFAIK, the WP only applied enameled medallions to their 50' single-sheathed boxcars, wooden cabooses, and some cranes and plows. Just about all their other freight equipment had painted heralds. Medallions were applied to steam locomotive tenders, and cabs on most diesels bought before the Perlman green era (some late diesels appeared to have had vinyl stickers). I suspect that many diesel medallions went home with employees, possibly with permission. Altogether, there were probably about 800 pieces of equipment that carried the metal medallions, so yes, they are rare, but do turn up on the used market at high prices.

WP medallions appear to have come in several sizes, and in at least two types: round corners or square.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 12/6/18 2:42 PM, Robert Heninger wrote:

I'm not sure how widely they were applied, Tim, but I believe that they fell into disfavor because they had a habit of working loose and falling off the cars, thus endangering any traincrew or other bystanders. I believe the remaining medallions, as PFE referred to them, were victims of the WWII scrap drives, as were many other wonderful old pieces of equipment.

A surviving UP shield, WP feather, or SP "sunset" medallion would be a neat piece of railroadania to own.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: PFE reefers

Robert Heninger
 

Interesting, I just checked my email and I received a digest that contains the original message from Paul, with subsequent reply from Tony and Tim,  but I can't see it on the Groups.io site as I type this reply. Tony, of course, had already correctly answered the question before I waded into the fray with my half-cocked answer. In my defense, I purchased the PFE book in early January 2000, and promptly read it cover to cover, but not since. I was in the ballpark, but unfortunately got thrown out at first. My memory isn't what it used to be, I guess.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

Re: PFE reefers

Tony Thompson
 

I'm not sure how widely they were applied, Tim, but I believe that they fell into disfavor because they had a habit of working loose and falling off the cars, thus endangering any traincrew or other bystanders. I believe the remaining medallions, as PFE referred to them, were victims of the WWII scrap drives, as were many other wonderful old pieces of equipment.

    Actually, they  began to be removed in a specific program directed at removal, included in the monthly PFE shop reports (now at CSRM). This began in 1937, and each month the shops all reported how many medallions had been removed. I think practically all of them were gone before the war and its scrap drives.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: PFE reefers

Robert Heninger
 

I'm not sure how widely they were applied, Tim, but I believe that they fell into disfavor because they had a habit of working loose and falling off the cars, thus endangering any traincrew or other bystanders. I believe the remaining medallions, as PFE referred to them, were victims of the WWII scrap drives, as were many other wonderful old pieces of equipment.

A surviving UP shield, WP feather, or SP "sunset" medallion would be a neat piece of railroadania to own.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND