Date   

Trix Stock Cars--was MORE ON NORTHERN PACIFIC STOCK CARS

StephenK
 

I also modified Trix hoppers and have a nice train of a dozen cars.   I have also rebuilt the underframes on a half dozen CA-3s, and a few boxcars.   I skipped the Speedwitch underbody (which I know is accurate -- http://speedwitchmedia.com/product/p105-union-pacific-welded-underframe-for-box-cars/ ) and went for the easier/cheaper but not quite accurate Accurail 40' underframe -- http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/Details/106.jpg .   On the boxcar it fits with only a few swipes of a file, and the car and couplers ride at the correct height.   Assuming the stock car is using the same Trix underframe as the boxcar, this would be a good choice.   The Speedwitch part is correct for boxcars, but I doubt it is correct for the stock cars.

Steve Kay


Re: Military loads.

Ken Adams
 

Off topic because it is current rather than steam era. This is an almost model like drone view of a current day military rail move descending Cuesta grade into San Luis Obispo. Fascinating and also why many choose to model this area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT1lYx1sZys

I spent 19 months in the 3rd Armored Division in Germany 1967-69. As a result I would not consider myself very pro-military but I will model military subjects when I feel they are of historical importance and related to my theoretical layout needs.

Steam Era Content


This is an Accurail 36 foot boxcar reworked to match the actual car now in the Western Railway Museum collection in Rio Vista California. It has been "restored" to D&RGW paint scheme it carried before the US Navy bought the car in 1944 to replace equipment destroyed in the July 1944 explosion that leveled the Port Chicago (California) navy docks and surrounding area.


Re: Military loads.

Bruce Smith
 

Jim,

I’ll add that within the period of this list, there were multiple military actions that saw significant mobilizations or movements of military forces that would rationalize large scale movements, beyond the three majors conflicts (WWI, WWII, Korea), along with a nearly continuous post WWII arms race with the Soviets and Communist China, that saw regular individual movement of military vehicles, be they new, used, reconditioned, or crapped out and done. Before dismissing such moves as “unusual” I would suggest that each modeler consider the routing possible for the individual area that they model and work with the understanding that these moves were actually pretty common in the overall scheme of things… given that, again, within the era of the list, these things did not move long distance over highways.

Of course, I have no struggle rationalizing massive movements of military loads, given my June 1944 modeling date ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 4, 2019, at 1:01 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Jim Betz wrote:

  Have -I- seen pictures of military loads/equipment from the transition?
Yes, if it is during the war, not many if it is immediately post war (except
for trains directly related to the wind down), and very few if it was 1950 or
later.

    Jim, I hope you are not forgetting that there was a Korean War.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Re: Military loads.

Dave Owens
 

Hi James:
Are those images scannable?
I'd love to see them.
Thanks,
Dave Owens


Re: Military loads.

Tony Thompson
 

Jim Betz wrote:

  Have -I- seen pictures of military loads/equipment from the transition?
Yes, if it is during the war, not many if it is immediately post war (except
for trains directly related to the wind down), and very few if it was 1950 or
later.

    Jim, I hope you are not forgetting that there was a Korean War.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Military loads.

Jim Betz
 

Hi,
  I'm going to take a different tack on this entire thread.  Guys - I am probably
-JUST- as pro-military as most of the people on this list ("above average").  But ...

  As Richard H. would have said and Tony T. has pointed out many times ....
"be careful about what you do/don't put on your layout".  Just because it can
be justified as possible doesn't mean you should be running it regularly.
  I think this 'rule/guideline' applies just as much to military equipment on a
transition era layout as it does to those oddball/"I just love this car" freight
equipment.
  I'm asking "if you have to go to great lengths to justify it"? ... then it probably
doesn't "fit" on your layout for even a third of the sessions on your layout.

  ===> Can you run them every once in a while?  Of course you can.
  ===> Can you apply the "it's my RR" rule?  Of course you can!
  ===> Were they seen on very many trains in the late 40's and later?  No.

  So - IF - you care about prototypical accuracy/believability then you need to
pretty carefully "curb your enthusiasm" ... or acknowledge that "it isn't exactly
prototypical but I'm gonna do it any way".

  Have -I- seen pictures of military loads/equipment from the transition?
Yes, if it is during the war, not many if it is immediately post war (except
for trains directly related to the wind down), and very few if it was 1950 or
later.

  Some obvious exceptions - if your layout has an on layout "industry" that is
military related (base, military dock, etc.).  Or if you are actually modelling
WWII era.

  But you know what - if your layout is based in the "middlee 40's" .... you
can still get away without having -ayny- military loads/cars and it can still
be "prototypically believable".
                                                             - just saying ... Jim B.  


