Date   

Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

James Brewer
 

According to my Evergreen Scale Models Styrene Handbook, their .060 converts to 5 1/4 HO inches.

Jim Brewer

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 1:45 PM Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:
A couple comments that date back to my pattern making days.

Don't scribe the side sheets. Build them of individual . 010 x .060 strip which can then be scraped to slightly different thicknesses, sanded to add grain, and the edges LIGHTLY chamfered to yield a hint of a groove. Best of all you can see what they will look like before they are cemented permanently to the subside.

The thinnest styrene strip, .010, is almost three times too thick for the flange of the Z bar that lays against the planks. If you use .015 thick strip and remove the .010 thick boards from the area, creating a .010 deep slot for the .015 thick flange. The resulting .005 step looks much more to scale.

As I recall sheathing bolts were 3/8", with nuts slightly under 1" square,  about .010 in HO. There are no NBW's made this small, anyway you don't want the washer. A scale size nut would fall through the common #80 hole. The easiest way to model these small square nuts is to make a square die for a rivet embossing tool and emboss them.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

Dennis Storzek
 

A couple comments that date back to my pattern making days.

Don't scribe the side sheets. Build them of individual . 010 x .060 strip which can then be scraped to slightly different thicknesses, sanded to add grain, and the edges LIGHTLY chamfered to yield a hint of a groove. Best of all you can see what they will look like before they are cemented permanently to the subside.

The thinnest styrene strip, .010, is almost three times too thick for the flange of the Z bar that lays against the planks. If you use .015 thick strip and remove the .010 thick boards from the area, creating a .010 deep slot for the .015 thick flange. The resulting .005 step looks much more to scale.

As I recall sheathing bolts were 3/8", with nuts slightly under 1" square,  about .010 in HO. There are no NBW's made this small, anyway you don't want the washer. A scale size nut would fall through the common #80 hole. The easiest way to model these small square nuts is to make a square die for a rivet embossing tool and emboss them.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Easy way to fold Yarmouth ladder styles.

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Tim. Since I wrote that article, I’ve made one addition to the process. I made the ladder jigs longer than necessary, and I decided it would be helpful to have a few supports that fit in the rung spacing  to support the ladder under construction as I slid it out of the jig to add the next rung. I used a miter box and saw to make two such supports by sawing off narrow strips across the bottom of the jig, and they help stabilize the ladder just as I hoped. They are especially useful when the bottom rung is at the very bottom of the stile.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2019 11:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Easy way to fold Yarmouth ladder styles.

 


excellent article, thanks!

On 3/2/2019 9:02 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Here’s what works for me.

 

http://blog.resincarworks.com/building-yarmouth-model-works-etched-brass-ladders/

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Wilson
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2019 7:27 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Easy way to fold Yarmouth ladder styles.

 

A lot of different tools to sort through on their site.  Can you supply a reference to this specific tool you're using?  I've got quite a pile of Yarmough cars awaiting assembly.

 

Craig Wilson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

 


Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

Bill Welch
 

For Fred and anyone wanting to do a Single Sheathed car, here is what I have done or suggest.

 

—Use .015 x .060 strip styrene to build up the side Board x Board on a base of at least .030 styrene sheeting. At 1/87 scale wood grain would be barely discernable so I drag the strip styrene over some 320 (or 220) grit sandpaper two or three times wiggling it as you drag it for variation. This is just enough texture and avoids being a caricature. Then mark one edge of the backside w/a Sharpie to make it easy to know which side has been textured. Next chamfer one edge of the sanded side by running a sharp blade along it a couple of times. This can be the edge you marked or the other edge but it needs to be consistent because the chamfered edge can be hard to see. By having one square edge butt against one chamfered edge a slight gap will be visible between each strip or board that I think replicates the subtle joint between the boards on the real thing.

—For the braces I would use three different sizes of styrene. For the pieces that are attached to the side, I would cut strips of 0.005-sheet styrene to the appropriate width. These strips once cut to length and appropriate angles should be glued down directly to the side using sparing amounts of Testors to avoid distorting the very thin 0.005 styrene. Next tack down .020 x .020 strip styrene onto either glass or a smooth piece of steel w/Testors. This will hold the .020 x .020 in place while .010 x .030 strip is glued against the .020 x .020. Allow this to cure overnight and peel it up with a singe edge razor blade. This assembly is then cut to the correct lengths and angles and is then glued down to the .005 pieces already on the car side to complete the Z-Bar.

