Date   

Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

 

Here are two more photos about CISX 500.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "BRIAN PAUL EHNI via Groups.Io" <bpehni@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, March 11, 2019 at 1:35 PM
To: <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar

 

That’s right; I was wrong about Newport News. 

Thanks!

Brian Ehni 

(Sent from my iPhone)


On Mar 11, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:

CISX 500, a 250 ton car owned by Carnegie-Illinois Steel Co. And yes, that's Jumbo.
We discussed this a few years back. Check the archives.
Jack Mullen


Re: C&O six-axle heavy duty flat

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

These came the same time as the deep-well 6-axle flats.  I believe I sent my C&O flat cars binders with photos down to Clifton Forge.  Al Kresse

On March 11, 2019 at 10:25 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Claus

I found that image in the Google LIFE magazine collection about 10 years ago. There are quite a
few wonderful railroad (and general steam era) images in the collection.

Tim O'




On 3/11/2019 7:01 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) wrote:
Hi List members,
 
Nice image of a C&O six-axle heavy duty flat in what is clearly the steam era on the Canadian National.
 
 
Claus Schlund


 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


 


Re: BLI Tank Cars - Other prototypes?

Randy Hammill
 

Oh, that's right. They are similar, but have a different dome/bonnet and they are jacketed. Darn.

Well, I'll still find something to do with these cars, and I'll have to beg Frank to run some more!

Thanks - 

Randy

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:blog.newbritainstation.com


Re: C&O six-axle heavy duty flat

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Not sure now but the C&O may have swapped some six-axle flats with the NYC.

On March 11, 2019 at 8:41 PM Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Claus,

I wish we could see the whole number. In 1958, C&O had eight well flat cars. Cars numbered 80975 and 80977-80979 were 52' 8" overall. Cars 80996-80999 were 62' 6" overall. Both groups rode on 6 -wheel trucks and had a capacity of 250,000 pounds.

These cars are not shown in Carl Shaver's FREIGHT CAR EQUIPMENT OF THE CHESAPEAKE & OHIO RAILWAY, AUGUST 1, 1937 (revised ed., 1989). When they were built is a mystery, but the photo in question is dated 1951.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 3/11/19 7:01 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) wrote:
Hi List members,
 
Nice image of a C&O six-axle heavy duty flat in what is clearly the steam era on the Canadian National.
 
 
Claus Schlund


 


 


A photo sent to me by a friend

Paul Doggett
 

This photo was sent by a friend in Louisiana, it may be of interest to the group it is New Orleans we have no date.

Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942

David Allen
 

Mark Amfahr has a fine article in the UPHS magazine:

Amfahr, Mark. "Union Pacific's Overland Route: The First 20 Years of Operation." Streamliner v33n1.
The picture in question is included; the caption states that U denotes Union Division, K denotes Kansas division and (I guess) J denotes the CC.

Dave Allen


Re: Private Name SS Box Car 1536

Jim Betz
 

Lester,
  Thanks for your excellent blog post on the work you did on this great car.  I have
the following questions/comments:

  1) Why use PBW wire instead of the more typical use of simple brass wire?  Do
      you find it easier to use (such as bends better)?
  2) Why no cut levers?  Or brake hoses (I understand that some guys answer -
      because a train without the hoses connected looks wrong - just want to 
      know your answer).
  3) When will you apply the weathering and will the blog be updated with that
       info when you do - if so please let us know.
                                                                                                   - Jim B.


Re: Private Name SS Box Car 1536

O Fenton Wells
 

Very nice Lester, thanks for sharing
Fenton

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 9:09 AM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:
I finished converting a plastic single-sheathed  box car incorrect for the Soo Line box car it was lettered for into a private name home road box car.   The writeup includes a few tips on lettering removal, milling running boards, and weathering.  Photos and writeup of building and finishing  Minneapolis & Northland SS Box Car 1536 are now on my blog I started to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following:
 
 
Lester Breuer

 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Varney Metal Freight Car Kits

 

Having sold  all of my rolling stock to build a new kitchen, upon moving too Tucson I had the opportunity to build my first layout in 40 years.  I purchased cheap cars at a swap meet, including Roundhouse all metal cars and Athearn stamped metal and wood cars, the same as I built when I was 14, over 60 years ago – Al Westerfield.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Benjamin Hom
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 4:35 AM
To: STMFC
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Tuesday: Varney Metal Freight Car Kits

 

Varney freight car ad, January 1954 issue of Model Railroader. 