Re: Company Service Boxcar

Douglas Harding
 

Early rotary snowplows were steam powered and consumed lots of water as well as coal. They operated in extreme weather conditions, which was hard on man and machine. When something broke it was often in a location impossible to access. Water lines would freeze and break, requiring replacement parts and tools. Rotaries had to carry spare parts, etc. with them hence a supply car.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 12:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Company Service Boxcar

 

Here's a photo of the D&SL's rotary plow.

 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/77529/rec/2

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2019 9:40 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Company Service Boxcar

This is a link to a photo from the Denver Public Library:

The company service boxcar is stenciled "Rotary & Water Service Material".

"Water Service" I think I understand, but what is "Rotary"?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Company Service Boxcar

Jon Miller
 

On 2/4/2019 9:58 AM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io wrote:
The company service boxcar is stenciled "Rotary & Water Service Material".
"Water Service" I think I understand, but what is "Rotary"?

    More interesting is what is in the car?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Company Service Boxcar

Richard Townsend
 

Here's a photo of the D&SL's rotary plow.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/77529/rec/2

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2019 9:40 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Company Service Boxcar

This is a link to a photo from the Denver Public Library:
The company service boxcar is stenciled "Rotary & Water Service Material".
"Water Service" I think I understand, but what is "Rotary"?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Company Service Boxcar

Richard Townsend
 

Probably refers to the rotary snow plow.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2019 9:40 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Company Service Boxcar

This is a link to a photo from the Denver Public Library:
The company service boxcar is stenciled "Rotary & Water Service Material".
"Water Service" I think I understand, but what is "Rotary"?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Company Service Boxcar

Eric Hansmann
 

A rotary would be a mechanical snowplow often used on Rocky Mountain railroads in the winter to keep the tracks clear.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Company Service Boxcar

 

This is a link to a photo from the Denver Public Library:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/30840/rec/5

The company service boxcar is stenciled "Rotary & Water Service Material".

"Water Service" I think I understand, but what is "Rotary"?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Company Service Boxcar

naptownprr
 

Could rotary possibly refer to a snowplow?


Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 12:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Company Service Boxcar
 

This is a link to a photo from the Denver Public Library:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/30840/rec/5

The company service boxcar is stenciled "Rotary & Water Service Material".

"Water Service" I think I understand, but what is "Rotary"?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Company Service Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

This is a link to a photo from the Denver Public Library:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/30840/rec/5

The company service boxcar is stenciled "Rotary & Water Service Material".

"Water Service" I think I understand, but what is "Rotary"?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Military loads.

Bill Welch
 

Ideal Buick for "Road Rage" encounters. . .

Bill Welch


Military loads.

Andy Carlson
 


It has been awhile now, but I was at the Western Pacific Railroad Museum at Portola, California shortly after the 2 donated 3 axle Army flat cars arrived. The museum was excited about having a flat car which, after rails were attached, could go around the country picking up museum applications. I believe this use was accomplished once when the news came that roller bearing conversion trucks could no longer be accepted in interchange. The last I saw of these flat cars was the 3 axle Buckeye pieces in a mill gon loaded with other scrap. Portola has a record of scrapping items after donation. The loss of a rust-free Alco RS3 cemented my quitting the group.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
_._,_._,_


Re: Military loads.

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Indeed Amtrak did end up with some of these. I’d forgotten seeing them in MofW service here in Michigan on Amtrak’s’own section of track (Kalamazoo, MI to Porter, IN, 110 mph).

Dan Mitchell
========== 

On Feb 4, 2019, at 2:23 AM, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-
If I am not mistaken I saw a couple of the 1953 era cars in back of the AMTRAK ex PRR shop back in 2005 when I was there to take photos for a client.   I believe the car was lettered for AMTRAK and used to haul locomotive components between shops but I haven’t thought about the day for over a decade and could have some of the details wrong.
Charlie Vlk
 


Re: Military loads.

Bruce Smith
 

Dan,

Getting off topic, but a quick response - Trident did an HO scale mixed media resin and photo-etch M-18 Hellcat a number of years ago. I have 2 awaiting construction and loading onto a steam era flat car. I will likely leave them “untarped” as the fighting compartment is quite detailed.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:49 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Or a museum, VFW hall, or other display, or being shipped overseas to some friendly 3rd-world army. Many obsolete military vehicles end up in such places. Some (often large groups) are then shipped back to the USA for rebuilding or modernization, then returned to their current owners. Also, commercial weapons dealers buy such for resale, and ship them wherever needed.

