Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
They were going to explode the gadget inside that so if it were a dud, they could recover the hideously valuable plutonium.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks! Brian Ehni (Sent from my iPhone)
On Mar 11, 2019, at 8:22 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
IIRC Newport News.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks! Brian Ehni (Sent from my iPhone)
On Mar 11, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Stic Harris
Some more information and pictures (including a steam era freight car). : )
On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 12:18 PM John Moore via Groups.Io <okladivjohn=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
--
- Stic
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
John Moore
The photo was taken at Pope, New Mexico, during the unloading of Jumbo. Pope is on the Santa Fe line from Albuquerque to El Paso. okladivjohn@...
|
|
Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Hi Craig and List Members,
Craig, you are refering to this image I
believe...
I
like the fact that one can zoom in a whole lot for some very nice detail
viewing.
Note
in the above image the roundhouse, with the locomotives all positioned with the
front facing toward the turntable. We mostly see these views with the front of
the locomotive facing AWAY from the turntable... I wonder if this was normal
practice or was done for the benefit of the photograph.
Claus Schlund
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Paul Doggett
First A bomb
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Paul Doggett England 🏴
On 11 Mar 2019, at 14:54, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
|
|
Station reports (was UP 175288 in 1938 - emigrants)
Earl Tuson
Tony responded to Tim:
> I haven't got a clue what that could possibly mean, but I'm more curious about the document itself...and so does the _AAR Accounting Rules_ book. Here’s a sample CT100 from the Suncook Valley Railroad: http://suncookvalleyrailroad.redmansefarm.com/FreightDocs/SVFormCT100.jpg Too bad I don’t have a stack of them filled out! Earl Tuson
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
I think this is a photo from Hannaford, Washington, and not from Los Alamos. It's probably a reactor vessel of some kind.
On 3/11/2019 8:17 AM, Donald B.
Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi folks, --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Makes sense. It’s not the gadget, and there’s no containing the actual nuclear explosion IF it occurs].
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Dan Mitchell ==========
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Such vessels, including the shell for the “gadget”, were to contain the explosive force of the conventional explosives (TNT, whatever, used to compress the nuclear core material) … should the expected atomic reaction NOT take place. Once the real nuclear reaction actually occurs everything nearby is VAPORIZED. There’s no containing it.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I agree that the pictured item is a strange vessel, but it’s true structure cannot be seen here. We only see one side of it. There’s some kind of shell surrounding the vessel that does not look like it’s part of the actual device. A shipping jacket? Note that it’s being prepared to ROLL off the flatcar. The jacket protects the actual vessel during the roll. The bolted “cap” on the left side is mostly a lifting lug, so I expect that would be replaced with a different one when the device was assembled for use. Whatever, it’s NOT a power reactor, so may not have needed any external cooling loop. LOTS of small reactors just operated in a big water bath. There were also lots of non-critical reactions to be studied. Dan Mitchell ==========
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
Thanks, Don for that clarification. It makes more sense than a containment vessel for the explosion.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Bill
On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:41 AM, Don Burn <burn@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Jeff
That's Jumbo, a large metal casing (214 tons) that was designed to hold the Gadget. The idea was that if the TNT exploded but the plutonium didn't, it would contain the explosion and no plutonium would be lost. They didn't use it, but it survived intact 800 yards from the detonation. They later blew the ends off with eight 500lb bombs. I've been to Trinity, it is still there.
On Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 06:22 Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Don Burn
Bill,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Actually the container was designed to retain the nuclear material if the regular explosive went off but the bomb did not detonate. My father was a military officer assigned to the project, so I have read a lot of about the effort. Don Burn
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Daniels via Groups.Io Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:36 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar Actually, Dan, there WAS a vessel designed and built to contain a nuclear bomb... strange as it may seem. Frankly, when I first read about it, I didn’t think it would work, and apparently it was never tested. It was written up a few years ago, when a lot of information from the Manhattan Project was declassified. It was designed to withstand the pressure of the explosion, however I believe that the extreme temperature of even the small yield A-Bomb of the day combined with the pressure would have overwhelmed the “containment” vessel. This photo may well have been of it. Additionally It does not look like any of the reactor vessels I am familiar with... there are no inlet and outlets for the primary coolant. Bill Daniels San Anselmo, California On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:22 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@... <mailto:danmitch@...> > wrote: Whatever it is, it’s NOT “the gadget”, the first A-bomb. It’s too large, and altogether the wrong shape. It looks like a pressure vessel, possibly a reactor containment vessel. "The Gadget” was assembled at Los Alamos, and detonated nearby. There are photos of it being hauled around by truck. The shell of it may have been shipped in by rail, but THIS is not that. There’s not much point in putting a pressure vessel around an A-bomb. Does it say WHERE the photo was taken. Hanford, WA, maybe? As for nuclear bombs, they have to be moved "somehow”. Nobody but the government knows for sure. For years it’s been assumed the infamous “DOD white train” is used for this … nowadays mostly hauling ICBMs and warheads about. There are a lot fewer of them today than at the peak of the cold war. The missiles are also much smaller. Dan Mitchell ========== On Mar 11, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@... <mailto:riverman_vt@...> > wrote: Hi folks, Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed! Cordially, Don Valentine <https://www.history-a2z.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/88912/c2d1e97a969b5788b99e55499d81fff7_fcb10f1d502cc09de6c1cab9f428f18e_Trinity_15184771366633.jpg>
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
Actually, Dan, there WAS a vessel designed and built to contain a nuclear bomb... strange as it may seem. Frankly, when I first read about it, I didn’t think it would work, and apparently it was never tested. It was written up a few years ago, when a lot of information from the Manhattan Project was declassified. It was designed to withstand the pressure of the explosion, however I believe that the extreme temperature of even the small yield A-Bomb of the day combined with the pressure would have overwhelmed the “containment” vessel. This photo may well have been of it. Additionally It does not look like any of the reactor vessels I am familiar with... there are no inlet and outlets for the primary coolant.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Bill Daniels San Anselmo, California
On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:22 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar
Whatever it is, it’s NOT “the gadget”, the first A-bomb. It’s too large, and altogether the wrong shape. It looks like a pressure vessel, possibly a reactor containment vessel. "The Gadget” was assembled at Los Alamos, and detonated nearby. There are photos of it being hauled around by truck. The shell of it may have been shipped in by rail, but THIS is not that. There’s not much point in putting a pressure vessel around an A-bomb. Does it say WHERE the photo was taken. Hanford, WA, maybe?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
As for nuclear bombs, they have to be moved "somehow”. Nobody but the government knows for sure. For years it’s been assumed the infamous “DOD white train” is used for this … nowadays mostly hauling ICBMs and warheads about. There are a lot fewer of them today than at the peak of the cold war. The missiles are also much smaller. Dan Mitchell ==========
|
|
Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942
Craig Bisgeier
Claus, Thanks in particular for the photo of the string of 28' UP Boxcars. This is very helpful to me!
Craig Bisgeier
|
|
Unidentified deep well flatcar
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
Hi folks,
Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed! Cordially, Don Valentine ![]()
|
|
Accurail gondola upgrade
Eric Hansmann
Clark Propst shares his work on an Accurail HO scale gondola kit in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. He adds a few simple details inspired by a C&NW prototype. http://blog.resincarworks.com/cnw-gondola-upgrades/ Eric Hansmann
|
|
Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942
Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
Interesting shots, Claus... one of the most interesting to me was the 7th (I think) shot down from the top which shows a small box on the ground alongside the car... it is a wooden 8x10 field camera folded up (similar to a Deardorff camera). The leather bags on top of it probably hold the film holders for the camera. Bill Daniels San Anselmo, CA
On Sunday, March 10, 2019, 11:59:18 AM PDT, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:
Morning All: There are several photos in this post that I would like to copy or purchase for my own modeling efforts. In particular they ae for the UP 50 door and a half car. I had posted a question on this list concerning this car about a. month ago but had no luck. Appreciate any help: Billl Pardie
|
|
Re: ICC Val Survey Equipment records
Hello Earl... You can obtain the complete scanned set from Allen Stanley's Railroad Data Exchange. He writes: "I run a labor of love called The Railroad Data Exchange with the end goal of preserving copies of diagrams and other railroad issued paper from private collections. I have scans of hundreds of diagram books of mostly steam locos, but others of freight and passenger cars, track charts, some paint diagrams and all kinds of other documents. I charge nothing for what I have. To get something is simple- send me something in return. If you have nothing to trade and have a legitimate need I'll be glad to talk about it. My goal is to preserve copies of this stuff and help others use it to produce good things. A list can be had be asking. It will come as an Excel file or something else if need be. My e-mail address is raildata@..."
On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 1:01 PM Earl Tuson <etuson@...> wrote: In the early 1990’s, William Edson offered photocopied booklets of the equipment listings compiled during
|
|