Date   
Questions on PFE Reefers 1954-1958

John Sykes III
 

Help!!!

I’m working on a roster of PFE reefers covering the 1954 – 1958 time frame and ran into some problems.  I have a Jan ’54 & Apr ’58 ORER, Tony’s (et al) PFE, John White’s Great Yellow Fleet and Al’s notes included with some of the old Westerfield models.  Here are the issues:

 

1)    The ’54 ORER lists a #296522 car which seems to match R-30-xx specifications, but I cannot find any additional references to it (it is noted as being equipped with ½ stage icing in the ORER notes).  It is not listed in the ’58 ORER.  Any further information? 

2)      The ’58 ORER lists a number of cars in the 201xxx series (that are not in the ’54 ORER) as follows: 

a.       201051 – One only.  Seems to match R-50-x in dimensions w/folding ice bunkers in notes, but I can find no other information.

b.      201401 – 201475 – 71 cars.  Seems to match R-50-x in dimensions, but no other information.

c.       201476 – 201500 – 25 cars.  Same as the 201051, i.e., seems to match R-50-x in dimensions w/folding ice bunkers in notes, but I can find no other information. 

Can Tony or anyone else here provide more information on these cars?

 

Thanks!
 

-- John

Re: More Barriger Pics:

Brian Carlson
 

We’ve talked about these pics before. They were in Ashtabula. If you scroll back three or four slides the station is shown. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Dec 22, 2018, at 9:55 PM, Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io <sullivant41@...> wrote:

David Thompson wrote:

Not on the Clinchfield, despite the weather:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12226873846/
This photo must be in Buffalo, NY, given the NYC diesels, Buffalo Creek boxcar and Pittsburg & Shawmut hopper.  The Lackawanna Iron & Steel Company, later owned by Bethlehem Steel, had a huge mill complex in the Buffalo suburb of Lackawanna, and these loads of coal are most likely headed there.  The steel mill was the largest mill in the world during the 1940s.  Wikipedia has an interesting write-up on the history of the company, which started in Scranton PA.


Interesting detail shots

 

Hello group,

A couple of interior shots of auto frame setup in a gondola from the Barriger collection.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12230088815/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12230089715/in/photostream/

Hope some find these useful.

Dan Smith

Re: More Barriger Pics:

Todd Sullivan
 

David Thompson wrote:

Not on the Clinchfield, despite the weather:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12226873846/
This photo must be in Buffalo, NY, given the NYC diesels, Buffalo Creek boxcar and Pittsburg & Shawmut hopper.  The Lackawanna Iron & Steel Company, later owned by Bethlehem Steel, had a huge mill complex in the Buffalo suburb of Lackawanna, and these loads of coal are most likely headed there.  The steel mill was the largest mill in the world during the 1940s.  Wikipedia has an interesting write-up on the history of the company, which started in Scranton PA.

All that salt can't be good for longevity:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12226252334/
I think the white stuff is more likely limestone for steel-making.  Ashtabula was the New York Central's port on on Lake Erie for the transshipment of steel making materials.  Also, I've viewed several large salt mine operations in Upstate New York, and the raw salt storage piles are normally not as white as these piles.

Todd Sullivan.

Re: A Long Ways From Home: L&N Gondola 74038

Tony Thompson
 

Todd Sullivan wrote:

It's interesting that, in the photo next to this one, there are two of these L&N gondolas.  Apparently the F-M scale works liked the coal from one of the mines served by the L&N.


   Or they liked the price or service they got from a coal broker, who happened to be linked to a mine on L&N rails . . .
    That's how most customers acquired coal, not directly from mines.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: A Long Ways From Home: L&N Gondola 74038

Todd Sullivan
 

Bob,

It's interesting that, in the photo next to this one, there are two of these L&N gondolas.  Apparently the F-M scale works liked the coal from one of the mines served by the L&N.


Todd Sullivan.

Re: More Barriger Pics:

mikefrommontanan
 

Guessing all that "salt" is crushed limestone for steel making. Noticing the Hulett unloaders in the background.

Michael Seitz

Missoula MT


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Re: WM 4201 -4450

StephenK
 

Notice also that the re-stenciled data is in several different sizes as well.   This is the kind of thing that, reproduced accurately, makes one look like a sloppy modeler!

Steve Kay

Re: WM 4201 -4450

mopacfirst
 

The door is problematic too, since it appears to be an early Youngstown style.  I don't offhand know of a source for this door in 8' width.  But the underframe is a perfect Branchline design.  Perhaps the relatively heavy crossbearers near the edges of the door opening may have contributed to the similarity.

And I second the desire for a welded side model, five-panel or six-panel.

Ron Merrick

Re: More Barriger Pics:

Bill Welch
 

Thank you David for these links. Your "Old and not-so-old" is the reason I enjoy transition era modeling.

Bill Welch

Re: A Long Ways From Home: L&N Gondola 74038

Bill Welch
 

Nice find Bob, this is a USRA composite gon, of which the L&N had 1,000 and also 1,000 copies w/o the diagonal straps on the two end panels and cast sideframe trucks. The L&N car kept the composite construction for a long time. The end we see is a replacement as they were built with a Murphy end. They carried other things besides coal. Attached is my attempt at modeling one of the originals replacing the wood parts w/styrene.

Bill Welch

If you are bringing your wife or significant other to CCB Prototype Rails 2019

np328
 

      For those of you who coming to CCB and are accompanied by your wife or significant other, my wife Vita who many of you have met over the years is going to make a day trip to Winter Park and the Charles Hosmer Morse Museum on either Friday or Saturday. She did this last year and I know that because of the poor weather some missed out. Those who did go had fun, much fun. I have been to the Morse Museum several times and always enjoy the time spent there. http://www.morsemuseum.org/
     To those unaware, the Morse Museum houses the world’s most comprehensive collection of works by Louis Comfort Tiffany, with the artist and designer’s jewelry, pottery,
paintings, art glass, leaded-glass lamps and windows. Some of the finest Tiffany glass I have had the pleasure to see.

And that Charles H Morse is the Morse of the Fairbanks-Morse locomotive Company, whose locomotives pulled legions of the cars we study here.  
     Winter Park itself northeast of Orlando has a great little downtown area where one can find some nice little restaurants, and sit outside enjoying breakfast, lunch, or dinner
while across the city park, watch CSX trains pass, and the Amtrak, and SunRail trains stop enroute at the Winter Park station. I’ve enjoyed meals more than once in that manner.
     Contact me off line and I will pass along my Vita’s e-mail for your wife or friend.  
Again to reply off line press [Reply], then on the right side, choose the [Private] box.     
                                                                                                                                                thanks,               Jim Dick – Roseville, MN

Re: A Long Ways From Home: L&N Gondola 74038

Tim O'Connor
 


After a little photo editing magic... Judging from the other photos in that roll I'm guessing this picture
is sometime around 1950??

Tim O'Connor


On 12/21/2018 7:13 PM, Bob Chaparro wrote:

This photo (unfortunately printed backwards) is from the Barriger Library collection:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12230516134/

It shows L&N Gondola 74038 at the Fairbanks, Morse & Company pump works in Pomona, CA.

I could imagine a scenario where coal was used by the pump works. Or maybe not. But in any case, this gondola is a long ways from home.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

More Barriger Pics:

David
 

A Long Ways From Home: L&N Gondola 74038

Bob Chaparro
 

This photo (unfortunately printed backwards) is from the Barriger Library collection:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12230516134/

It shows L&N Gondola 74038 at the Fairbanks, Morse & Company pump works in Pomona, CA.

I could imagine a scenario where coal was used by the pump works. Or maybe not. But in any case, this gondola is a long ways from home.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: The curious case of NP box car colors in the 50's

Richard Townsend
 

Remember those articles in Mainline Modeler about theatrical lighting? Clark Dunham as I recall was the author. He did moonlight.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mikebrock <brockm@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 21, 2018 3:50 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] The curious case of NP box car colors in the 50's

Andy,

I actually thought of moon light. Wonder if cool white florescent would  duplicate moon light?
The point being that the paint/colors we are discussing should be subject to film and lighting [ of the prototype ] characteristics and those of a model. Unless, of course, one is trying to paint a real subject [ like a NP box car ].
 
Mike Brock
 
 
Mike
 
Moonlight
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
 
On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 2:56:08 PM PST, Mikebrock <brockm@...> wrote:
 
 
 
Andy Carlson writes:
 
BTW, I guess that these would even be suitable colors for the NP passenger greens of the late 1950s.
 
Under what lighting? Bright sunlight, bright sunlight at 5PM, cloudy sunlight, florescent daylight, florescent warm white, incandescent, LED, etc.?
Mike Brock

 
 

Re: The curious case of NP box car colors in the 50's

Mikebrock
 

Andy,

I actually thought of moon light. Wonder if cool white florescent would  duplicate moon light?

The point being that the paint/colors we are discussing should be subject to film and lighting [ of the prototype ] characteristics and those of a model. Unless, of course, one is trying to paint a real subject [ like a NP box car ].

 

Mike Brock

 

 

Mike

 

Moonlight

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 2:56:08 PM PST, Mikebrock <brockm@...> wrote:

 

 

 

Andy Carlson writes:

 

BTW, I guess that these would even be suitable colors for the NP passenger greens of the late 1950s.

 

Under what lighting? Bright sunlight, bright sunlight at 5PM, cloudy sunlight, florescent daylight, florescent warm white, incandescent, LED, etc.?

Mike Brock

 

 

Re: WM 4201 -4450

Bill Keene
 

Bill, Brian, Tim, Steve,

Thank you all for your kind and educational suggestions on how to model one of these WM box cars. Most helpful indeed. Now it is the time to put this learning into motion and progress as there is not a single WM box car in the layout fleet.

Thanks & Cheers, 
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Dec 21, 2018, at 2:37 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Archer does offer "Weld Lines" but they are intended for armor modelers. For boxcars I recommend their "Aircraft Panel" line decals. Here are two examples. The Georgia roof is primed.

Bill Welch <Monon _37 left end area details.JPG><_4 Georgia USRA steel rebuild Archer Panel Lines for welded roof.JPG>

Re: WM 4201 -4450

Bill Welch
 

Archer does offer "Weld Lines" but they are intended for armor modelers. For boxcars I recommend their "Aircraft Panel" line decals. Here are two examples. The Georgia roof is primed.

Bill Welch

Re: WM 4201 -4450

steve_wintner
 

Archer offers decal "weld lines", which I've not seen in person, but might work well for precisely this sort of build.

Steve