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Re: Twin Star Cars

Ross Dando
 

I will chime in on what my thought process was when creating the part.  
First I created it to work on the Kato 70 ton Roller bearing truck for converting the troop sleepers the Rock Island had.  This works great.
Second was the friction bearing version at the request of a list member. I have converted the friction bearing trucks provided in the Kato hopper kits. I have also done a set of Tahoe Bettendorf trucks.  Im sorry I did not have an exact truck in mind for the friction trucks. 
I do machine a pocket to let the casting sit back in the side frame a bit on both styles.
As a note a "bit" equals 0.020"

Ross Dando
Re: Twin Star Cars

Tim O'Connor
 


I had the same thought Andy - although I was thinking of using my Eastern Car Works
Dalman sideframes. They are styrene, for one thing. Not Delrin.


On 2/23/2019 9:46 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:
Hi-
I have thought that the TMW Dalman 2-level would be a good start, as the side frame has a wide spring area, which the Chrysler trucks also feature.

I have not gone that far yet in testing this kitbash.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Saturday, February 23, 2019, 5:36:08 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Ed

There is no "correct" truck for the Chrysler sideframe. Just use one
that looks close.


On 2/23/2019 6:26 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io wrote:
> I've received my parts for the Chrysler truck conversion.  The part
> includes the shock absorber and two of the truck springs.  It's
> obvious that the part slides into a newly created void in the truck.
>  My question is:  Which truck?
>
> I'd prefer not to guess.  I assume the part was designed to fit a
> particular model.  So I'm asking which one.
>
> Edward Sutorik


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*





--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: NKP 70000-70499

Ray Breyer
 

Hi Dave, 

No bulbs; these are drop end mill gons. There are just a couple of flat plates formed as needed to block the door from moving forward, and sandwiching the ends of the wood boards.

As for the sides, you're right. The actual side sills are just hefty C channel behind the steel plate.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Saturday, February 23, 2019, 4:19:32 PM CST, Dave Nelson <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:


I have only three photos on hand of the 1920’s era NKP 70000-70499, one of those gondolas that look like a flat car with an open top wood box set on it, held in place w/ side stakes.

 

My first question is about this feature: I expected to see a bulb angle on the top of the car sides, much as you would with an all steel gondola, but best I can tell from the three photos it looks like either no steel at all or perhaps a small L angle or possibly a small C Channel (if there is steel on the inside).  By small I mean maybe 2-3 inches of descent from the top of the car side.   Or possibly no steel at all.   What is really there? 

 

The other question is about what passes for the steel side sill.  It appears to be a straight surface from the bottom of the floor to the lowest edge.  There is a row of rivets about 2 inches from both top and bottom edge.  This suggests to me that what one sees here as a large hunk of steel is just a thin web concealing the strong structural shapes behind it. Does that sound right?

 

Dave Nelson
Interesting loads.

Brian Carlson
 

After seeing Eric Thur’s circuit breaker load at Cocoa Beach, I knew I wanted to do it “someday”.  However, I was in vacation mode and even though I spent a lot of time with Eric I didn’t ask him where he got it. Thankfully, Ted noticed it too and wrote about it in his blog. He included a link to the sellers eBay store. 
Ted’s blog post. 

http://prototopics.blogspot.com/2019/01/a-new-load-allis-chalmers-bzo-hv-oil.html?m=1 



Well looking at the offerings I found two other industrial looking pieces that I thought would make nice loads. Both are labeled as part of a forging press. 


The upper one may become a load for the currently under construction F22. The smaller piece overhangs the deck so I might look for a wider deck flat. 


The pictures attached to this email show the loads on an F22 because I had it on the bench. 


There is very little cleanup required on the two pieces I received. I’m just going to paint these are steel casting color and create a load. 


Just thought others might be interested. 


Brian J. Carlson 
Re: Twin Star Cars

Andy Carlson
 

Hi-
I have thought that the TMW Dalman 2-level would be a good start, as the side frame has a wide spring area, which the Chrysler trucks also feature.

I have not gone that far yet in testing this kitbash.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Saturday, February 23, 2019, 5:36:08 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Ed

There is no "correct" truck for the Chrysler sideframe. Just use one
that looks close.


On 2/23/2019 6:26 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io wrote:
> I've received my parts for the Chrysler truck conversion.  The part
> includes the shock absorber and two of the truck springs.  It's
> obvious that the part slides into a newly created void in the truck.
>  My question is:  Which truck?
>
> I'd prefer not to guess.  I assume the part was designed to fit a
> particular model.  So I'm asking which one.
>
> Edward Sutorik


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: George Hook built the CV kits: Central Valley Rolling Stock Kits and Jack Parker

al_westerfield
 

I met George once at a train show in White Plains.  Bought a number of his wonderful passenger car trucks. Al Westerfield



On February 23, 2019, at 5:30 PM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:


Andy and Friends,

I had several of these kits when I was a teenager, and seem to remember that most of the cast metal parts were very similar to parts from other manufacturers such as Silver Streak. Did Mr. Hook cast his own, or did he source his metal parts from vendors? Some of these parts might still be available. Clover House used to sell similar metal parts, and Tichy has nicer parts in plastic. Duplicating the cars would not be difficult using Northeastern wood parts.

Of course what is missing are the screens or masks for the lettering, as I doubt that any of these have survived. Some of the lettering is probably available from Clover House.

Wood kits may not stack up to resin, but are fun to build. Rail Tales in Charlottesville ( http://www.railtalesva.com ) has a stack of untouched CV wood kits at bargain prices (as well as Ambroid, Silver Streak, Mainline and Ulrich). All you need is one CV car, since they were all pretty much alike.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


George Hook was the founder of Central Valley Works, formed after WWll.  Located in North Hollywood for years selling mostly kits and die cast sprung HO trucks. Jack Parker, having left Mattel (Jack did a lot of development work for what was to become "Hotwheels"), purchased Central Valley in the early 1980s. Jack attempted to redesign the HO trucks and came out with I believe the first "Semi-
Scale" wheelsets in the market. There was some quality control issues with the first runs, and after an historical scathing from a Model railroader review, Jack discontinued all truck manufacturing. Jack devoted his time to tooling the Piru, California, SP through truss bridge, which became a huge hit. Jack was able to take his new wealth and move to a ideal spot for a Model Railroad Supply company, close to the coast, south of Pismo Beach, CA.

George Hook's freight car kits had long been dormant  before Jack's purchase of the line. He had zero interest in resurrecting the kits.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Re: Twin Star Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed

There is no "correct" truck for the Chrysler sideframe. Just use one that looks close.

On 2/23/2019 6:26 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io wrote:
I've received my parts for the Chrysler truck conversion.  The part includes the shock absorber and two of the truck springs.  It's obvious that the part slides into a newly created void in the truck.  My question is:  Which truck?

I'd prefer not to guess.  I assume the part was designed to fit a particular model.  So I'm asking which one.

Edward Sutorik
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: Throwback Tuesday: MDC 50 ft SS Automobile Boxcars

mopacfirst
 

Somewhere, I don't recall on which thread, someone expressed surprise that there was a single door version.  Big surprise to me too, but I could use a T&P version.  Lo and behold, eBay came through.  There was exactly one available amongst probably a dozen of the double door version.

Now the model I built at the time has 3-3 ends without a lumber door on the A end.  So there must have been yet another variation.  Unfortunately, the typical eBay listing only has one side photo, not enough to tell what the ends are.

I too would love to have a technique for making the side grooves disappear.  I wonder if ACC might fill them.  My objective is a steel-sided rebuild.

Ron Merrick
Re: Throwback Tuesday: MDC 50 ft SS Automobile Boxcars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Ken,

You are correct that most material on these cars seems to concentrate on the automobile versions. The cars built for lumber/general service get little mention. This includes John Ryczkowski's article in March 1995 MM.