Ben Hom

 


Private Name SS Box Car 1536

Lester Breuer
 

I finished converting a plastic single-sheathed  box car incorrect for the Soo Line box car it was lettered for into a private name home road box car.   The writeup includes a few tips on lettering removal, milling running boards, and weathering.  Photos and writeup of building and finishing  Minneapolis & Northland SS Box Car 1536 are now on my blog I started to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following:
 
http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/
 
Lester Breuer

 


Re: MILW Series 18000-21187 Series Rib Sides

Nelson Moyer
 

Pierre has photos on the web site of the stile frets next to an HO scale rule, so you can measure the stile, gauge the rung spacing, and determine rung position relative to your model. Of the eight rung ladders, YMW-301 and YMW-303 place the bottom rung at the very bottom  of the stile. YMW-306 has space above and below the bottom and top rungs as required for the rib side mounts, but the rib side mounts require an 11 foot stile, and the YMW-306 stile is only 10.5 ft. long. The DA ladder would probably be too short, but that would depend upon how much stile extends above and below the top and bottom rung. Can the DA 8 rung ladder stiles be trimmed to 11 feet?  Schuyler suggested I call Intermountain, so I’ll do that today.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] MILW Series 18000-21187 Series Rib Sides

 


DA ladders were made for 10-6 tall cars. Des Plaines Hobbies sold 8 rung ladders for 10-0 cars.
CMA associates also sold 8 rung ladders (with the Canadian stirrup) but they're not as finely detailed.
And Red Caboose had 8 rung ladders for 10-6 cars too.

Are all of the Yarmouth ladders for 10-0 cars?? If true, that's very distressing to hear!

Tim O'Connor

On 3/11/2019 11:02 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

I started building Sunshine 41.1 and 41.3 last night, and I ran into a problem with the side ladders. Kit instructions tell me to add a rung to the seven rung ladders supplied, but the stiles area too short to extend from the bottom mounting location to the top mounting location (11 scale feet) on the sides, so adding a rung isn’t going to work. I checked YMW ladder stiles, and the longest one that might have worked is YMW-306, which has 10 scale foot stiles. Other than scratchbuilding ladders, what are other’s using for this car? Does the Detail Associates eight rung ladder  (229-6241 work? Prototype photos of these cars show the bottom and top rung are approximately eight inches from the end of the stile, so stiles with a rung at the very bottom or top of the stiles aren’t prototypically correct. I checked Intermountain parts, and they don’t list the eight rung ladder for their rib side car as a separate part.

 

Next issue, the kit instructions tell me to paint the car Milwaukee freight car red on all surfaces including truck side frames, however I have a photo dated 1940 of MILW 19174 clearly showing an unpainted roof and wood running board. Did they or did they not paint roofs on this car series?

 

Nelson Moyer


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Colorado Fuel and Iron Company

Jerry Michels
 

The two boxcars at the lower left are F&CC.

Jerry Michels


Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Supposedly the car was CISX 500, a 250 ton car owned by Carnegie-Illinois Steel Co. It is listed in the 1942 ORER. It may well have been modified for this important load. Actually, all  such cars were often modified for the special loads they carried.

Photos of CISX 500 can be found on the internet, and it does look remarkably similar to Jumbo’s flatcar.

Dan Mitchell
==========

 


On Mar 11, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Don,

I'm not sure where the CIA story comes from, but this particular photo has been available and in the public domain in excess of FIFTY YEARS!  😉

That said, there has also been a tremendous amount of speculation on line about the rail car that was involved.  What I could find out:

"Jumbo" was fabricated by Babcox and Wilcox in Barberton Ohio (a different source says Pittsburgh, but I believe that is incorrect) after pretty much every other steel company refused to try. It was 25 feet long, 10 feet in diameter and weighed 214 tons. It was shipped in April 1945, on a circuitous route due to weight and clearance issues to the AT&SF siding in Pope, New Mexico, where it was transferred to a specially built 64-wheel trailer and hauled overland 25 miles to the Trinity site.

Sources differ on the flat car. The Los Alamos Historical Document Retrieval and Assessment Project's final report, Chapter 10, indicates that the car was specially built. http://www.lahdra.org/pubs/reports/In%20Pieces/Chapter%2010-%20Trinity%20Test.pdf
Another source indicated that it had been "specially modified".  

Close observation of the photos of the car 
Jumbo was designed by Los Alamos lab to act as a failsafe device for the Trinity test explosion.

shows the following:
Light paint with dark lettering (this is highly atypical of the time)
Capacity         500,000
Load Limit      526,100
Light Weight   313,900
NEW  2-41 (note that this disproves the theory that the car was built for this move... but how many 500,000 lbs capacity cars were there in 1941-45???)

SO that leads to ORER. As best I can tell, and others have searched far more than I, it does not belong to any listing in the 1943 ORER. Interestingly, the paint scheme for B&W flats appears to be light, with dark stencils, but B&W does not have an ORER entry. I think that it may well be a B&W car and B&W chose not to list it, since it was not used for classic "interchange". Alternatively, it may have belonged to the US Government in some way. An example of another heavy duty flat not listed in the ORER, but seen all over the USA was Watervliet Arsenal #1, which also had a light paint scheme with dark lettering at times.

I'm afraid that in depth searches of Babcox and Wilcox and US Gummint sources may be required to further identify this flat car. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 7:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar
 
Hi folks,

   Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still 
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine

  





Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Eric Hansmann
 

CISX 500 is the topic for Jack Consoli’s presentation at RPM-East. The event is March 22 & 23 in metro-Pittsburgh. 

The presentation schedule will be posted today. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Mar 12, 2019, at 7:03 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Guys;

It was built by and for Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation (U.S. Steel) for their use (see attached).  As you all know, U.S.A. borrowed what they needed, often, through the course of the war.  The PRR's F37, 37A and 37B flat cars are a tremendously interesting example.  The PRR's depressed center fleet were also used widely for shipment of super large ingots used in armor plate for battleships.   Jack Consoli has done the research on CISX 500, and will roll out an article at some point.

Elden Gatwood


Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;

It was built by and for Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation (U.S. Steel) for their use (see attached). As you all know, U.S.A. borrowed what they needed, often, through the course of the war. The PRR's F37, 37A and 37B flat cars are a tremendously interesting example. The PRR's depressed center fleet were also used widely for shipment of super large ingots used in armor plate for battleships. Jack Consoli has done the research on CISX 500, and will roll out an article at some point.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 11:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar

Don,




I'm not sure where the CIA story comes from, but this particular photo has been available and in the public domain in excess of FIFTY YEARS! 😉




That said, there has also been a tremendous amount of speculation on line about the rail car that was involved. What I could find out:




"Jumbo" was fabricated by Babcox and Wilcox in Barberton Ohio (a different source says Pittsburgh, but I believe that is incorrect) after pretty much every other steel company refused to try. It was 25 feet long, 10 feet in diameter and weighed 214 tons. It was shipped in April 1945, on a circuitous route due to weight and clearance issues to the AT&SF siding in Pope, New Mexico, where it was transferred to a specially built 64-wheel trailer and hauled overland 25 miles to the Trinity site.




Sources differ on the flat car. The Los Alamos Historical Document Retrieval and Assessment Project's final report, Chapter 10, indicates that the car was specially built. Blockedhttp://www.lahdra.org/pubs/reports/In%20Pieces/Chapter%2010-%20Trinity%20Test.pdf

Another source indicated that it had been "specially modified".




Close observation of the photos of the car

Blockedhttps://www.atomicheritage.org/history/jumbo

<Blockedhttps://www.atomicheritage.org/history/jumbo>
Jumbo | Atomic Heritage Foundation <Blockedhttps://www.atomicheritage.org/history/jumbo>
Blockedwww.atomicheritage.org
Jumbo was designed by Los Alamos lab to act as a failsafe device for the Trinity test explosion.


<Blockedhttps://www.atomicheritage.org/history/jumbo> shows the following:

Light paint with dark lettering (this is highly atypical of the time)

Capacity 500,000

Load Limit 526,100

Light Weight 313,900

NEW 2-41 (note that this disproves the theory that the car was built for this move... but how many 500,000 lbs capacity cars were there in 1941-45???)




SO that leads to ORER. As best I can tell, and others have searched far more than I, it does not belong to any listing in the 1943 ORER. Interestingly, the paint scheme for B&W flats appears to be light, with dark stencils, but B&W does not have an ORER entry. I think that it may well be a B&W car and B&W chose not to list it, since it was not used for classic "interchange". Alternatively, it may have belonged to the US Government in some way. An example of another heavy duty flat not listed in the ORER, but seen all over the USA was Watervliet Arsenal #1, which also had a light paint scheme with dark lettering at times.




I'm afraid that in depth searches of Babcox and Wilcox and US Gummint sources may be required to further identify this flat car.




Regards,

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


________________________________

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 7:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar

Hi folks,

Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine





<Blockedhttps://www.history-a2z.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/88912/c2d1e97a969b5788b99e55499d81fff7_fcb10f1d502cc09de6c1cab9f428f18e_Trinity_15184771366633.jpg>


Throwback Tuesday: Varney Metal Freight Car Kits

Benjamin Hom
 

Varney freight car ad, January 1954 issue of Model Railroader. 


Ben Hom


Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 08:19 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
And clicking on the Jumbo "similar images" link from Yandex = https://tinyurl.com/y5rs98qa
I especially love the "similar images" that are photos of blimps. 