As one example …

I’m a crew member on a restored M-18 “Hellcat” tank destroyer. The M-18s were all built by Buick Motors (General Motors) here in Flint, MI. Ours was shipped to Europe in 1944. They ended up in Europe at the end of WWII. Most of the European countries lost all their military equipment during the war. The surplus USA equipment cost more to return to the USA than it was worth, so it was given away to friendly nations to rebuild their armies. Next, our M-18 was shipped back to the USA for rebuilding by a private contractor, then it was shipped back to Europe, and ended up in the Yugoslavian Army. Then, with the collapse of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia descended into civil war in 1991. Our then ancient M-18 found itself back in combat again. Then the United Nations stepped in and removed all their heavy weapons. Six of the M-18s were purchased by a weapons-dealer in Great Britain, and shipped there. Our local (Flint, MI) Sloan Museum got word of it and arranged to have General Motors purchase one for their “Buick Collection”. Buick built no cars in 1944, just Hellcats, so it’s the only "1944 Buick" there is. Anyway, in 2002 it was shipped back to the USA, to Flint, and we spent two years doing a complete restoration of it to running condition. So … it went back and forth across the Atlantic FOUR times, plus a trip to England, and at least four trips to/from several locations in the USA over a 60-year period. LOTS of history for this vehicle, and a LOT of time being moved about. Now it’s back home.

<M-18 Hellcat - @Back To The Bricks, Flint,MI. - Aug.18,2013 - RMW (edit., tiny).jpg>

I’d love to do an HO model of a few Hellcats beign shipped out of Buick on the Pere Marquette RR. We have photos of solid trains of them, two to a flat car. Sometimes they were tarped, and at least one was crated (why ?). Unfortunately, despite all the HO military vehicles produced by many manufacturers, and some 3D printed ones, nobody’s yet done a decent M-18. Future project ...

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Feb 3, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:

Brian,
 
Of course if the tank was too early for your era, could you model one going to the scrap yard?
 
Allen Cain
 



Re: Military loads.

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Or a museum, VFW hall, or other display, or being shipped overseas to some friendly 3rd-world army. Many obsolete military vehicles end up in such places. Some (often large groups) are then shipped back to the USA for rebuilding or modernization, then returned to their current owners. Also, commercial weapons dealers buy such for resale, and ship them wherever needed.

As one example …

I’m a crew member on a restored M-18 “Hellcat” tank destroyer. The M-18s were all built by Buick Motors (General Motors) here in Flint, MI. Ours was shipped to Europe in 1944. They ended up in Europe at the end of WWII. Most of the European countries lost all their military equipment during the war. The surplus USA equipment cost more to return to the USA than it was worth, so it was given away to friendly nations to rebuild their armies. Next, our M-18 was shipped back to the USA for rebuilding by a private contractor, then it was shipped back to Europe, and ended up in the Yugoslavian Army. Then, with the collapse of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia descended into civil war in 1991. Our then ancient M-18 found itself back in combat again. Then the United Nations stepped in and removed all their heavy weapons. Six of the M-18s were purchased by a weapons-dealer in Great Britain, and shipped there. Our local (Flint, MI) Sloan Museum got word of it and arranged to have General Motors purchase one for their “Buick Collection”. Buick built no cars in 1944, just Hellcats, so it’s the only "1944 Buick" there is. Anyway, in 2002 it was shipped back to the USA, to Flint, and we spent two years doing a complete restoration of it to running condition. So … it went back and forth across the Atlantic FOUR times, plus a trip to England, and at least four trips to/from several locations in the USA over a 60-year period. LOTS of history for this vehicle, and a LOT of time being moved about. Now it’s back home.


I’d love to do an HO model of a few Hellcats beign shipped out of Buick on the Pere Marquette RR. We have photos of solid trains of them, two to a flat car. Sometimes they were tarped, and at least one was crated (why ?). Unfortunately, despite all the HO military vehicles produced by many manufacturers, and some 3D printed ones, nobody’s yet done a decent M-18. Future project ...

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Feb 3, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:

Brian,
 
Of course if the tank was too early for your era, could you model one going to the scrap yard?
 
Allen Cain
 


Re: Military loads.

james murrie
 

There are pictures of whole battalions of M-48 tanks of Wisconsin National Guard's 32nd Infantry Division being loaded for transport to Ft. Lewis WA, October 1961 on regular MILW flats; some had 2 per car, some had one.  Pictures were printed in both Railway Age and MILW employee magazines.  Unable to read car numbers, but they were definitely not 100 ton cars.


Re: Military loads.

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Quite a bit of military railroad equipment was distributed to museums across the country when declared surplus. Attached is what I remember as an ex-military car at the California State Railroad Museum shortly after delivery about 15 years ago. They had another ex-military flat car attached to this one, but it wasn't in a position that allowed photos. Also there that day was an ex-Air Force 40' PS-1 boxcar.

The second photo shows an older ex-military flat car still used in MW service on the Shenandoah Valley Railroad.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 2/4/19 2:23 AM, Charlie Vlk wrote:

All-

If I am not mistaken I saw a couple of the 1953 era cars in back of the AMTRAK ex PRR shop back in 2005 when I was there to take photos for a client.   I believe the car was lettered for AMTRAK and used to haul locomotive components between shops but I haven’t thought about the day for over a decade and could have some of the details wrong.

Charlie Vlk