Date   

Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Benjamin Hom
 

Richard Townsend wrote:
"I am amazed that there isn't a high-quality injection molded model of this car and its relatives (i.e. the X23). I am aware of the terrific Westerfield resin kits and the Cannonball plastic kits, but neither is what I am talking about. One lacks quality and the other is not plastic.If we can have Caswell gons, why not R7s?"

There is one high quality HO scale X23 family model on the market - the Broadway Limited Class K7A stock car, which were rebuilt from Class X24 automobile boxcars.  The sound module is goofy and the model needs some work to correct the trucks, but that problem is definitely fixable and documented by Bruce Smith in an early issue of The Keystone Modeler.


Ben Hom


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Varney Metal Freight Car Kits

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Same story and I have most of them.  A “lid” on an open hopper is prototypical, you know.  DL&W and others.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Green via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 11:03 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Tuesday: Varney Metal Freight Car Kits

 

I got my start in model railroading with Varney plastic kits.  Sometime in the early 1950s KIX cereal offered Varney kits with a box top and some token amount of money.  As I recall now, I started with an undecorated unpowered F-unit a couple of box cars and some hopper cars.  Varney's plastic covered hopper was just a "lid" on the open-top, two-bay hopper.  I believe I still have all those cars and the locomotive.

Gene Green 


Re: modeling a crane question

Doug Forbes
 

Hey John,
Thanks for the information!!!  I googled that and came up with an article from Engineering News from 1913 that shows that the base is 13' 6" long and 9' 10" wide, with a 30' goose-neck boom.  That's not a very big crane.  Quite a unique thing to model.  I think ??? I've attached the article but I'm not sure.  
Would appreciate any scratch building, kitbashing, etc ideas.  Awesome stuff. 
This picture is from another old journal and shows the crane in action with some GB hopper/gondolas I've managed to 3D print. 
 


Re: NKP Consist

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Binghamton (where I grew up) is the furthest east that the DL&W could carry the cars before having to hand them over to “the competition,” the ERIE.  Binghamton is also where the interchange with the D&H was.  I think the train was probably, for the most part, going to run to Buffalo to be interchanged with the Lackawanna, which would then run the majority of this train (plus other freight they had collected in the Buffalo area) to Binghamton.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Mullen
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 3:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP Consist

 

Schuyler and group,

Assuming the "SKINS" are destined for shoemaking, I'd bet on pigskin.
The numbers in column A are station numbers. They appear to be the originating point on NKP. The more frequent ones are 2446, Madison IL and 1416 Peoria IL.  The NKP Historical Society has a 1950s list of stations online, which I used. Thanks, NKP folks!
The interchange points for cars destined offline are in column E: 1090 Lima OH, and 0 Buffalo. Haven't looked up the others yet.  I'm a bit puzzled by your mention of Binghamton. 

Jack Mullen


Re: modeling a crane question

Patrick Wade
 

For those wanting more info on the Browning Engineering Co, Google: Browning Engineering, Cleveland Memory Project.

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM mofwcaboose via Groups.Io <MOFWCABOOSE=AOL.COM@groups.io> wrote:
This crane was built by Browning Engineering Company in 1911 as Illinois Traction 830.  Capacity was 43,500 pounds- less than 22 tons. It later became Illinois Terminal 01, as is obvious from the photographs.

The Tichy crane is a 120-tonner and much too large in all dimensions. so that it would be nearly useless as a starting point for a model. 

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Forbes <dforbes@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2019 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] modeling a crane question

The Illinois Traction had an electric wrecking crane that was used both for wreck jobs as well as digging coal out of the two underwater coal storage pits they had built.  I'm looking for recommendations as to how to model such a thing.  I have looked at commercially available kits.  It seems like the Tichy crane frame might work but that a new cab and boom will need to be scratch built or 3D printed or something.  Thoughts?  Still not sure how one would manage a metal crane boom with an overhead powered wire directly above, seems like an electrifying challenge...



This is from the Illinois Terminal Facebook page. 