Jack Mullen


Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 08:07 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
I'm afraid that in depth searches of Babcox and Wilcox and US Gummint sources may be required to further identify this flat car. 
Or searching our archives. We discussed and identified the car as CISX 500 in 2014 and again in 2016.
Searching with either "Jumbo" or "CISX 500" will lead to more info and photos. In fact, it will also lead to the same search advice.

There's a diagram of the car and a cross-section showing its construction in the '43 Cyc, p.204, also reproduced in Train Shed Cyc #17. The litem references articles in Ry Mechanical Engr, May 1941, and Ry Age, Apr. 27 1941.

Jack Mullen


Re: BLI Tank Cars - Other prototypes?

Tim O'Connor
 

Isn't the Broadway tank car a HIGH PRESSURE tank? What kind of acid would be shipped
in that type of car? They were used to ship "antiknock compound" which were 500 PSI cars,
and chlorine which I think were 300 PSI cars.

Tim O'Connor

On 3/11/2019 11:15 PM, Randy Hammill wrote:

I have several undecorated BLI tank cars.

I haven't seen a roster of the cars as-built, but I know that I need acid tank cars that would deliver the Stanley Works and other major hardware companies in New Britain. Based on the Sanborn maps, I've been able to identify several processes that were performed onsite, and what I think would be delivered in tank cars. Not all of these materials might have been delivered in tank cars either, so if somebody can clarify that too it would be great.

Pickling: Hydrochloric and/or sulfuric (if carbon steel it could be phosporic, nitric, and/or hydroflouric).
Japanning: naptha and/or turpentine, linseed oil.
Graphite Making: Silicon Carbide
Galvanizing: Sodium Sulfate or zinc, and Sodium Hydroxide
Lacquering: Lacquer and thinner.
Plating: I don't know what type though. Silver? Chrome?

Can anybody provide road numbers and lessees that would be appropriate for the BLI cars in my era that were built for any of these commodities, if any? If any of the RCW cars are appropriate too, that would be great, although it will be harder for me to get since I missed the original run. I'm hoping to get one of the current DuPont ones. Eventually I'd like to dig up some pictures so I can get some decals made.

Thanks!

Randy
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

Tim O'Connor
 


Just FYI, if you folks haven't discovered YANDEX image search, you should try it. It's a Russian web site
equivalent to GOOGLE but the image search is positively brilliant - it blows away Google image search.
It instantly found many higher resolution images of Jumbo

www.yandex.com

And clicking on the Jumbo "similar images" link from Yandex = https://tinyurl.com/y5rs98qa

Tim O'





On 3/11/2019 11:07 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Don,


I'm not sure where the CIA story comes from, but this particular photo has been available and in the public domain in excess of FIFTY YEARS!  😉


That said, there has also been a tremendous amount of speculation on line about the rail car that was involved.  What I could find out:


"Jumbo" was fabricated by Babcox and Wilcox in Barberton Ohio (a different source says Pittsburgh, but I believe that is incorrect) after pretty much every other steel company refused to try. It was 25 feet long, 10 feet in diameter and weighed 214 tons. It was shipped in April 1945, on a circuitous route due to weight and clearance issues to the AT&SF siding in Pope, New Mexico, where it was transferred to a specially built 64-wheel trailer and hauled overland 25 miles to the Trinity site.


Sources differ on the flat car. The Los Alamos Historical Document Retrieval and Assessment Project's final report, Chapter 10, indicates that the car was specially built. http://www.lahdra.org/pubs/reports/In%20Pieces/Chapter%2010-%20Trinity%20Test.pdf

Another source indicated that it had been "specially modified".  


Close observation of the photos of the car 

https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/jumbo

Jumbo was designed by Los Alamos lab to act as a failsafe device for the Trinity test explosion.

shows the following:

Light paint with dark lettering (this is highly atypical of the time)

Capacity         500,000

Load Limit      526,100

Light Weight   313,900

NEW  2-41 (note that this disproves the theory that the car was built for this move... but how many 500,000 lbs capacity cars were there in 1941-45???)


SO that leads to ORER. As best I can tell, and others have searched far more than I, it does not belong to any listing in the 1943 ORER. Interestingly, the paint scheme for B&W flats appears to be light, with dark stencils, but B&W does not have an ORER entry. I think that it may well be a B&W car and B&W chose not to list it, since it was not used for classic "interchange". Alternatively, it may have belonged to the US Government in some way. An example of another heavy duty flat not listed in the ORER, but seen all over the USA was Watervliet Arsenal #1, which also had a light paint scheme with dark lettering at times.


I'm afraid that in depth searches of Babcox and Wilcox and US Gummint sources may be required to further identify this flat car. 


Regards,

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 7:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar
 
Hi folks,

   Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine

  





--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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