However, the general arrangement drawings for both types, and all the rebuilt variants can be found at https://www.wplives.com .

All of the WP 50' SS boxcars had steel doors their whole lives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 2/23/19 7:22 PM, Ken Adams wrote:
I just acquired one of the MDC kits #2118 lettered for the Illinois Central. It has the conventional ends with one end having a lumber door and wood double doors. This would have been fine on my early 1950's SP San Ramon branch converted back to WP as a lumber car inadvertently loaded for an SP destination. Shippers routing GN-WP-SN for SP delivery?

I reviewed both Train Model Journal articles from Richard Hendrickson in addition to the Resin Car works blogs and they are mostly concerned with the automobile loading versions and conversions. I did not see anything about the wood door lumber version and which roads actually used this car for lumber service. I thought the MDC originals were modeled from WP cars. The available Microscale decal set MC-4266 is for automobile cars too. I lack any real expertise in the WP even though I live close to the Antioch and Eastern/SN line and don't have the resources readily available to do detail investigation on their boxcar fleet. Eating too much octopus/calamari is my only excuse. 

Any information about the prototype lumber version of the MDC car and whether there was an actual WP car like it would be helpful. And would the MC-4266 decal set work. 

For rebuilding I am planning to replace the steps and roofwalk. For the ladders, I am going to try the technique of just carving out the rungs and replacing them with .010 plastic rod. Other grab irons would of course be replaced. Unless someone has come up with a method of minimizing the deep groves in the side boards, I will live with that.

Ken Adams

Re: George Hook built the CV kits: Central Valley Rolling Stock Kits and Jack Parker

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Andy and Friends,

I had several of these kits when I was a teenager, and seem to remember that most of the cast metal parts were very similar to parts from other manufacturers such as Silver Streak. Did Mr. Hook cast his own, or did he source his metal parts from vendors? Some of these parts might still be available. Clover House used to sell similar metal parts, and Tichy has nicer parts in plastic. Duplicating the cars would not be difficult using Northeastern wood parts.

Of course what is missing are the screens or masks for the lettering, as I doubt that any of these have survived. Some of the lettering is probably available from Clover House.

Wood kits may not stack up to resin, but are fun to build. Rail Tales in Charlottesville ( http://www.railtalesva.com ) has a stack of untouched CV wood kits at bargain prices (as well as Ambroid, Silver Streak, Mainline and Ulrich). All you need is one CV car, since they were all pretty much alike.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



George Hook was the founder of Central Valley Works, formed after WWll.  Located in North Hollywood for years selling mostly kits and die cast sprung HO trucks. Jack Parker, having left Mattel (Jack did a lot of development work for what was to become "Hotwheels"), purchased Central Valley in the early 1980s. Jack attempted to redesign the HO trucks and came out with I believe the first "Semi-
Scale" wheelsets in the market. There was some quality control issues with the first runs, and after an historical scathing from a Model railroader review, Jack discontinued all truck manufacturing. Jack devoted his time to tooling the Piru, California, SP through truss bridge, which became a huge hit. Jack was able to take his new wealth and move to a ideal spot for a Model Railroad Supply company, close to the coast, south of Pismo Beach, CA.

George Hook's freight car kits had long been dormant  before Jack's purchase of the line. He had zero interest in resurrecting the kits.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Re: Throwback Tuesday: MDC 50 ft SS Automobile Boxcars

Ken Adams
 

I just acquired one of the MDC kits #2118 lettered for the Illinois Central. It has the conventional ends with one end having a lumber door and wood double doors. This would have been fine on my early 1950's SP San Ramon branch converted back to WP as a lumber car inadvertently loaded for an SP destination. Shippers routing GN-WP-SN for SP delivery?

I reviewed both Train Model Journal articles from Richard Hendrickson in addition to the Resin Car works blogs and they are mostly concerned with the automobile loading versions and conversions. I did not see anything about the wood door lumber version and which roads actually used this car for lumber service. I thought the MDC originals were modeled from WP cars. The available Microscale decal set MC-4266 is for automobile cars too. I lack any real expertise in the WP even though I live close to the Antioch and Eastern/SN line and don't have the resources readily available to do detail investigation on their boxcar fleet. Eating too much octopus/calamari is my only excuse. 

Any information about the prototype lumber version of the MDC car and whether there was an actual WP car like it would be helpful. And would the MC-4266 decal set work. 

For rebuilding I am planning to replace the steps and roofwalk. For the ladders, I am going to try the technique of just carving out the rungs and replacing them with .010 plastic rod. Other grab irons would of course be replaced. Unless someone has come up with a method of minimizing the deep groves in the side boards, I will live with that.

Ken Adams
Re: Twin Star Cars

spsalso
 

I've received my parts for the Chrysler truck conversion.  The part includes the shock absorber and two of the truck springs.  It's obvious that the part slides into a newly created void in the truck.  My question is:  Which truck?

I'd prefer not to guess.  I assume the part was designed to fit a particular model.  So I'm asking which one.

Do you use a sprung truck, and remove the springs?  Do you carve out some or all of the springs on a one-piece?  Sounds like fun with Delrin.

What should I do to use these parts?



Ed

Edward Sutorik
Re: George Hook built the CV kits: Central Valley Rolling Stock Kits and Jack Parker

Richard Bale <Rhbale@...>
 

Jack Parker worked at Revell where he prepared tooling for all types of products including the ubiquitous Revell Engine House, which was designed by his co-worker Alan Armitage. In a 1995 interview Parker mentioned that Armitage specified used and broken bricks in his design which was initially rejected by his supervisor who thought the brickwork should be pristine. After several arguments Armitage was allowed to introduce selective aging, which Parker cut into the tooling.

Parker and Armitage -- a wonderfully talented pair who influenced model railroading many, lasting ways.
Richard Bale 

In a message dated 2/21/2019 9:17:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, midcentury@... writes:


George Hook was the founder of Central Valley Works, formed after WWll.  Located in North Hollywood for years selling mostly kits and die cast sprung HO trucks. Jack Parker, having left Mattel (Jack did a lot of development work for what was to become "Hotwheels"), purchased Central Valley in the early 1980s. Jack attempted to redesign the HO trucks and came out with I believe the first "Semi-
Scale" wheelsets in the market. There was some quality control issues with the first runs, and after an historical scathing from a Model railroader review, Jack discontinued all truck manufacturing. Jack devoted his time to tooling the Piru, California, SP through truss bridge, which became a huge hit. Jack was able to take his new wealth and move to a ideal spot for a Model Railroad Supply company, close to the coast, south of Pismo Beach, CA.

George Hook's freight car kits had long been dormant  before Jack's purchase of the line. He had zero interest in resurrecting the kits.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, February 21, 2019, 8:44:29 AM PST, Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


This was back in the time when Jack Parker owned the company and it was in Southern California. Jack moved the operation to Oceano, CA, and built a large Northern Pacific layout in the same building. His son, Jeff, took over after Jack passed and still produces various products. The layout is still operational.
Both the shop and the layout are open during the layout tour I organize each October for the Central Coast Railroad Festival (http://ccrrf.com/).
Here are a few photos.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
NKP 70000-70499

Dave Nelson
 

I have only three photos on hand of the 1920’s era NKP 70000-70499, one of those gondolas that look like a flat car with an open top wood box set on it, held in place w/ side stakes.

 

My first question is about this feature: I expected to see a bulb angle on the top of the car sides, much as you would with an all steel gondola, but best I can tell from the three photos it looks like either no steel at all or perhaps a small L angle or possibly a small C Channel (if there is steel on the inside).  By small I mean maybe 2-3 inches of descent from the top of the car side.   Or possibly no steel at all.   What is really there? 

