Date   
Re: Throwback Tuesday: MDC 50 ft SS Automobile Boxcars

Ken Adams
 

I just acquired one of the MDC kits #2118 lettered for the Illinois Central. It has the conventional ends with one end having a lumber door and wood double doors. This would have been fine on my early 1950's SP San Ramon branch converted back to WP as a lumber car inadvertently loaded for an SP destination. Shippers routing GN-WP-SN for SP delivery?

I reviewed both Train Model Journal articles from Richard Hendrickson in addition to the Resin Car works blogs and they are mostly concerned with the automobile loading versions and conversions. I did not see anything about the wood door lumber version and which roads actually used this car for lumber service. I thought the MDC originals were modeled from WP cars. The available Microscale decal set MC-4266 is for automobile cars too. I lack any real expertise in the WP even though I live close to the Antioch and Eastern/SN line and don't have the resources readily available to do detail investigation on their boxcar fleet. Eating too much octopus/calamari is my only excuse. 

Any information about the prototype lumber version of the MDC car and whether there was an actual WP car like it would be helpful. And would the MC-4266 decal set work. 

For rebuilding I am planning to replace the steps and roofwalk. For the ladders, I am going to try the technique of just carving out the rungs and replacing them with .010 plastic rod. Other grab irons would of course be replaced. Unless someone has come up with a method of minimizing the deep groves in the side boards, I will live with that.

Ken Adams

Re: Twin Star Cars

spsalso
 

I've received my parts for the Chrysler truck conversion.  The part includes the shock absorber and two of the truck springs.  It's obvious that the part slides into a newly created void in the truck.  My question is:  Which truck?

I'd prefer not to guess.  I assume the part was designed to fit a particular model.  So I'm asking which one.

Do you use a sprung truck, and remove the springs?  Do you carve out some or all of the springs on a one-piece?  Sounds like fun with Delrin.

What should I do to use these parts?



Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: George Hook built the CV kits: Central Valley Rolling Stock Kits and Jack Parker

Richard Bale
 

Jack Parker worked at Revell where he prepared tooling for all types of products including the ubiquitous Revell Engine House, which was designed by his co-worker Alan Armitage. In a 1995 interview Parker mentioned that Armitage specified used and broken bricks in his design which was initially rejected by his supervisor who thought the brickwork should be pristine. After several arguments Armitage was allowed to introduce selective aging, which Parker cut into the tooling.

Parker and Armitage -- a wonderfully talented pair who influenced model railroading many, lasting ways.
Richard Bale 

In a message dated 2/21/2019 9:17:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, midcentury@... writes:


George Hook was the founder of Central Valley Works, formed after WWll.  Located in North Hollywood for years selling mostly kits and die cast sprung HO trucks. Jack Parker, having left Mattel (Jack did a lot of development work for what was to become "Hotwheels"), purchased Central Valley in the early 1980s. Jack attempted to redesign the HO trucks and came out with I believe the first "Semi-
Scale" wheelsets in the market. There was some quality control issues with the first runs, and after an historical scathing from a Model railroader review, Jack discontinued all truck manufacturing. Jack devoted his time to tooling the Piru, California, SP through truss bridge, which became a huge hit. Jack was able to take his new wealth and move to a ideal spot for a Model Railroad Supply company, close to the coast, south of Pismo Beach, CA.

George Hook's freight car kits had long been dormant  before Jack's purchase of the line. He had zero interest in resurrecting the kits.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, February 21, 2019, 8:44:29 AM PST, Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


This was back in the time when Jack Parker owned the company and it was in Southern California. Jack moved the operation to Oceano, CA, and built a large Northern Pacific layout in the same building. His son, Jeff, took over after Jack passed and still produces various products. The layout is still operational.
Both the shop and the layout are open during the layout tour I organize each October for the Central Coast Railroad Festival (http://ccrrf.com/).
Here are a few photos.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

NKP 70000-70499

Dave Nelson
 

I have only three photos on hand of the 1920’s era NKP 70000-70499, one of those gondolas that look like a flat car with an open top wood box set on it, held in place w/ side stakes.

 

My first question is about this feature: I expected to see a bulb angle on the top of the car sides, much as you would with an all steel gondola, but best I can tell from the three photos it looks like either no steel at all or perhaps a small L angle or possibly a small C Channel (if there is steel on the inside).  By small I mean maybe 2-3 inches of descent from the top of the car side.   Or possibly no steel at all.   What is really there? 

