Date   

Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

Bill Welch
 

Personally I am not very good at reading drawings plus over the years with the stories of inaccuracies of drawings in the hobby press, I only use photos to guide my modeling.

Bill Welch


Re: Soo Line Wood Boxcars #100-444 / Accurail 7000 Series Kitbash #100-444

Sean Murphy
 

Thanks Andy,

Any chance you have the book? I don't and was wondering if I could get an image posted or scanned from the source. The WC cars were nearly identical from my understanding.


Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

Tim O'Connor
 


Aren't discussions critical of vendors' business practices (or consequences of their alleged negligence)
prohibited from the STMFC list? We know Branchline followed an incorrect drawing... but there is such a
thing as "due diligence" too. ;-)

Tim O'



On 1/30/2019 3:13 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Fenton Wells wrote:
"Not bad for an old guy, at least the info was in Mainline Modeler at some time, right wrong or indifferent."

Tell that to the manufacturers who got burned.  I'll bet Branchline had better uses for the money spent on fixing that 41 ft boxcar tooling.


Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 11:32 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Didn't Mainline Modeler did an extensive series on these boxcars in the late 1970's I seem to remember.
Fenton
We're going in circles here, Fenton. The Mainline Modeler drawings have been mentioned. While Hundman attempted to correct most the features that were included in the pre-production drawings widely published in the trade press of the day, but never made it into the production cars, he introduced his own errors, certainly including his rendition of the door hardware. His dipiction of original paint schemes was simply atrocious. 

Dennis Storzek


Re: Linkage repair on a brass locomotive

Dennis Storzek
 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is, when rolling the bead on the tubular end, it is possible to draw the parts together too tightly. Way in the past I remember a tip; poke a hole in a small piece of paper and place that between the parts to be riveted, with the rivet going through the hole. After setting the river, the paper can be ripped out, leaving .003" to .004" of clearance between the parts.

Dennis Storzek


Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

gary laakso
 

You are correct Fenton, in the January/February 1980 issue and the following issue featured a scratch built GN version.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:32 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

 

Didn't Mainline Modeler did an extensive series on these boxcars in the late 1970's I seem to remember.

Fenton

 

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:25 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

BILL PARDIE wrote:



Last week there was some discussion on the lack of drawings for the USRA double sheath box cars.  I was rather tied up so I hope that this comment is not too late

For anyone fortunate enough to have some of the old Train Shed Cyclopedias by Newton Greg there are drawings of both the single and double sheath cars in Volume

#3.  This series is a compelation of drawings from the Car Builders Cyclopedia and are much easier to handle than the CBC.  

 

    But are these not the "original USRA design" drawings, rather than the cars as actually built?

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 

 

 


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells wrote:
"Not bad for an old guy, at least the info was in Mainline Modeler at some time, right wrong or indifferent."

Tell that to the manufacturers who got burned.  I'll bet Branchline had better uses for the money spent on fixing that 41 ft boxcar tooling.


Ben Hom


Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

O Fenton Wells
 

Not bad for an old guy, at least the info was in Mainline Modeler at some time, right wrong or indifferent.
Fenton

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:59 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Fenton Wells wrote:
"Didn't Mainline Modeler did an extensive series on these boxcars in the late 1970's I seem to remember."

Can't be the late 1970s, as Mainline Modeler wasn't in print until 1980.  January and March 1980 issues (reprinted in the Phoenix soft cover Best of Mainline Modeler series), and a significant source of misinformation on these cars, specifically, a conjectural lettering diagram (some with little basis in reality) of the roads who were allocated these cars.  Ertl used this for their line of cars, which resulted in the worst feature of these models.  Thanks, Hundman.


Ben Hom





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Linkage repair on a brass locomotive

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Good advice.

When setting such a rivet one wants to roll the hollow end over into a bead rather like a doubled-over sock. You do not want to just squash it flat. Flattening it may work, but will usually crack the rivet’s new head, and weaken the rivet. This is why rivet-set tools are made.


They form the new head with a smooth sort-of “rolling-over” action (no true rotary motion is involved). Lacking a rivet-set of the correct size, a reasonable alternative is to carefully expand the rivet just a bit with a countersink or other pointed / tapered tool, then work the edge outward and down with a small jeweler’s ball-peen hammer. It’s not as good as using a proper rivet-set, but can be quite satisfactory.

