From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 12:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tank (And Other) Cars

This is a photo link from the UCLA Library archives:

https://dl.library.ucla.edu/islandora/object/laviews%3A431

The image in the upper right-hand corner is of a freight yard (Someone know which one?) in Los Angeles in 1914.

Click on the image to enlarge it.

There are two interesting (to me, at least) tank cars in the foreground along with many other freight cars. A little work in Photoshop should bring out more details.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Garth and all,

The Equipment Diagram for the WP gon appears to be consistent with the side castings of the ECW #  3010 kit, and the general A.A.R design. The problem with the kit otherwise is that there are 2 frets of cast parts needed to construct the body of the model. One fret includes the sides and center sill, the other has the rest of the parts, i.e. end castings, end doors, floor, and other details. The 2nd fret's parts seem to be consistent with the PRR G26/ G26a version ( a kit I don't have). For instance, the end frame castings have several "fins" as part of the casting: 3 horizontal on each side of the end doors, and 3 vertical ones on the end beam, located either side of the coupler pocket. These are obvious on the PRR cars but I've seen no photos of A.A.R.-designed cars with these fins.

The PRR cars have a different side stake arrangement, and were home built, while the A.A.R. designed cars were built by Greenville, Bethlehem, Pullman-Standard, and possibly others.

There were several other designs of 65' mill gons as well.    

While I'm still researching the A.A.R. design, another point seems to be that the PRR cars may be narrower- I.W.- than the A.A.R. design.

Within the next week or so, as time permits, I'll provide a more comprehensive report of my research on these cars.

   

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On January 25, 2019 at 3:00 AM Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Ed and Ron,

WP series 9001-9050 had 20 panels, five panels on the slope and all ribs extending to the sill. These were 1949 Greenville cars. Does this match up (I don't have one of the ECW kits to compare)? General arrangement drawings can be viewed at https://www.wplives.com/diagrams/freight/1958/G9001-9050.php . Photos are found in Jim Eager's book WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 2001). Some of these cars were fitted up with temporary coil racks only over the trucks and used between USS plants at Geneva, Utah and Pittsburg (no "h"), California, over the D&RGW/WP/SN until more appropriate cars could be purchased for coil service.

E&B Valley offered a WP-lettered car, but it was actually the PRR design. I stripped mine and lettered it properly for the PRR.

The D&RGW also had similar cars built in 1948 by Pressed Steel. These were 30050-30999 (2nd series of those numbers, the orginals having been transferred to the Alaska Railroad in 1947). See Jim Eager's RIO GRANDE COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 1996).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On January 25, 2019 at 4:31 AM "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

Garth and all,

The Equipment Diagram for the WP gon appears to be consistent with the side castings of the ECW #  3010 kit, and the general A.A.R design. The problem with the kit otherwise is that there are 2 frets of cast parts needed to construct the body of the model. One fret includes the sides and center sill, the other has the rest of the parts, i.e. end castings, end doors, floor, and other details. The 2nd fret's parts seem to be consistent with the PRR G26/ G26a version ( a kit I don't have). For instance, the end frame castings have several "fins" as part of the casting: 3 horizontal on each side of the end doors, and 3 vertical ones on the end beam, located either side of the coupler pocket. These are obvious on the PRR cars but I've seen no photos of A.A.R.-designed cars with these fins.

The PRR cars have a different side stake arrangement, and were home built, while the A.A.R. designed cars were built by Greenville, Bethlehem, Pullman-Standard, and possibly others.

There were several other designs of 65' mill gons as well.    

While I'm still researching the A.A.R. design, another point seems to be that the PRR cars may be narrower- I.W.- than the A.A.R. design.

Within the next week or so, as time permits, I'll provide a more comprehensive report of my research on these cars.

   

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On January 25, 2019 at 3:00 AM Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Ed and Ron,

WP series 9001-9050 had 20 panels, five panels on the slope and all ribs extending to the sill. These were 1949 Greenville cars. Does this match up (I don't have one of the ECW kits to compare)? General arrangement drawings can be viewed at https://www.wplives.com/diagrams/freight/1958/G9001-9050.php . Photos are found in Jim Eager's book WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 2001). Some of these cars were fitted up with temporary coil racks only over the trucks and used between USS plants at Geneva, Utah and Pittsburg (no "h"), California, over the D&RGW/WP/SN until more appropriate cars could be purchased for coil service.

E&B Valley offered a WP-lettered car, but it was actually the PRR design. I stripped mine and lettered it properly for the PRR.

The D&RGW also had similar cars built in 1948 by Pressed Steel. These were 30050-30999 (2nd series of those numbers, the orginals having been transferred to the Alaska Railroad in 1947). See Jim Eager's RIO GRANDE COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 1996).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 1/24/19 10:29 PM, mopacfirst wrote:

I am curious if there is any prototype for the 3010 kit.  None of the gons discussed earlier in this topic appear to match.
So.
Does anyone know such a prototype?  So far, I haven't found a match.

Edward Sutorik


That's exactly what I've been chasing.  One issue I see is the jacking pads, which other builders of this model have talked about removing.  Those appear on the NYC 623-G lot, which is a fairly different car, but I have not seen any on any other pictures of 20-panel 65' gons where the slope spans five panels.  The ECW model also has little molded parts (parts 15 and 16 on the instruction sheet) which represent the right and left end 'ladders' or grab irons mounted on an angle iron of some sort similar to the way a ladder would be built.  To me, that's one positive thing that distinguishes this model from the Athearn, which is much more available and much less work.  There are some prototypes that have separate grabs on the right end of the side, the SP G-70-2, 9 and 14 among them, so leaving off those parts and adding wire grabs would be easier than carving some off.