—The small square fasteners are difficult and fiddly. Three suggestions:

1.)   Have them photo-etched—consult w/others about this method

2.)   Make them with .005 styrene

3.)   Ignore the fact that they are square and use round rivet shapes either from decals or harvested from styrene

DO NOT wait to solve the fasteners issue to begin the side pattern.

Back to the side: Using the .060 wide styrene may result in the portion on the side being slightly too tall: To compensate either the top plate or bottom plate can be slightly undersized.

On the attached photo note the fourth board from the top is slightly inset. It is .010 x .060. I did this to provide texture and I think it works. Next time I might have two boards like this spaced out. In order not to have the .005-styrene pieces that span this board distort there is .005-shim.

Bill Welch


Re: appears to be a box car with the side sheathing removed

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Jim and List members,
 
Thanks Jim for the detailed info on this car.
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2019 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] appears to be a box car with the side sheathing removed

This is an AT&SF Ga-Z car.  There were 400 built as tie cars by Haskell & Barber in 1915.  Numbered 110000-110399.  Originally the top of the sides were somewhat arched, but at some point in time they were modified to a straight piece.  Later used in pulpwood service.  See Hendrickson's Open Top Cars book.  The car in the photograph has the straight top but appears to be loaded with ties, following the system standard diagram for tie loading.

Jim Gates

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 3/1/19, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

Claus-I’d say it is a flat car with a purpose-built frame. Looks like the side members go into stake pockets. A stripped boxcar frame would have some diagonal members as the underframe would not be the only structural component on a box car and there would be no reason to remove it for this ervice. The end sill is another tipoff.
Charlie Vlk

Subject: [RealSTMFC] appears to be a box car with the side sheathing removed
Hi List Members, While browsing the Barriger collection, I can upon this interesting conveyance - it appears to be a box car with the side sheathing removed so it can conveniently carry railroad ties - do you all agree? https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12230813433/in/dateposted/ Claus
 Schlund _._,_._,_




Re: Throwback Thursday: Varney

Ken Adams
 

Ah the joys of X2F couplers. Early Kadee's were way too expensive for me as a teen modeler in the late 1950's.


Re: appears to be a box car with the side sheathing removed

Jim Gates
 

This is an AT&SF Ga-Z car. There were 400 built as tie cars by Haskell & Barber in 1915. Numbered 110000-110399. Originally the top of the sides were somewhat arched, but at some point in time they were modified to a straight piece. Later used in pulpwood service. See Hendrickson's Open Top Cars book. The car in the photograph has the straight top but appears to be loaded with ties, following the system standard diagram for tie loading.

Jim Gates

--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 3/1/19, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

Claus-I’d say it is a flat car with a purpose-built frame.  Looks like the side members go into stake pockets.  A stripped boxcar frame would have some diagonal members as the underframe would not be the only structural component on a box car and there would be no reason to remove it for this ervice.  The end sill is another tipoff.
Charlie Vlk

Subject: [RealSTMFC] appears to be a box car with the side sheathing removed
Hi List Members, While browsing the Barriger collection, I can upon this interesting conveyance - it appears to be a box car with the side sheathing removed so it can conveniently carry railroad ties - do you all agree? https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12230813433/in/dateposted/ Claus
Schlund _._,_._,_


Re: Easy way to fold Yarmouth ladder styles.

Tim O'Connor
 


excellent article, thanks!


On 3/2/2019 9:02 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Here’s what works for me.

 

http://blog.resincarworks.com/building-yarmouth-model-works-etched-brass-ladders/

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Wilson
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2019 7:27 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Easy way to fold Yarmouth ladder styles.

 

A lot of different tools to sort through on their site.  Can you supply a reference to this specific tool you're using?  I've got quite a pile of Yarmough cars awaiting assembly.