 

The other question is about what passes for the steel side sill.  It appears to be a straight surface from the bottom of the floor to the lowest edge.  There is a row of rivets about 2 inches from both top and bottom edge.  This suggests to me that what one sees here as a large hunk of steel is just a thin web concealing the strong structural shapes behind it. Does that sound right?

 

Dave Nelson
Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Michael Gross
 

I think we're very definitely in Santa Fe territory here:  in addition to the plated end car already identified, in other photos I see what looks like one intact Caswell gondola, another in the process of disassembly, and numerous ATSF wooden work cars recycled from DS box cars.

Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA
Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

John.  

Looks like you've got it!   The other cars that are interesting are those having ends made from Murphy gondola ends mounted vertically.

Tom Casey


-----Original Message-----
From: John Barry <northbaylines@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2019 6:51 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tom,

I agree that this was likely not a reefer, but its also likely not a(n) (un)rebuilt furniture car.  

It has a faded A.T.S.F. MoW number that I read as 196825, it also has a partial faded number below the work series number that I read as 382.
The three vertically joined end panels, lack of brake step, vertical brake shaft, grab iron end ladder, and single panel on the side are all consistent with the as built configuration of the Bx-Z.  The dark (black?) lettering on a light (grey?) carbody are also indicative of non-revenue service.  The style of the ATSF with periods but no ampersand date the re-paint/re-stencil to 1938-1943.

I would say that it was likely that the car was retired from MoW service and scrapped as A.T.S.F. Wx-Z 196825.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, February 22, 2019, 8:25:48 PM EST, tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...> wrote:


Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

John Barry
 

Tom,

I agree that this was likely not a reefer, but its also likely not a(n) (un)rebuilt furniture car.  

It has a faded A.T.S.F. MoW number that I read as 196825, it also has a partial faded number below the work series number that I read as 382.
The three vertically joined end panels, lack of brake step, vertical brake shaft, grab iron end ladder, and single panel on the side are all consistent with the as built configuration of the Bx-Z.  The dark (black?) lettering on a light (grey?) carbody are also indicative of non-revenue service.  The style of the ATSF with periods but no ampersand date the re-paint/re-stencil to 1938-1943.

I would say that it was likely that the car was retired from MoW service and scrapped as A.T.S.F. Wx-Z 196825.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, February 22, 2019, 8:25:48 PM EST, tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...> wrote:


Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: Proctor & Gamble Tank Cars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

P&G also has a large plant near Sacramento which used to produce "synthetic granules", meaning powdered laundry detergent such as Tide. I had the chance to tour the factory in my boyhood (factory tours are largely a thing of the past!). The Sacramento facility produced or used a lot of glycerine, which I learned had a potential wartime role in making explosives. The facility was switched by the Central California Traction Co. and the SP. Today that would be the UP.

Getting off topic a bit, but the Los Angeles Soap Company had a plant which made a brand called White King D, the first granulated detergent. They sponsored "Queen for a Day" on radio and TV for years. The company went out of business in 1987. When I drove a truck in LA after college I used to go past the plant, and though I carried a camera I never took a photo.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 2/22/19 6:06 PM, G.J. Irwin wrote:
Actually, Palmolive Soap was a product of the Colgate-Palmolive Company, a key P&G rival.   One of the well-known C-P plants was walking distance from my boyhood home in Jersey City, New Jersey... served by classic street trackage south of the PRR's Exchange Place station.  I have a couple of photos of tank cars parked at the plant.

The best known soap made by P&G was Ivory.

We now return you to your regular programming, already in progress...

George Irwin

Re: Proctor & Gamble Tank Cars

Ted Culotta
 

Ummmm.... Palmolive is made by Colgate-Palmolive. That’s akin to talking about the IPhone from Samsung.
Re: freight cars being scrapped in 1947

tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
21201 - 21220 of 183573