 

The other question is about what passes for the steel side sill.  It appears to be a straight surface from the bottom of the floor to the lowest edge.  There is a row of rivets about 2 inches from both top and bottom edge.  This suggests to me that what one sees here as a large hunk of steel is just a thin web concealing the strong structural shapes behind it. Does that sound right?

 

Dave Nelson

Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Michael Gross
 

I think we're very definitely in Santa Fe territory here:  in addition to the plated end car already identified, in other photos I see what looks like one intact Caswell gondola, another in the process of disassembly, and numerous ATSF wooden work cars recycled from DS box cars.

Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA

Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

John.  

Looks like you've got it!   The other cars that are interesting are those having ends made from Murphy gondola ends mounted vertically.

Tom Casey


-----Original Message-----
From: John Barry <northbaylines@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2019 6:51 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tom,

I agree that this was likely not a reefer, but its also likely not a(n) (un)rebuilt furniture car.  

It has a faded A.T.S.F. MoW number that I read as 196825, it also has a partial faded number below the work series number that I read as 382.
The three vertically joined end panels, lack of brake step, vertical brake shaft, grab iron end ladder, and single panel on the side are all consistent with the as built configuration of the Bx-Z.  The dark (black?) lettering on a light (grey?) carbody are also indicative of non-revenue service.  The style of the ATSF with periods but no ampersand date the re-paint/re-stencil to 1938-1943.

I would say that it was likely that the car was retired from MoW service and scrapped as A.T.S.F. Wx-Z 196825.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, February 22, 2019, 8:25:48 PM EST, tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...> wrote:


Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

John Barry
 

Tom,

I agree that this was likely not a reefer, but its also likely not a(n) (un)rebuilt furniture car.  

It has a faded A.T.S.F. MoW number that I read as 196825, it also has a partial faded number below the work series number that I read as 382.
The three vertically joined end panels, lack of brake step, vertical brake shaft, grab iron end ladder, and single panel on the side are all consistent with the as built configuration of the Bx-Z.  The dark (black?) lettering on a light (grey?) carbody are also indicative of non-revenue service.  The style of the ATSF with periods but no ampersand date the re-paint/re-stencil to 1938-1943.

I would say that it was likely that the car was retired from MoW service and scrapped as A.T.S.F. Wx-Z 196825.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, February 22, 2019, 8:25:48 PM EST, tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...> wrote:


Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: Proctor & Gamble Tank Cars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

P&G also has a large plant near Sacramento which used to produce "synthetic granules", meaning powdered laundry detergent such as Tide. I had the chance to tour the factory in my boyhood (factory tours are largely a thing of the past!). The Sacramento facility produced or used a lot of glycerine, which I learned had a potential wartime role in making explosives. The facility was switched by the Central California Traction Co. and the SP. Today that would be the UP.

Getting off topic a bit, but the Los Angeles Soap Company had a plant which made a brand called White King D, the first granulated detergent. They sponsored "Queen for a Day" on radio and TV for years. The company went out of business in 1987. When I drove a truck in LA after college I used to go past the plant, and though I carried a camera I never took a photo.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 2/22/19 6:06 PM, G.J. Irwin wrote:
Actually, Palmolive Soap was a product of the Colgate-Palmolive Company, a key P&G rival.   One of the well-known C-P plants was walking distance from my boyhood home in Jersey City, New Jersey... served by classic street trackage south of the PRR's Exchange Place station.  I have a couple of photos of tank cars parked at the plant.

The best known soap made by P&G was Ivory.

We now return you to your regular programming, already in progress...

George Irwin

Re: Proctor & Gamble Tank Cars

Ted Culotta
 

Ummmm.... Palmolive is made by Colgate-Palmolive. That’s akin to talking about the IPhone from Samsung.

Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: Procter & Gamble and Colgate-Palmolive

Tony Thompson
 

Don Valentine wrote:

    It;s known as global marketing, Tony. Proctor & Gamble products have been very popular in Eastern Europe, especially in Russia and Ukraine, for some twenty-five years now . . .

    Um, as we usually discuss North American freight cars, I didn't touch on sales in other parts of the world. For North America, I will stand by what I wrote.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Procter & Gamble and Colgate-Palmolive

Donald B. Valentine
 

Palmolive originally was a product of the B.J. Johnson Company, and their primary product, a very popular soap, was given the Palmolive name for its ingredients, back in 1898. In 1928, Palmolive, already merged with Peets Brothers to form Palmolive-Peets, PUIRCHASED Colgate to form Colgate-Palmolive-Peet. The "Peet" was dropped in 1953, and today the company is still named Colgate-Palmolive.
       Certainly it's true that this is a separate topic from Procter & Gamble, who was the main competitor of Colgate-Palmolive and in fact usually outsold them in the soap business.

