Date   

Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Such vessels, including the shell for the “gadget”, were to contain the explosive force of the conventional explosives (TNT, whatever, used to compress the nuclear core material) … should the expected atomic reaction NOT take place. Once the real nuclear reaction actually occurs everything nearby is VAPORIZED. There’s no containing it.

I agree that the pictured item is a strange vessel, but it’s true structure cannot be seen here. We only see one side of it. There’s some kind of shell surrounding the vessel that does not look like it’s part of the actual device. A shipping jacket? Note that it’s being prepared to ROLL off the flatcar. The jacket protects the actual vessel during the roll. The bolted “cap” on the left side is mostly a lifting lug, so I expect that would be replaced with a different one when the device was assembled for use.

Whatever, it’s NOT a power reactor, so may not have needed any external cooling loop. LOTS of small reactors just operated in a big water bath. There were also lots of non-critical reactions to be studied.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Mar 11, 2019, at 9:35 AM, Bill Daniels via Groups.Io <billinsf@...> wrote:

Actually, Dan, there WAS a vessel designed and built to contain a nuclear bomb... strange as it may seem. Frankly, when I first read about it, I didn’t think it would work, and apparently it was never tested. It was written up a few years ago, when a lot of information from the Manhattan Project was declassified. It was designed to withstand the pressure of the explosion, however I believe that the extreme temperature of even the small yield A-Bomb of the day combined with the pressure would have overwhelmed the “containment” vessel. This photo may well have been of it. Additionally It does not look like any of the reactor vessels I am familiar with... there are no inlet and outlets for the primary coolant.

Bill Daniels
San Anselmo, California


On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:22 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Whatever it is, it’s NOT “the gadget”, the first A-bomb. It’s too large, and altogether the wrong shape. It looks like a pressure vessel, possibly a reactor containment vessel. "The Gadget” was assembled at Los Alamos, and detonated nearby. There are photos of it being hauled around by truck. The shell of it may have been shipped in by rail, but THIS is not that. There’s not much point in putting a pressure vessel around an A-bomb. Does it say WHERE the photo was taken. Hanford, WA, maybe?

As for nuclear bombs, they have to be moved "somehow”. Nobody but the government knows for sure. For years it’s been assumed the infamous “DOD white train” is used for this … nowadays mostly hauling ICBMs and warheads about. There are a lot fewer of them today than at the peak of the cold war. The missiles are also much smaller. 

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Mar 11, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

   Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine

  






Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Thanks, Don for that clarification. It makes more sense than a containment vessel for the explosion.

Bill

On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:41 AM, Don Burn <burn@...> wrote:

Bill,

Actually the container was designed to retain the nuclear material if the regular explosive went off but the bomb did not detonate. My father was a military officer assigned to the project, so I have read a lot of about the effort.

Don Burn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Daniels via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:36 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar

Actually, Dan, there WAS a vessel designed and built to contain a nuclear bomb... strange as it may seem. Frankly, when I first read about it, I didn’t think it would work, and apparently it was never tested. It was written up a few years ago, when a lot of information from the Manhattan Project was declassified. It was designed to withstand the pressure of the explosion, however I believe that the extreme temperature of even the small yield A-Bomb of the day combined with the pressure would have overwhelmed the “containment” vessel. This photo may well have been of it. Additionally It does not look like any of the reactor vessels I am familiar with... there are no inlet and outlets for the primary coolant.

Bill Daniels
San Anselmo, California



On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:22 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@... <mailto:danmitch@...> > wrote:



Whatever it is, it’s NOT “the gadget”, the first A-bomb. It’s too large, and altogether the wrong shape. It looks like a pressure vessel, possibly a reactor containment vessel. "The Gadget” was assembled at Los Alamos, and detonated nearby. There are photos of it being hauled around by truck. The shell of it may have been shipped in by rail, but THIS is not that. There’s not much point in putting a pressure vessel around an A-bomb. Does it say WHERE the photo was taken. Hanford, WA, maybe?

As for nuclear bombs, they have to be moved "somehow”. Nobody but the government knows for sure. For years it’s been assumed the infamous “DOD white train” is used for this … nowadays mostly hauling ICBMs and warheads about. There are a lot fewer of them today than at the peak of the cold war. The missiles are also much smaller.

Dan Mitchell
==========


On Mar 11, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@... <mailto:riverman_vt@...> > wrote:

Hi folks,

Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine





<https://www.history-a2z.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/88912/c2d1e97a969b5788b99e55499d81fff7_fcb10f1d502cc09de6c1cab9f428f18e_Trinity_15184771366633.jpg>







Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Jeff
 

That's Jumbo, a large metal casing (214 tons) that was designed to hold the Gadget. The idea was that if the TNT exploded but the plutonium didn't, it would contain the explosion and no plutonium would be lost.

They didn't use it, but it survived intact 800 yards from the detonation. They later blew the ends off with eight 500lb bombs. I've been to Trinity, it is still there.


On Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 06:22 Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:
Whatever it is, it’s NOT “the gadget”, the first A-bomb. It’s too large, and altogether the wrong shape. It looks like a pressure vessel, possibly a reactor containment vessel. "The Gadget” was assembled at Los Alamos, and detonated nearby. There are photos of it being hauled around by truck. The shell of it may have been shipped in by rail, but THIS is not that. There’s not much point in putting a pressure vessel around an A-bomb. Does it say WHERE the photo was taken. Hanford, WA, maybe?

As for nuclear bombs, they have to be moved "somehow”. Nobody but the government knows for sure. For years it’s been assumed the infamous “DOD white train” is used for this … nowadays mostly hauling ICBMs and warheads about. There are a lot fewer of them today than at the peak of the cold war. The missiles are also much smaller. 

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Mar 11, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

   Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine

  





Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Don Burn
 

Bill,

Actually the container was designed to retain the nuclear material if the regular explosive went off but the bomb did not detonate. My father was a military officer assigned to the project, so I have read a lot of about the effort.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Daniels via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:36 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar

Actually, Dan, there WAS a vessel designed and built to contain a nuclear bomb... strange as it may seem. Frankly, when I first read about it, I didn’t think it would work, and apparently it was never tested. It was written up a few years ago, when a lot of information from the Manhattan Project was declassified. It was designed to withstand the pressure of the explosion, however I believe that the extreme temperature of even the small yield A-Bomb of the day combined with the pressure would have overwhelmed the “containment” vessel. This photo may well have been of it. Additionally It does not look like any of the reactor vessels I am familiar with... there are no inlet and outlets for the primary coolant.

Bill Daniels
San Anselmo, California



On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:22 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@... <mailto:danmitch@...> > wrote:



Whatever it is, it’s NOT “the gadget”, the first A-bomb. It’s too large, and altogether the wrong shape. It looks like a pressure vessel, possibly a reactor containment vessel. "The Gadget” was assembled at Los Alamos, and detonated nearby. There are photos of it being hauled around by truck. The shell of it may have been shipped in by rail, but THIS is not that. There’s not much point in putting a pressure vessel around an A-bomb. Does it say WHERE the photo was taken. Hanford, WA, maybe?

As for nuclear bombs, they have to be moved "somehow”. Nobody but the government knows for sure. For years it’s been assumed the infamous “DOD white train” is used for this … nowadays mostly hauling ICBMs and warheads about. There are a lot fewer of them today than at the peak of the cold war. The missiles are also much smaller.

Dan Mitchell
==========


On Mar 11, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@... <mailto:riverman_vt@...> > wrote:

Hi folks,

Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine





<https://www.history-a2z.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/88912/c2d1e97a969b5788b99e55499d81fff7_fcb10f1d502cc09de6c1cab9f428f18e_Trinity_15184771366633.jpg>


Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Actually, Dan, there WAS a vessel designed and built to contain a nuclear bomb... strange as it may seem. Frankly, when I first read about it, I didn’t think it would work, and apparently it was never tested. It was written up a few years ago, when a lot of information from the Manhattan Project was declassified. It was designed to withstand the pressure of the explosion, however I believe that the extreme temperature of even the small yield A-Bomb of the day combined with the pressure would have overwhelmed the “containment” vessel. This photo may well have been of it. Additionally It does not look like any of the reactor vessels I am familiar with... there are no inlet and outlets for the primary coolant.

Bill Daniels
San Anselmo, California


On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:22 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Whatever it is, it’s NOT “the gadget”, the first A-bomb. It’s too large, and altogether the wrong shape. It looks like a pressure vessel, possibly a reactor containment vessel. "The Gadget” was assembled at Los Alamos, and detonated nearby. There are photos of it being hauled around by truck. The shell of it may have been shipped in by rail, but THIS is not that. There’s not much point in putting a pressure vessel around an A-bomb. Does it say WHERE the photo was taken. Hanford, WA, maybe?

As for nuclear bombs, they have to be moved "somehow”. Nobody but the government knows for sure. For years it’s been assumed the infamous “DOD white train” is used for this … nowadays mostly hauling ICBMs and warheads about. There are a lot fewer of them today than at the peak of the cold war. The missiles are also much smaller. 

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Mar 11, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

   Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine

  





Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Whatever it is, it’s NOT “the gadget”, the first A-bomb. It’s too large, and altogether the wrong shape. It looks like a pressure vessel, possibly a reactor containment vessel. "The Gadget” was assembled at Los Alamos, and detonated nearby. There are photos of it being hauled around by truck. The shell of it may have been shipped in by rail, but THIS is not that. There’s not much point in putting a pressure vessel around an A-bomb. Does it say WHERE the photo was taken. Hanford, WA, maybe?

As for nuclear bombs, they have to be moved "somehow”. Nobody but the government knows for sure. For years it’s been assumed the infamous “DOD white train” is used for this … nowadays mostly hauling ICBMs and warheads about. There are a lot fewer of them today than at the peak of the cold war. The missiles are also much smaller. 

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Mar 11, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

   Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine

  





Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942

Craig Bisgeier
 

Claus, Thanks in particular for the photo of the string of 28' UP Boxcars. This is very helpful to me!

Craig Bisgeier


Unidentified deep well flatcar

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi folks,

   Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine

  




Accurail gondola upgrade

Eric Hansmann
 

Clark Propst shares his work on an Accurail HO scale gondola kit in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. He adds a few simple details inspired by a C&NW prototype.  

http://blog.resincarworks.com/cnw-gondola-upgrades/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Interesting shots, Claus... one of the most interesting to me was the 7th (I think) shot down from the top which shows a small box on the ground alongside the car... it is a wooden 8x10 field camera folded up (similar to a Deardorff camera). The leather bags on top of it probably hold the film holders for the camera.

Bill Daniels 
San Anselmo, CA


On Sunday, March 10, 2019, 11:59:18 AM PDT, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:


Morning All:

There are several photos in this post that I would like to copy or purchase for my own modeling efforts.  In particular they ae for the UP 50 door and a half car.  I had posted a question on this list concerning this car about a. month ago but had no luck.

Appreciate any help:

Billl Pardie
On Mar 10, 2019, at 3:56 AM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Claus:
 
A great selection, thank you very much for sharing!  The CN stock car is exotic, see last picture, along with the Fox trucks shown under a UP stock car in picture #9.  I like the view of the horizontal floor support I-bar under the steel single sheathed UP 50 foot boxcar shown in pictures #7 and 8.
 
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 6:08 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942
 
Hi List Members,
 
Some might enjoy these steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942.
 
Enjoy!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Claus Schlund
 



Re: ICC Val Survey Equipment records

Eric Lombard
 

Hello Earl...

You can obtain the complete scanned set from Allen Stanley's Railroad Data Exchange.

He writes: "I run a labor of love called The Railroad Data Exchange with the end goal of preserving copies of diagrams and other railroad issued paper from private collections. I have scans of hundreds of diagram books of mostly steam locos, but others of freight and passenger cars, track charts, some paint diagrams and all kinds of other documents. I charge nothing for what I have. To get something is simple- send me something in return. If you have nothing to trade and have a legitimate need I'll be glad to talk about it. My goal is to preserve copies of this stuff and help others use it to produce good things. A list can be had be asking. It will come as an Excel file or something else if need be. My e-mail address is raildata@..."


On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 1:01 PM Earl Tuson <etuson@...> wrote:
In the early 1990’s, William Edson offered photocopied booklets of the equipment listings compiled during
the ICC Valuation Surveys.  Does anyone have his booklets S-1 (Maine railroads) and S-5 (CT & RI
railroads) that they would be willing to share?  I can offer S-2, S-3, and S-4 in return.  These cover the
B&M, MEC, and MA, NH, & VT shortlines.

Earl Tuson




Re: Vanderbilt Tank Car

Steve Wolcott
 

Let me try the attachments again.
Steve Wolcott


Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Morning All:

There are several photos in this post that I would like to copy or purchase for my own modeling efforts.  In particular they ae for the UP 50 door and a half car.  I had posted a question on this list concerning this car about a. month ago but had no luck.

Appreciate any help:

Billl Pardie

On Mar 10, 2019, at 3:56 AM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Claus:
 
A great selection, thank you very much for sharing!  The CN stock car is exotic, see last picture, along with the Fox trucks shown under a UP stock car in picture #9.  I like the view of the horizontal floor support I-bar under the steel single sheathed UP 50 foot boxcar shown in pictures #7 and 8.
 
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 6:08 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942
 
Hi List Members,
 
Some might enjoy these steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942.
 
Enjoy!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Claus Schlund
 



Re: Vanderbilt Tank Car

Gary Ray
 

Hi Steve,

I didn’t get the attachment.  Would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Gary Ray~ Modeling SP in 1926

Magalia, CA

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Wolcott
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 8:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vanderbilt Tank Car

 

Thanks for the additional information and the help with the photo.  The article is the the June, 1954 issue of "Model Trains", attached.  
Steve Wolcott


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: ICC Val Survey Equipment records

Chuck Cover
 

Thanks Dick. I'll email Steve.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Earl
Tuson
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 12:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ICC Val Survey Equipment records

In the early 1990's, William Edson offered photocopied booklets of the
equipment listings compiled during the ICC Valuation Surveys. Does anyone
have his booklets S-1 (Maine railroads) and S-5 (CT & RI
railroads) that they would be willing to share? I can offer S-2, S-3, and
S-4 in return. These cover the B&M, MEC, and MA, NH, & VT shortlines.

Earl Tuson


ICC Val Survey Equipment records

Earl Tuson
 

In the early 1990’s, William Edson offered photocopied booklets of the equipment listings compiled during
the ICC Valuation Surveys. Does anyone have his booklets S-1 (Maine railroads) and S-5 (CT & RI
railroads) that they would be willing to share? I can offer S-2, S-3, and S-4 in return. These cover the
B&M, MEC, and MA, NH, & VT shortlines.

Earl Tuson


Re: Terry Wegmann R-40-18 and 19 kits

Pierre Oliver
 

On Mar 10, 2019, at 12:45 PM, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

Hello-

I have decided to offer my last black Hardware Wegmann R-30-18 HO styrene kit. This has the Equipco fan.

Offered for $44.00 which includes shipping to the US. If interested, contact me off-list at <midcentury@...> I accept checks and money orders. With a small fee, PayPal is welcomed.

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Terry Wegmann R-40-18 and 19 kits

Andy Carlson
 

Hello-

I have decided to offer my last black Hardware Wegmann R-30-18 HO styrene kit. This has the Equipco fan.

Offered for $44.00 which includes shipping to the US. If interested, contact me off-list at <midcentury@...> I accept checks and money orders. With a small fee, PayPal is welcomed.

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Vanderbilt Tank Car

Steve Wolcott
 

Thanks for the additional information and the help with the photo.  The article is the the June, 1954 issue of "Model Trains", attached.  
Steve Wolcott


Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942

mopacfirst
 

Isn't this car a prototype for one of the earliest Westerfield kits, as we were discussing not too long ago?

Ron Merrick

31941 - 31960 of 194713