There are quite a number of other cars that have deep fishbelly sides but four or 2-1/2 panels on the slope, and quite a number of cars that have a shallower fishbelly and two panels on the slope, including unfortunately the MP prototypes which are the most interest to me.  I may look for other riveted side gons that could be sacrificed to allow splicing sides together, but the panel spacing might be an issue.  One never knows, if there is enough time and patience.

The Seaboard and Illinois Terminal cars shown in the Hendrickson article reference above have the same panel configuration as the model along with grab irons rather than the 'ladder', like the SP cars.  The L&N, Rock Island and Frisco cars shown, and some of the Southern, are also slightly off, having four panels on the slope.  I'm not concerned with top chord reinforcements, since those are easily added.

I'd do an ITC if I could figure out the decals, or an SP.  These cars could use the dimensional data in the Speedwitch set.

Ron Merrick

 

 

On January 25, 2019 at 3:00 AM Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Ed and Ron,

WP series 9001-9050 had 20 panels, five panels on the slope and all ribs extending to the sill. These were 1949 Greenville cars. Does this match up (I don't have one of the ECW kits to compare)? General arrangement drawings can be viewed at https://www.wplives.com/diagrams/freight/1958/G9001-9050.php . Photos are found in Jim Eager's book WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 2001). Some of these cars were fitted up with temporary coil racks only over the trucks and used between USS plants at Geneva, Utah and Pittsburg (no "h"), California, over the D&RGW/WP/SN until more appropriate cars could be purchased for coil service.

E&B Valley offered a WP-lettered car, but it was actually the PRR design. I stripped mine and lettered it properly for the PRR.

The D&RGW also had similar cars built in 1948 by Pressed Steel. These were 30050-30999 (2nd series of those numbers, the orginals having been transferred to the Alaska Railroad in 1947). See Jim Eager's RIO GRANDE COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 1996).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 1/24/19 10:29 PM, mopacfirst wrote:

I am curious if there is any prototype for the 3010 kit.  None of the gons discussed earlier in this topic appear to match.
So.
Does anyone know such a prototype?  So far, I haven't found a match.

Edward Sutorik


That's exactly what I've been chasing.  One issue I see is the jacking pads, which other builders of this model have talked about removing.  Those appear on the NYC 623-G lot, which is a fairly different car, but I have not seen any on any other pictures of 20-panel 65' gons where the slope spans five panels.  The ECW model also has little molded parts (parts 15 and 16 on the instruction sheet) which represent the right and left end 'ladders' or grab irons mounted on an angle iron of some sort similar to the way a ladder would be built.  To me, that's one positive thing that distinguishes this model from the Athearn, which is much more available and much less work.  There are some prototypes that have separate grabs on the right end of the side, the SP G-70-2, 9 and 14 among them, so leaving off those parts and adding wire grabs would be easier than carving some off.

There are quite a number of other cars that have deep fishbelly sides but four or 2-1/2 panels on the slope, and quite a number of cars that have a shallower fishbelly and two panels on the slope, including unfortunately the MP prototypes which are the most interest to me.  I may look for other riveted side gons that could be sacrificed to allow splicing sides together, but the panel spacing might be an issue.  One never knows, if there is enough time and patience.

The Seaboard and Illinois Terminal cars shown in the Hendrickson article reference above have the same panel configuration as the model along with grab irons rather than the 'ladder', like the SP cars.  The L&N, Rock Island and Frisco cars shown, and some of the Southern, are also slightly off, having four panels on the slope.  I'm not concerned with top chord reinforcements, since those are easily added.

I'd do an ITC if I could figure out the decals, or an SP.  These cars could use the dimensional data in the Speedwitch set.

Ron Merrick

I am curious if there is any prototype for the 3010 kit.  None of the gons discussed earlier in this topic appear to match.
So.
Does anyone know such a prototype?  So far, I haven't found a match.

Edward Sutorik


That's exactly what I've been chasing.  One issue I see is the jacking pads, which other builders of this model have talked about removing.  Those appear on the NYC 623-G lot, which is a fairly different car, but I have not seen any on any other pictures of 20-panel 65' gons where the slope spans five panels.  The ECW model also has little molded parts (parts 15 and 16 on the instruction sheet) which represent the right and left end 'ladders' or grab irons mounted on an angle iron of some sort similar to the way a ladder would be built.  To me, that's one positive thing that distinguishes this model from the Athearn, which is much more available and much less work.  There are some prototypes that have separate grabs on the right end of the side, the SP G-70-2, 9 and 14 among them, so leaving off those parts and adding wire grabs would be easier than carving some off.

There are quite a number of other cars that have deep fishbelly sides but four or 2-1/2 panels on the slope, and quite a number of cars that have a shallower fishbelly and two panels on the slope, including unfortunately the MP prototypes which are the most interest to me.  I may look for other riveted side gons that could be sacrificed to allow splicing sides together, but the panel spacing might be an issue.  One never knows, if there is enough time and patience.

The Seaboard and Illinois Terminal cars shown in the Hendrickson article reference above have the same panel configuration as the model along with grab irons rather than the 'ladder', like the SP cars.  The L&N, Rock Island and Frisco cars shown, and some of the Southern, are also slightly off, having four panels on the slope.  I'm not concerned with top chord reinforcements, since those are easily added.

I'd do an ITC if I could figure out the decals, or an SP.  These cars could use the dimensional data in the Speedwitch set.

Ron Merrick