Tony Thompson    


    It;s known as global marketing, Tony. Proctor & Gamble products have been very popular in Eastern Europe, especially in Russia and Ukraine, for some twenty-five years now but I rarely saw any Colgate-Palmolive products in such places until the last year or two. No doubt that's one reason
P&G outsells its competitors. Same thing with jeans. Wrangler jeans are still the most popular tin such places even though they are now made in Mexico!  And model railroading is growing as a hobby
there even thoough it is dying here. There is a large club in Moscow now that meets on Tuesday 
evenings, if memory serves, and such products are more often seen in stores..Feniks HO scale tank cars with molded resin bodies and well done metal framework and such are superb. The number of injecion molded models is increasing as well. Hit "Russian models" on eBay some time and see for
yourself.

My best, Don Valentine

Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Bill Vaughn
 

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim O'Connor
 

an Rr-19 perhaps?

On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?

https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater

David Thompson
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Proctor & Gamble Tank Cars

G.J. Irwin
 

Actually, Palmolive Soap was a product of the Colgate-Palmolive Company, a key P&G rival.   One of the well-known C-P plants was walking distance from my boyhood home in Jersey City, New Jersey... served by classic street trackage south of the PRR's Exchange Place station.  I have a couple of photos of tank cars parked at the plant.

The best known soap made by P&G was Ivory.

We now return you to your regular programming, already in progress...

George Irwin

Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

You can faintly make out the reporting marks as ATSF

Tom Casey


-----Original Message-----
From: David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001@...>
To: RealSTMFC <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 4:33 pm
Subject: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?


David Thompson




Re: Procter & Gamble and Colgate-Palmolive

Aley, Jeff A
 

You guys are right – I got confused.  The Colgate-Palmolive-Peet factory in KC was only a couple of blocks away from P&G.

 

In fact, the two smokestacks at the bottom of the photo I posted are at Colgate.

 

Thanks for the correction!

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 1:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Procter & Gamble and Colgate-Palmolive

 

Andy Carlson wrote:



Though Palmolive may have been named for Palm oil and Olive oil combos, it was never a Procter and Gamble product. Back in nthe 1920s, the Palmolive corporation was founded. Later merged with the colgate company. Not associated at all with P&G.

 

       Palmolive originally was a product of the B.J. Johnson Company, and their primary product, a very popular soap, was given the Palmolive name for its ingredients, back in 1898. In 1928, Palmolive, already merged with Peets Brothers to form Palmolive-Peets, PUIRCHASED Colgate to form Colgate-Palmolive-Peet. The "Peet" was dropped in 1953, and today the company is still named Colgate-Palmolive.

       Certainly it's true that this is a separate topic from Procter & Gamble, who was the main competitor of Colgate-Palmolive and in fact usually outsold them in the soap business.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 



 

freight cars being scrapped in 1947

David
 

Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?

https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater

David Thompson

Re: Procter & Gamble and Colgate-Palmolive

Tony Thompson
 

Andy Carlson wrote:

Though Palmolive may have been named for Palm oil and Olive oil combos, it was never a Procter and Gamble product. Back in nthe 1920s, the Palmolive corporation was founded. Later merged with the colgate company. Not associated at all with P&G.

       Palmolive originally was a product of the B.J. Johnson Company, and their primary product, a very popular soap, was given the Palmolive name for its ingredients, back in 1898. In 1928, Palmolive, already merged with Peets Brothers to form Palmolive-Peets, PUIRCHASED Colgate to form Colgate-Palmolive-Peet. The "Peet" was dropped in 1953, and today the company is still named Colgate-Palmolive.
       Certainly it's true that this is a separate topic from Procter & Gamble, who was the main competitor of Colgate-Palmolive and in fact usually outsold them in the soap business.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Procter & Gamble and Colgate-Palmolive

Andy Carlson
 

One more correction for the week----

Though Palmolive may have been named for Palm oil and Olive oil combos, it was never a Procter and Gamble product. Back in nthe 1920s, the Palmolive corporation was founded. Later merged with the colgate company. Not associated at all with P&G.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On 2/22/2019 1:15 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:
> Indeed, P&G made a lot of soap.  As you know, soaps can be made with many different kinds of oil - coconut, palm, etc.
> One of their products was a soap made with a mixture of PALM oil and OLIVE oil -- PALMOLIVE.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-