 

Craig Wilson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Easy way to fold Yarmouth ladder styles.

Tim O'Connor
 

Scott,

Those are nice tools. I think I bought mine (slightly different) from Pierre at one of the Lisle meets.

I also have a pair of Tamiya "bending pliers"



On 3/2/2019 12:04 AM, Scott wrote:
I got a "photo etch elbow bender" from UMM USA and it works great folding the styles.  I can fold one in less then a minute.  The bender goes past 90° so the stile ends up at 90° in a nice crisp fold.  It also works great for small stuff like roofwalk supports from Plano.  Thought I would share that as it really  takes the frustration out of folding them.

Scott McDonald

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Help me design a new Grab Iron Bending Jig

Craig Bisgeier
 

Gentlemen, thank you for all the ideas. I did not expect so much of a response! I have gotted a few very good ideas here (and a few sent to me privately) for some very simple jigs that might lend themselves to this task, including making drop grabs. I' will look further into it and if I come up with something I will let you all know!


Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

Andy Carlson
 

I have a technique which I have used for making Z-bars for Single sheathed cars. Using a NWSL riveter with a 0.010" riveter, I make a row of rivets the length of a styrene sheet. After that I slice off the styrene almost to the rivet strips. Next I slice the rivet strips from the mother sheet of styrene to nthe desired width. Then one can attach this flat strip of linear rivets to the car side. Then a 0.020" x 0.020" Evergreen styrene strip along the edge furthest from the rivets completes the Z-bar. I know that the boards were mounted with carriage bolts from the inside, with often a square nut on the visible nface. This is something I can live without. mI have a picture of one of the subject WP cars after rebuilding in 1937 into na 8 panel stock car. The Z-bars are done in my mentioned manner. This stock car was assembled by Tom Lawler a long time ago with a kit I made even longer ago.

As for scribing single sheathing, I have not scribed lines for decades. A new Exacto #11 blade run the full length at an even pressure (important). After this step, knock down the raised edges with something smooth. This is my method as I have disliked scribbed board spacings for since forever. You may like having those grooves, if so my method would not be your choice.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA






On Saturday, March 2, 2019, 6:01:52 AM PST, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:


Hi all,
Since there's no model or kit commercially available of WP's first (1916) Pullman-built box car -and there won't be in the near future I understand- I chose to try to build one myself.
Since I'm not afraid to rebuild, refine, DCC & paint brass engines or kitbash existing plastic or styrene models and kits, I thought; well let's give it a go.

First problem I encountered was scribing the styrene horizontally, to resemble the 5 1/4" T&G sheating.
For this I used various tools, obviously all not suited for making a clean gap: knife, sharpened dentist pick, 'scriber'.
So the question is; how do you make a clean cut in styrene without damaging the edges?

Second problem I encounterd was the Z-bracing.
The 3" bracing is not available in HO-scale, 5" is, but widht is too large.
So I decided to make my own from strip sryrene.
At least I thought I could, since gluing these tiny pieces together to form a Z-shape is only possible when you're a robot.
However, I succeeded to produce exactly one 3" Z-bar in half an hour.

But now the third issue came along: how to resemble the hundreds of 1/2" SQUARE thin head bolts that were used to slap this car together?
I'm aware Archer makes more or less the correct size, but these are dots, not squares.

If the above problems could be solved, I could try -again- to build this WP car.
For the moment I called it quits.

The 15001-series car ran (renumbered) untill the end of WP and is a 'landmark' WP car that's dearly missed in my WP collection.
I even have drawings of the unique run board saddles that could be replicated as brass etchings.
Hope the pros in this group can give me some how to advise, so I can build this car following the Pullman drawings.
Thank you for your assistance.

best regards
Fred Jansz


Re: Help me design a new Grab Iron Bending Jig

Craig Bisgeier
 

Charlie, part of what I'm thinking is that any jig to be 3D printed would have the advantage of being possible to print at any scale, so no one would be left out.


Re: Help me design a new Grab Iron Bending Jig

Craig Bisgeier
 

Nelson that's a good idea too, I'll look into it.


Re: Help me design a new Grab Iron Bending Jig

Craig Bisgeier
 

That's good too Eric, Thanks!