As an aside, this is the same idea as rolling in boiler tubes in a tube-sheet. Here the much larger tubes ARE actually rolled into form with a rotary-roller tool driven by a large air or electric drill. As the tool rotates inside the hollow tube it forces the metal outward then bends and stretches it back over itself forming a bead.


Such a tool would be great for hollow rivets too, but for HO valve gear the parts would be microscopic!

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jan 30, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Edward <edb8391@...> wrote:

I would also like to add that when setting such a rivet to join moving parts, that it not be set too tight.
If set and too tight, the rivet should be removed and the job done over.
Trying to work a tight joint to free it up could damage the rivet 's upset.
Binding might also cause the moving parts to possibly fail at some point. 
Putting a thin piece of paper or similar removable material between the moving parts before riveting may help avoid the issue.

Ed Bommer
.


Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells wrote:
"Didn't Mainline Modeler did an extensive series on these boxcars in the late 1970's I seem to remember."

Can't be the late 1970s, as Mainline Modeler wasn't in print until 1980.  January and March 1980 issues (reprinted in the Phoenix soft cover Best of Mainline Modeler series), and a significant source of misinformation on these cars, specifically, a conjectural lettering diagram (some with little basis in reality) of the roads who were allocated these cars.  Ertl used this for their line of cars, which resulted in the worst feature of these models.  Thanks, Hundman.


Ben Hom


Re: GM&O 4670

jace6315
 

I suspect that the draw to the GM&O was that wooden single sheathed cars were likely cheaper to buy (but more expensive to maintain) compared to the steel sided cars (single or double sheathed).

Jim Matthews

-------- Original message --------
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Date: 1/30/19 12:05 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GM&O 4670

Ben

Yep, you're right. Including the War Emergency cars, the GM&O had
"modern" single sheathed
box cars with 4-4, 4-5, and 5-5 ends! I think you're right - looks like
GM&O followed the 1932, then
the 1937, and then the modified 1937 AAR designs. A case of they liked
the box cars but preferred
to use wood sides - perhaps to mollify their local lumber mill customers.

Tim O'Connor



On 1/29/2019 1:58 PM, Benjamin Scanlon via Groups.Io wrote:
> Hi, is it though, Tim?
>
> 6470 (sorry for wrong number in title of email) looks to have 4-4
> ends, the 20188 has 4-5.
>
> Also if you count the horizontal corrugations on the door, 6470 has 16
> and 20188 has 18.
>
> Further, look at where the diagonal brace ends on the car end, on the
> two cars.
>
> I am wondering if 20188 may be a composite sided version of a 1937 AAR?
> --
> Ben Scanlon
> Tottenham, England



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*




Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

O Fenton Wells
 

Didn't Mainline Modeler did an extensive series on these boxcars in the late 1970's I seem to remember.
Fenton

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:25 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
BILL PARDIE wrote:

Last week there was some discussion on the lack of drawings for the USRA double sheath box cars.  I was rather tied up so I hope that this comment is not too late
For anyone fortunate enough to have some of the old Train Shed Cyclopedias by Newton Greg there are drawings of both the single and double sheath cars in Volume
#3.  This series is a compelation of drawings from the Car Builders Cyclopedia and are much easier to handle than the CBC.  

    But are these not the "original USRA design" drawings, rather than the cars as actually built?

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

Tony Thompson
 

BILL PARDIE wrote:

Last week there was some discussion on the lack of drawings for the USRA double sheath box cars.  I was rather tied up so I hope that this comment is not too late
For anyone fortunate enough to have some of the old Train Shed Cyclopedias by Newton Greg there are drawings of both the single and double sheath cars in Volume
#3.  This series is a compelation of drawings from the Car Builders Cyclopedia and are much easier to handle than the CBC.  

    But are these not the "original USRA design" drawings, rather than the cars as actually built?

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Soo Line Wood Boxcars #100-444 / Accurail 7000 Series Kitbash #100-444

Andy Cich
 

The SOO Line Historical Society published a freight car book. It has a photo of 374 and WC 1584. WC 1500-1652, evens only, were “created” at the same time as the Soo 100-444.

 

The text says the rebuilds included AAR center sills, channel side sills, diagonal panel roofs, and power and brakes.

 

ORER data indicates these cars had 40’0” IL and 8’0” IH.

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sean Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 12:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Soo Line Wood Boxcars #100-444 / Accurail 7000 Series Kitbash

 

Hi everyone,

I am looking for photos of Soo Line boxcars #100-444 which were rebuilds in 1950 that resemble the Accurail 7000 series wood boxcar. I am looking at doing a kitbash in HO to get it close to the real thing. Drawings, dimensions, and info would also help, too. I'm no Soo expert.


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] DW composite GS gon FS

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Tim;

Thanks for sharing that. It is one of the coolest freight cars ever.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 12:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] DW composite GS gon FS


And this is what became of many of the drop doors from Rock Island General Service gondolas.
These doors used to be sold separately as detail parts by Detail Associates.

:-)


On 1/29/2019 6:34 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
How similar is this one?

Blockedhttps://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freig
ht-Cars/i-qddzp3c/A

Yes, steel replacement sides, and a different end, but overall size
and appearance.

Ron Merrick

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


USRA DOUBLE SHEATH BOXCAR DRAWINGS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


Last week there was some discussion on the lack of drawings for the USRA double sheath box cars.  I was rather tied up so I hope that this comment is not too late
For anyone fortunate enough to have some of the old Train Shed Cyclopedias by Newton Greg there are drawings of both the single and double sheath cars in Volume
#3.  This series is a compelation of drawings from the Car Builders Cyclopedia and are much easier to handle than the CBC.  Regretfully when these come out I just bought
issues as I needed them and never the complete set.

Bill Pardie
pardiw

B
billBi
Bilb
Blenoujgh to have a collection of the 


Soo Line Wood Boxcars #100-444 / Accurail 7000 Series Kitbash #100-444

Sean Murphy
 

Hi everyone,

I am looking for photos of Soo Line boxcars #100-444 which were rebuilds in 1950 that resemble the Accurail 7000 series wood boxcar. I am looking at doing a kitbash in HO to get it close to the real thing. Drawings, dimensions, and info would also help, too. I'm no Soo expert.


Related to the DA drop end gon

mopacfirst
 

This is a new thread, for obvious reasons.

Sometime in the early 90s, when there were relatively few plastic craftsman kits or anything besides Athearn, that DA kit appeared and I bought three, two steel-sided and one composite.  After a few years I started to build all three, and it was somewhat of a challenge.  I made new styrene sides for the composite car, struggled to assemble the levers and so on, and I think I bought some of those separate doors.  Construction was not going well, because every time I hit a snag I set the three cars aside and worked on something easier, like assembling a pile of Branchline cars.

Then one day I had a glue bottle accident.  I knocked over an almost-full bottle of Testors, and the spill traveled away from me on the workbench, with those three cars upside-down directly in the path of the glue flow.  As I recall, the three were a total loss, not counting the metal DA doors which were not installed in the cars, but which would have been immune to the glue spill anyway.

About that time, the RC car came out, so I bought one to at least say I had one on the railroad.  I don't know where those metal doors are.  The rest of the melted components went into the trash.

Ron Merrick


Re: DW composite GS gon FS

Tim O'Connor
 

And this is what became of many of the drop doors from Rock Island General Service gondolas.
These doors used to be sold separately as detail parts by Detail Associates.

:-)

On 1/29/2019 6:34 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
How similar is this one?

https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-qddzp3c/A

Yes, steel replacement sides, and a different end, but overall size and appearance.

Ron Merrick
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: GM&O 4670

Tim O'Connor
 

Ben

Yep, you're right. Including the War Emergency cars, the GM&O had "modern" single sheathed
box cars with 4-4, 4-5, and 5-5 ends! I think you're right - looks like GM&O followed the 1932, then
the 1937, and then the modified 1937 AAR designs. A case of they liked the box cars but preferred
to use wood sides - perhaps to mollify their local lumber mill customers.

Tim O'Connor

On 1/29/2019 1:58 PM, Benjamin Scanlon via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi, is it though, Tim?

6470 (sorry for wrong number in title of email) looks to have 4-4 ends, the 20188 has 4-5.

Also if you count the horizontal corrugations on the door, 6470 has 16 and 20188 has 18.

Further, look at where the diagonal brace ends on the car end, on the two cars.

I am wondering if 20188 may be a composite sided version of a 1937 AAR?
--
Ben Scanlon
Tottenham, England
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*