Date   

Re: ATSF Bx56

Paul Doggett
 

Thanks Fenton 

I like the odd doors as well.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 27 Feb 2019, at 15:13, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

Looking good Paul.  Interesting door selection.  
Fenton

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 10:11 AM Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

Some progress on a Sunshine ATSF Bx56




Just need to drill about 76 #79 holes 🤪🤪🤪

Paul Doggett   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: ATSF Bx56

O Fenton Wells
 

Looking good Paul.  Interesting door selection.  
Fenton

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 10:11 AM Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

Some progress on a Sunshine ATSF Bx56




Just need to drill about 76 #79 holes 🤪🤪🤪

Paul Doggett   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

Richard Townsend
 

By the way, it's also in Train Shed #5. The basic model is quite good for its time, with reasonably-sized rivets. 

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2019 5:45 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

Thanks for the data, Richard! I've been told many times that there are published plans for the Erie gondolas but none of the folks recalled where they were published.

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On February 26, 2019 at 9:10 PM "Richard Townsend via Groups.Io" <richtownsend@...> wrote:

They do. A photo of the prototype, plus plans, are in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia, pages 236-37. The car in the photo is Erie 44000. It has drop doors.

Also, I need to correct myself regarding the Lindberg stock car. The article I referred to was in the January 1991 RMC, pages 86-87: "Build a Milwaukee Road stock car" by John Swanson.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Feb 26, 2019 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

I bought a pair of the Lindbergh gons several years ago. IIRC, they follow an Erie coal gondola prototype.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 6:48 PM, Benjamin Hom < b.hom@...> wrote:
>
> Dave North wrote:
> "I believe the Con Cor 50’ gondola was originally a Lindberg product?"
>
> No.  Revell.
>
>
> Ben Hom
>
>
>






ATSF Bx56

Paul Doggett
 

Some progress on a Sunshine ATSF Bx56




Just need to drill about 76 #79 holes 🤪🤪🤪

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


Re: Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

 

Erie RR used those gons to move coal.  There are pix of them on the Central Avenue pier on Lake Erie in Dunkirk NY where the Erie delivered coal from the Toby Mines near Brockway PA to lake boats.  


Re: H30 in Service

csxt5555
 

Thanks Eric.  This is 1.5 scale.  I working on some boxcars now that I hope to incorporate detailed resin cast ends and doors.

Kevin


On Feb 27, 2019, at 8:43 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

That looks great. 

What scale is this, Kevin?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On February 27, 2019 at 6:13 AM "csxt5555 via Groups.Io" <csxt5555@...> wrote:


Here is 1 of the 10 H30 kits I did earning its keep in sand service.

Enjoy
Kevin Sprayberry
Erwin Shops




Re: H30 in Service

gtws00
 

Nicely Done!
George Toman


Re: Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the data, Richard! I've been told many times that there are published plans for the Erie gondolas but none of the folks recalled where they were published.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On February 26, 2019 at 9:10 PM "Richard Townsend via Groups.Io" <richtownsend@...> wrote:

They do. A photo of the prototype, plus plans, are in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia, pages 236-37. The car in the photo is Erie 44000. It has drop doors.

Also, I need to correct myself regarding the Lindberg stock car. The article I referred to was in the January 1991 RMC, pages 86-87: "Build a Milwaukee Road stock car" by John Swanson.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Feb 26, 2019 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

I bought a pair of the Lindbergh gons several years ago. IIRC, they follow an Erie coal gondola prototype.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 6:48 PM, Benjamin Hom < b.hom@...> wrote:
>
> Dave North wrote:
> "I believe the Con Cor 50’ gondola was originally a Lindberg product?"
>
> No.  Revell.
>
>
> Ben Hom
>
>
>






Re: H30 in Service

Eric Hansmann
 

That looks great. 

What scale is this, Kevin?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On February 27, 2019 at 6:13 AM "csxt5555 via Groups.Io" <csxt5555@...> wrote:


Here is 1 of the 10 H30 kits I did earning its keep in sand service.

Enjoy
Kevin Sprayberry
Erwin Shops




H30 in Service

csxt5555
 

Here is 1 of the 10 H30 kits I did earning its keep in sand service.

Enjoy
Kevin Sprayberry
Erwin Shops


Re: Palace Poultry Car Color

gary laakso
 

The Catenary Video “Western Pacific” includes a short section of film taken on the streets of Oakland, California and the Palace Poultry Car is a very dark color, I assume black with the cage material a much lighter color.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 10:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Palace Poultry Car Color

 

>Maybe the folks in St. Louis can scratch through what little paint is left on the PPKX 5568 

Been there.  Done that.