Re: Help me design a new Grab Iron Bending Jig

Craig Bisgeier
 

Thanks Jeff! That's a good idea.


Re: Easy way to fold Yarmouth ladder styles.

Scott
 

Forgot to add it folds them perfectly straight since it folds the entire length at the same time.  Also there isnt a need to go back and burnish it square or straight.

Scott McDonald


Re: Easy way to fold Yarmouth ladder styles.

Scott
 

This is the one I got.

http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/product_info.php?cPath=21_225&products_id=59

I have the photoetch tool from small shop as well.  The elbow bender is so much easier and faster.  Plus as I mentioned it isnt a one trick pony as it does really well with the little stuff too.

Scott McDonald


Re: Help me design a new Grab Iron Bending Jig

Craig Bisgeier
 

Hi Spen,

I'm intrigued by this, but I'm having a hard time picturing what you're describing. Any chance I could get you to make a sketch describing it?


Re: Mid 1950's Oscar Mayer Refrigerated Cars

Bryian Sones
 

Doug,
Thank you for the photos, modeling options and suggested reading material. Also, thank you to everyone else for your input too. I think I have enough info to represent some wood reefers. The challenge will be steel reefers, My first thought was to sacrifice some of my sunshine r-40-26 kits but after your comments about the differences with the URTX steel side car and it being a 37' car I will have to reconsider that option. I really dislike molded grab irons and ladders. No offense to those that do. Models with them certainly do serve a purpose in the hobby. I'm not sure the Accurail kit bash is worth the time for me but it is something to consider as a stand-in.

Kind regards,
        
Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA


On Saturday, March 2, 2019 6:29 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:


No, there are similarities, but also differences. Specifically the URTX cars is a 37’ meat reefer, the PFE is a 40’ car. Also notice the horizontal rivet seam on the URTX car, seen on other URTX cars. The plug door is shorter. The side sill has tabs in different locations.
 
Here is Tony Thompson’s blog on comparing an Accurail steel sided plug door reefer to the PRE R-40-26 http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2012/06/kitbashing-pfe-r-40-26.html
 
If you wanted a standin- the Accurail model could be used. But it is a 40’ car. I don’t know of any 37’ steel meat reefer models. The Walther’s 40’ cars, are produce reefers, not meat reefers, despite Walthers lettering them for meat packers.
 
 
Doug  Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bryian Sones via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 1:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Mid 1950's Oscar Mayer Refrigerated Cars
 
Doug, 
 
The photo of the RSM URTX 66215, is this the same car as the PFE R-40-26?
 
Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA
 
On Friday, March 1, 2019 8:56 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:
 
I think Bruce got several emails crossed. The Rapido reefer is fine for Oscar Mayer.  It needs sidesill modes for swift.  
Brian J. Carlson 

On Mar 1, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Bryain,
 
Nope... it's a 37' kit bash starting with the 40' Accurail wood reefer.
 
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bryian Sones via Groups.Io <bryian.sones@...>
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2019 4:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Mid 1950's Oscar Mayer Refrigerated Cars
 
Thanks Bruce, is the Rapido 37' reefer a good representation of a URTX  leased to Oscar Mayer or Swift
or should I just start with a Lifelike car?
 
Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA
 
On Friday, March 1, 2019 8:52 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
 
Bryian,
 
Check out the Shake n’ Take project from a few years ago ;)
 
Regards
Bruce
 
Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
 
 


On Mar 1, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Bryian Sones via Groups.Io <bryian.sones@...> wrote:
 
Hi All,
 
I'm looking to start a build project to model refrigerated cars that wore the Oscar Mayer Paint schemes in the mid 1950's
I would like to get your input on the following:
 
  • Sources for reference material
  • Photos
  • Accurate models or good starting point suggestions.
 
Thank You,
 
Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA
 
 
 



Ladder Attachments on a Santa Fe Reefer

gary laakso
 

 

This is a very revealing picture of how ladders were attached to a steel refrigerator car and note now the ladder curves into the bottom of the car:

 

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1944-California-First-Roll/i-Ljp2WZK/A 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock