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Re: Flat Black

mopacfirst
 

I wrote a book in 1990 which used lots of black & white photos I obtained from various industrial sources.  Many prints I got still had the 'rubylith' attached.  This was a sheet of red film placed over the print, then carefully sliced away around the desired image so that, when copied, a blank background surrounded the picture of the thing that was being displayed.  Exactly what freight car builders wanted to do.  In my case, these were small irregular objects (valves) that often wouldn't stand up on their own.  One picture I got, when you looked behind the rubylith, revealed a golf tee supporting one end of this valve.

Ron Merrick


Re: Flat Black

Ken Adams
 

I just picked up a rattle can of TS-6 Tamiya Matt Black which is a good "flat black" to start with. Use it over a primer though. If it is not dull enough, Tamiya TS-80 Flat-Clear can flatten it further. I have Model Master Lusterless spray but have become used to the finer Tamiya spray cans.

As I am unable to use an air brush in my un-detached living space, rattle cans and brush painting are my only choices. 

Ken


Flat car vertical brake wheel staff supports.

Ken Adams
 

I recently opened a box of older HO cars I had built from kits and discovered the flat car brake wheels broken off and the original supports missing.  I started looking for something to replace the missing parts and rebuild/maintain/perform running repairs on 3 early 1950's 53' flat cars. The only separate part I could find was the Tichy #3003 vertical brake staff kit which is good but not really suitable for a 1950's built car. And 2 of the cars I am repairing are Tichy 53' GSC flats. There instructions do not include the brake staff and if I remember this is called an economy kit in which the brake staff and underframe brake gear are not supplied.

I am fabricating "make do" repairs from bits of plastic and the brake wheel from the Tichy vertical brake staff kit.

Is there a readily available part or kit that would be a better way?   I know that for my SP flats a totally different support is apparent in photos and SP Freight Cars volume 3. 

Ken


Re: Duryea UF applications

mopacfirst
 

For the MP series, here's what Sunshine said.

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun21c.pdf

Open frame.

I never built one of these cars, since as a group of 100 cars it wasn't very representative of the MP fleet.  Although, since I'm now up over 70 MoPac system cars, perhaps I should be on the lookout for one of these.  I gang-built six of the other MP '32 cars when they first were available, and those are the last cars I used the old DA too-long Delrin bracket grabs on.

Ron Merrick


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

I wholeheartedly agree!

Back when, they also had a PRR F30A in maybe Amtrak paint (?) cascaded to them from somebody. What a beautiful flatcar that was!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Yes, the Perris "Orange Empire" museum. Many years ago, all of the wood, sidings and floor, were removed I suppose for restoring, which the last time I saw the car had not yet been done. This allows great views of the underframe with all of the brake piping and components very visible.


There are lots of freight cars at the museum.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


On Thursday, February 14, 2019, 8:32:58 AM PST, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:


It might have been Orange Empire? I spent a lot of time going over their freight cars.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> ] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Do you recall which museum?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: ART 15000 Series Questions

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Ted and Steve. Based upon the photo of 15252 in the ART book, the conversion isn’t possible with scratchbuilding the end sills, which I’m unwilling to do. I’ll see if the other photos show full sills. I’d build the kit as a 12000 series car, but all those cars were retired before my time, a detail I didn’t know about before I bought them second hand. I can always build and sell.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:01 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ART 15000 Series Questions

 

Volume 8, reefers number 3 has ART has detail pictures of ART 15551

 

Steve Hile

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ted Culotta
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:45 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ART 15000 Series Questions

Hi Nelson

 

Sadly, I can’t remember off the top of my head which volume, but there were photos of these cars in the Focus on Freight Cars that covered ART. I’m pretty sure you have that one.

 


Re: ART 15000 Series Questions

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Volume 8, reefers number 3 has ART has detail pictures of ART 15551
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ted Culotta
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:45 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ART 15000 Series Questions

Hi Nelson

Sadly, I can’t remember off the top of my head which volume, but there were photos of these cars in the Focus on Freight Cars that covered ART. I’m pretty sure you have that one.


Re: ART 15000 Series Questions

Ted Culotta
 

Hi Nelson

Sadly, I can’t remember off the top of my head which volume, but there were photos of these cars in the Focus on Freight Cars that covered ART. I’m pretty sure you have that one.


Re: Flat Black

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 08:10 AM, Jon Miller wrote:
Like to me it appears the entire track under the gon has been hand drawn.  How was that done  and why?
Photo re-touching was quite common back in the day, very likely the car was photographed either over a switch or road crossing, and someone made the judgement that the area under the car appeared too cluttered, to the point of distracting from the main subject. The whole purpose of these photos was to document both the design and workmanship of the subject, which is also the reason for cropping the entire background out.

While the subject could certainly also be retouched, it was usually not done; it is pretty obvious, and defeats the whole intent of 'seeing is believing.'

Dennis Storzek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Andy Carlson
 

Yes, the Perris "Orange Empire" museum. Many years ago, all of the wood, sidings and floor, were removed I suppose for restoring, which the last time I saw the car had not yet been done. This allows great views of the underframe with all of the brake piping and components very visible.

There are lots of freight cars at the museum.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, February 14, 2019, 8:32:58 AM PST, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:


It might have been Orange Empire?  I spent a lot of time going over their freight cars.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Do you recall which museum?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA





Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

It might have been Orange Empire? I spent a lot of time going over their freight cars.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Do you recall which museum?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Bob Chaparro
 

Do you recall which museum?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Flat Black

mopacfirst
 

There are also numerous builder's photos of freight cars that were photographed fully painted (the "as-delivered" paint scheme), but with underbody details, the inner surfaces of wheels, and sometimes other things, whitewashed so the details would show better.

Ron Merrick


Re: Flat Black

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 2/14/2019 5:26 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
negatives could be doctored in many ways

Again I'm agreeing but I do find interesting items.  Like to me it appears the entire track under the gon has been hand drawn.  How was that done  and why?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Flat Black

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 08:40 PM, Jon Miller wrote:
    While I don't doubt any of the explanations for the pictures. I am interested in the first  2 of Tim's photos.  Why is the lettering black.  Did they spray it with wash off paint to have the black letter remain? 
A comment... May people have mentioned "spray." I'm going to take the position that very few shops were spray painting in the first decades of the twentieth century, and the spray equipment that was in use was more a pump to get the paint up on the work. The paint was then finished with a brush.

Calcimine can be over coated with oil based paints and stencil pastes, and still wash off. A common problem encountered in renovating buildings in urban areas is finding that the walls and especially ceilings had been painted with calcimine at some point, then repainted with successive coats of oil based paints. The modern trend of using water based latex emulsion paints introduces enough water to the surface, and holds it there long enough, that the calcimine loosens up and all the subsequent layers of paint come off in sheets. One of the reasons that renovation contractors typically cover EVERYTHING with drywall; letting the painters start with a clean fresh surface.

My favorite wash-off paint story... For a number of years back in the eighties I worked for the Chicago Transit Authority, often at Wilson Ave. in the Uptown neighborhood. There is a multistory brick building that backs up very close to the tracks, the roof line being just perfect for a flying leap to the top of a moving elevated train. The stunt has been done several times, in more than one movie.

The building had, for years and years, rather decrepit windows, while I was up there the neighborhood started to gentrify and all the windows were replaced with modern double glazed units with bronzetone aluminum trim. About two years after this was done, along comes another movie company that wants to use the building to film the 'leap.' So, in come painters in bucket trucks, who paint all the window frames a dingy gray, with purple-gray highlights dry brushed on the flat surfaces to make them look weathered. It took them about three weeks (the building was a city block long.) They then shot the scene in a day between the morning and evening rush hours.

The next day the bucket trucks were back, and they pressure washed all the gray paint off.

If there is a financial reason that justifies the expense, temporarily painting something, then washing it clean, is easy to do.

Dennis Storzek


ART 15000 Series Questions

Nelson Moyer
 

I posted these questions on the resinfreightcarbuilders group and got no response, so I’m expanding the pool of experts. I’d like to modify the ends and sides of Westerfield #6001 (ART series 12000-12505) to ART series 15000-16999 if I can resolve a problem with the information on the PDS. The PDS states that the 15000 series had short doors (5’ 10”), but also states that AC&F started using 6’ 6” high doors in 1922, which is the build date for the 15000 series cars. It also states that ‘short’ cast end sills were used, but it also states that these end sill weren’t introduced until 1927, five years after the 15000 series was built. Photos of ART 15252 in the new ART book show short end sills, but I can’t tell if which door height was used from the photo. My questions are, were any 15000 series cars built with ‘full’ end sills like those on the 12000 series cars, and which door height was used on the 15000 series cars? I can’t do the conversion if the 15000 series had short end sills, which would otherwise involve only adding four straps and bolt heads to each corner.

 

Nelson Moyer

 


Re: Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Benjamin Hom
 

Walt Cox asked:
"All the recent posts on Gondolas made me think of the Tichy War Emergency kit and whether any of the roads that had them would have not replaced their wood sides with steel by 1959. Does anyone know of a resource that I could refer to to find out if this model could be used on a 1959 dated layout?"

Richard Hendrickson had a two-part article on these cars in the May 2002 and June 2002 issues of Railmodel Journal, including photos of NYC, PRR, ATSF, Texas & Northern, CNJ, RDG, RI, GTW, and IHB with steel sides.


Ben Hom




Re: Flat Black

Bruce Smith
 

Jon,


I've worked a lot in a darkroom and these two cars are decidedly NOT negative images or even doctored negative images. As Tim noted, the shadows are a big clue and not just those under the car. Look at the spring packages. No way that's a negative image. The cars are white (or grey) washed. Yes, they sprayed or brushed "whitewash" on the car and lettered it in black... and then washed it all off, finished the paint if it was not already done, lettered it in white stencil paste and released it for service. I'm perplexed as to why this is so hard for people to accept. It wasn't done for every car, but it wasn't hard and labor was cheap. And yes, negatives could be doctored in many ways, including dodging and airbrushing and for a moment I wondered if the entire image hadn't been airbrushed, but again, there are too many subtle clues that it is an actual image of an actual car temporarily painted in this manner.


Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat Black
 
On 2/13/2019 7:13 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
but only two are "white washed" for a photo. (see attached)

On the other hand, this tank car photo - GRCX 3200 - appears to be a black car that has been oversprayed
with something to make all the details visible. (see attached)

    While I don't doubt any of the explanations for the pictures. I am interested in the first  2 of Tim's photos.  Why is the lettering black.  Did they spray it with wash off paint to have the black letter remain?  As the pictures are trimmed around the car, if the car was very dark and the lettering was white, then a reversed neg (with a good person doing the print) would come out as the picture shows.  If you notice on the gon the track is all drawn  in.  There is a lot more done on these photos (by expensive people) then just gray, washable paint.

  The 3rd pictures makes sense for an overspray.  Before retiring I worked for a company that had photographic engineers that could do magic (I saw some of it) with B&W negs!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Walter;

Tim is correct, and to add: There was an ATSF WE gon at a museum in SoCal that had wood sides and floor to the end. I know because I crawled all over it in the late eighties.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walter Cox via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 12:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit


All the recent posts on Gondolas made me think of the Tichy War Emergency kit and whether any of the roads that had them would have not replaced their wood sides with steel by 1959. Does anyone know of a resource that I could refer to to find out if this model could be used on a 1959 dated layout ?


Re: Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Tim O'Connor
 


Walter

You should be very happy to learn that the Santa Fe still had 307 unrebuilt 52 ft 6 inch
War Emergency gondolas in service in 1959. I can also tell you the Santa Fe kept these
cars for a LONG time - into the 1980's! (Although by then they had steel sides.)

Note - these ATSF cars had Nailable Steel Flooring. The only correct model in HO I've
ever seen with a correct NSF floor is the ancient (pre-1960?) Revell PRR gondola, later
marketed by Concor.

Tim O'



On 2/14/2019 12:54 AM, Walter Cox via Groups.Io wrote:

All the recent posts on Gondolas made me think of the Tichy War Emergency kit and whether any of the roads that had them would have not replaced their wood sides with steel  by 1959. Does anyone know of  a resource that I could refer to to find out if this model could be used on a 1959 dated layout ?


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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