Only thing for sure I could confirm from my hour with that car is that the underframe and trucks were once painted black with a white / light lettering, and the interior was once white with a dark gray / black lettering.  The car sides have a light powdery “chalky" residue. But I was unable to locate any "chips" of paint on the ends or sides.  Perhaps they have already collected such in the years since they got her in 1986, or can find such by removal of parts. 


Re: Palace Poultry Car Color

Tim Meyer
 

I have the builders photos for PPKX 5065. I have played around with putting green on the dark areas and then converting it back to black and white. I am thinking the dark color could be green.


Re: Palace Poultry Car Color

Jake Schaible
 

>Maybe the folks in St. Louis can scratch through what little paint is left on the PPKX 5568 

Been there.  Done that.

Only thing for sure I could confirm from my hour with that car is that the underframe and trucks were once painted black with a white / light lettering, and the interior was once white with a dark gray / black lettering.  The car sides have a light powdery “chalky" residue. But I was unable to locate any "chips" of paint on the ends or sides.  Perhaps they have already collected such in the years since they got her in 1986, or can find such by removal of parts. 


Re: Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

Richard Townsend
 

They do. A photo of the prototype, plus plans, are in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia, pages 236-37. The car in the photo is Erie 44000. It has drop doors.

Also, I need to correct myself regarding the Lindberg stock car. The article I referred to was in the January 1991 RMC, pages 86-87: "Build a Milwaukee Road stock car" by John Swanson.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Feb 26, 2019 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

I bought a pair of the Lindbergh gons several years ago. IIRC, they follow an Erie coal gondola prototype.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 6:48 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
>
> Dave North wrote:
> "I believe the Con Cor 50’ gondola was originally a Lindberg product?"
>
> No.  Revell.
>
>
> Ben Hom
>
>
>




Re: Palace Poultry Car Color

Dennis Storzek
 

Orthochromatic film would also explain this and it was still in use during the twenties. It did not capture yellow or orange well, rendering them a dark graytone. I've seen several Orthochromatic photos of Soo Line refers (which were the standard freight car red with orange sides) and they look completely FC red with no lettering other than the herald , which was white. The black lettering just blends into the sides, which look the same color as the ends. 

Dennis Storzek


Re: Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

jczzo126 CocuzzaT
 

The Revell / Concor gondola was also produced (first?) by Fleischmann, spelling probably not correct.  I have 2 of these, and 2 Revell's and 1 Concor, they are all identical as far as the body goes, but one of the Revell's and both Fleischmann's have metal  underframes with metal sprung trucks. One of the Fleischmann's came with solid metal trucks, unsprung, but with springs in the sideframes.


On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 8:14 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
I bought a pair of the Lindbergh gons several years ago. IIRC, they follow an Erie coal gondola prototype.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 6:48 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
>
> Dave North wrote:
> "I believe the Con Cor 50’ gondola was originally a Lindberg product?"
>
> No.  Revell.
>
>
> Ben Hom
>
>
>





Re: Palace Poultry Car Color

Steve SANDIFER
 

The whole idea of color is very difficult. I doubt that these cars were in passenger trains (brakes, trucks, etc), so Pullman Green does not appeal to me. I do have photos of them in freight trains coupled next to ATSF stock cars, and the tones of the cars are the same.

 

I have photos of LPTCo 257, 409, 475, 507, 683, 866, 1023, 1241, 1642, and 2146 all in service, and they appear pretty uniform in tone throughout.

My factory publicity photos of LPTCo 666, 677, 732, 1181, and 1566 all appear to be two tone.

This leads me to conjecture that advertising photos show the cars painted in at least two colors to emphasize the intricacy of construction, which would be difficult to see without contrasting paint. This is the same reason we see other types of freight cars in publicity photos in what appears to be unusual or reverse paint schemes.

 

Another example is my publicity photo of PPKX 5065 which has dark ends and messenger compartment while the cages and trusses are very light. The publicity photo of 5131  is the opposite with light ends, roof, sill, and messenger compartment while the interior is dark.  The first has white lettering, the second has black lettering. My in service photos of PPKX 5195 and 5559 show them to be uniformly painted in a neutral color so that the sill lettering is white and the name over the messenger door is a bit darker and hard to read. Special painting for publicity photos would explain this variation.

 

Could the cars have simply been some shade of box car red with white lettering and golden name over the door? Maybe the folks in St. Louis can scratch through what little paint is left on the PPKX 5568 and discover an original paint color. Of course there is that photo which has been circulated of the Pacific Wholesale Poultry car from Petaluma, CA. It appears to be MOW silver in that photo.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 4:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Palace Poultry Car Color

 

Here is a screen capture from Kristen’s PowerPoint, which shows several variations in Poultry Car paint schemes.

The two Poultry Palace cars show a light colored body, one has dark entry and ends, the other has light entry and ends.

 

Like Kristen, I have nothing beyond the John White quote about color.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 9:41 AM
To:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Palace Poultry Car Color

 

As you may know, no PPKX car is known to survive.  So there is a bit of debate on the exact color  (The sole cackle car existent is a Live Poultry Transport type at the StL MoT.)   

B&W images of PPKX cars (for example, google "PPKX 5065") show the scheme, but I'm not aware of any contemporaneous primary source that details the specific paint used on these cars.  "Home to Roost: The Story of Live Poultry Transit by Rail", by John H. White, Jr. (https://www.jstor.org/stable/3743735) mentions in passing the poultry cars being "yellow" but is unclear who's cars he was talking about and this comes after a passage about the LPT.  

So this may be a case where the best evidence may be old models.  

Ambroid introduced it's shake box kit of the PPKX car "Speedy" in 1961 and apprentice details that the "color scheme was white body, green ends, roof and doors, and black underframe." The car is reviewed in the September, 1961 issue of Model Railroader in the Trade Topics column (p 14) which added the lettering was also green for over the door, and white for the black side of the exposed underframe.  This car was later sold by Northeastern as kit #HS-4.  Some images on line suggest the modeler went with a kelly green, but I think this might be a mistake.  Remember these cars were often placed on express trains, so I have long had a hunch they were more an olive / harriman green to match the train.  

Having said that, I'm aware of an image at CSRM of a PPKX car (https://calisphere.org/item/044134bd1c9508696497bdda52a5359b/) where I would be hard pressed to prove the body was painted anything other than a single color, but does seem to confirm the lettering over the door is darker than the side and the lettering on the side frame is lighter.  

Sorry I could not be more helpful.  

Cheers,

Jake Schaible

 

 


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Rail Road Progress Hopper Kits

Benjamin Hom
 

Gary Roe asked:
"Was their kit 36L what became Eastern Car Works kit #5000?"

Same prototype (N&W Class H-2A). but completely different kits.  The Rail Road Progress kit was a styrene craftsman kit; the Eastern Car Works kit was an injection-molded kit.


Ben Hom


Re: Rail Road Progress kits question

Benjamin Hom
 

Jim King asked:
"There was a post on this group on Feb 20 re: an RRP 36L kit.  Which came first, Eastern Car Works or RRP?"

Rail Road Progress.


"Did 1 company buy out the other?  I can’t imagine there was sufficient market demand for 2 companies to tool the road-specific N&W H2/2a/3 about the same time."

The two kits were not related.  Rail Road Progress kits were essentially a styrene version of the classic Ambroid "box of sticks".  You got a small box containing pre-cut sides, slope sheets, hopper components, side posts, and detail parts less trucks, couplers, and decals.  There was no injection-molded tooling involved outside of the detail parts.  There's a photo of an unassembled Rail Road Progress kit on page 92 of Teichmoeller's PRR Open Hopper book.

The true value of the Rail Road Progress line was that the owner was one of the first to point out that there was tremendous variation in the hopper fleet, categorize them into similar types of cars, and offered craftsman kits to attempt to replicate this.  He did a self-published book, "Common Railroad Hopper Cars of the Northeast" to go with his product line.

The ECW model was an injection-molded kit.


"I’ve read that ECW simply “faded into the shadows” and, considering the crude parts by today’s standards, seriously doubt if they’d ever surface again."

The ECW was an odd mix of former E&B Valley tooling and original tooling for prototypes such as their depressed center flatcar and N&W H-2A.  Scuttlebutt was the owner was a long-haul truck driver who did the hobby business on the side. 

 
"Does anyone have a “Type 36H” to part with?  This is the [e]lusive N&W H-10.  Was it ever produced?"

Yes.  Jim Six built the Rail Road Progress N&W Class H-10 kits and documented it in the August and September 1989 issues of Model RailroaDING.  


Ben Hom








Re: Throwback Tuesday: The Lindberg Line

Eric Hansmann
 

I bought a pair of the Lindbergh gons several years ago. IIRC, they follow an Erie coal gondola prototype.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Feb 26, 2019, at 6:48 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Dave North wrote:
"I believe the Con Cor 50’ gondola was originally a Lindberg product?"

No. Revell.


Ben Hom