From 1916.


Re: modeling a crane question

David Jobe, Sr.
 

John – Do you happen to have any other information on Browning Engineering and perhaps this crane?  I have not seen anything further in the society’s archives.

 

For those interested, the crane was equipped with a swivel head trolley pole similar to those used on trolley buses.  The first image below shows the way the wheel is mounted at a  near right angle to the pole instead of in line with the pole.  So, in use at the coal pits, the contact wire was suspended to the side of the track rather than over the center line of the track.  In the case of a wreck or other maintenance work, one or two line crews would accompany the crane and temporarily remove the contact wire from the hangers, pull it to one side and rehang it so the crane could still use it for power.

 

Last, the crane had powered trucks and could move on its own.

 

David Jobe, Sr.

Saint Ann, Missouri

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mofwcaboose via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 8:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] modeling a crane question

 

This crane was built by Browning Engineering Company in 1911 as Illinois Traction 830.  Capacity was 43,500 pounds- less than 22 tons. It later became Illinois Terminal 01, as is obvious from the photographs.

 

The Tichy crane is a 120-tonner and much too large in all dimensions. so that it would be nearly useless as a starting point for a model. 

 

John C. La Rue, Jr.

Bonita Springs, FL

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Forbes <dforbes@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2019 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] modeling a crane question

The Illinois Traction had an electric wrecking crane that was used both for wreck jobs as well as digging coal out of the two underwater coal storage pits they had built.  I'm looking for recommendations as to how to model such a thing.  I have looked at commercially available kits.  It seems like the Tichy crane frame might work but that a new cab and boom will need to be scratch built or 3D printed or something.  Thoughts?  Still not sure how one would manage a metal crane boom with an overhead powered wire directly above, seems like an electrifying challenge...



This is from the Illinois Terminal Facebook page. 


From 1916.


Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Bill Keene
 

I believe that the stock car was an MKT prototype ... Or at least close to it.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Mar 13, 2019, at 3:26 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:

Tom

Thanks for the great web page link! I now see that my Dad built the whole series #1 except
for the caboose and the stock car.

I was crazy about John Allen as a teen. Not just his modeling, but because his railroad was a business.
He created a narrative to explain the operations and the trains served a purpose. That was a revelation
on a par with the Delta Lines. I know my Dad was deeply influenced by the Delta Lines and I still have
his elaborate layout plans for a never-built layout he drew based on Frank Ellison's work to fit our basement.

Tim O'


On 3/13/2019 5:09 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:

Here's a link to a useful listing of all the Ambroid 1 of 5000 kits:
http://www.trainweb.org/ambroidkits/trains/woodkits/Ambroid_5-Cars.htm

I lusted after them and bought each as they were released. Built all of the first series but gave up buying them after #4 of the second series as it seemed they were really reaching for prototypes. Plus I was deeply into Colorado narrow gauge by then and ended up selling all my '50s era standard gauge models and kits except for my first locomotive, a Mantua Shifter 0-4-0. Still have it. Also still have a small drawer full of Mantua and Comet paper freight car sides. Mostly reefers.

Like many modelers of the time I was greatly influenced by John Allen's articles and Varney ads. Hard to believe he's been gone for over 46 years. I know in some circles his work is no longer greeted with acclaim because he wasn't a prototype modeler and, like Malcolm Furlow's modeling, it seems to lean heavily towards caricature. But the G&D seemed credible and real to me at the time.....

Tom Madden


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



wtb sunshine models 37.5, 37.6, 37.7, 37.8, 37.18, 37.19, 37.20

A&Y Dave in MD
 

I am looking for any of the Southern double sheathed car kits by Sunshine Models.  I don't know how many the company made, but I have been unable to locate any since a single kit appeared on eBay 4+ years ago (and Craig Zeni won it and later showed it to me built, sigh).  I'm guessing it was rare due to lack of orders not because everyone bought them out quickly (how I wished I had known when the company was active!).

I'd definitely prefer a kit, but would consider a well-built model, painted or unpainted, (send photos) at this point.

I have 10 of the 36' truss rod SU Westerfield kits, so please don't offer me those.

Thought the STMFC list would be as good as any to locate one of these kits, perhaps far enough back in the "to do" line that someone might be willing to sell it.  

Please email me OFFLIST at
dbott@...  if you have one for sale.   Yes, I'm emailing Jim Hayes for leads, too.

I would consider trading for the 1937 version single door Southern Sunshine kit, which is of more interest to me.  I have one extra unbuilt each of a Smoky Mountain Model Works Southern wood caboose kit complete with trucks and couplers, and a Wright Track as-built Southern bay window cab kit as possible trades.

Thanks,

Dave Bott


Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Richard Townsend
 

I am amazed that there isn't a high-quality injection molded model of this car and its relatives (i.e. the X23). I am aware of the terrific Westerfield resin kits and the Cannonball plastic kits, but neither is what I am talking about. One lacks quality and the other is not plastic.If we can have Caswell gons, why not R7s?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2019 7:07 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Ambroid PRR Class R7 reefer ad, February 1959 issue of Model Railroader.


Ben Hom


Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Tom,
 
Thanks.
 
I have about two dozen Ambroid kits and a handful of the subsequent Northeastern kits, some built, most not or unfinished.  One of the yet to be built Northeastern kits is, I think, the Northeastern version of this kit, “HR-2 Refrigerator PRR.”  It’s been a very long time and the description is a bit generic, so I’m not sure just what it is.  Maybe I’ll more it up my very long list.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 5:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer
 

Here's a link to a useful listing of all the Ambroid 1 of 5000 kits:
http://www.trainweb.org/ambroidkits/trains/woodkits/Ambroid_5-Cars.htm

I lusted after them and bought each as they were released. Built all of the first series but gave up buying them after #4 of the second series as it seemed they were really reaching for prototypes. Plus I was deeply into Colorado narrow gauge by then and ended up selling all my '50s era standard gauge models and kits except for my first locomotive, a Mantua Shifter 0-4-0. Still have it. Also still have a small drawer full of Mantua and Comet paper freight car sides. Mostly reefers.

Like many modelers of the time I was greatly influenced by John Allen's articles and Varney ads. Hard to believe he's been gone for over 46 years. I know in some circles his work is no longer greeted with acclaim because he wasn't a prototype modeler and, like Malcolm Furlow's modeling, it seems to lean heavily towards caricature. But the G&D seemed credible and real to me at the time.....

Tom Madden


Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Ralph W. Brown
 

Thanks, Ben.
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Benjamin Hom
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 4:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer
 
Ralph Brown asked:
"Does anyone know the number for this 1 of 5000 series kit?"
 
No. 5.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: modeling a crane question

mofwcaboose <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

This crane was built by Browning Engineering Company in 1911 as Illinois Traction 830.  Capacity was 43,500 pounds- less than 22 tons. It later became Illinois Terminal 01, as is obvious from the photographs.

The Tichy crane is a 120-tonner and much too large in all dimensions. so that it would be nearly useless as a starting point for a model. 

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Forbes <dforbes@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2019 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] modeling a crane question

The Illinois Traction had an electric wrecking crane that was used both for wreck jobs as well as digging coal out of the two underwater coal storage pits they had built.  I'm looking for recommendations as to how to model such a thing.  I have looked at commercially available kits.  It seems like the Tichy crane frame might work but that a new cab and boom will need to be scratch built or 3D printed or something.  Thoughts?  Still not sure how one would manage a metal crane boom with an overhead powered wire directly above, seems like an electrifying challenge...



This is from the Illinois Terminal Facebook page. 


From 1916.


Re: NKP Consist

Douglas Harding
 

ARLX 1225 contains PHP, packing house products, with a note DNI, which I think stands for Do Not Ice. PHP could be meat, meat by-products, meat scraps, canned meat, organs, items destined for human consumption or items destined for non-edible. The DNI could mean the load did not need cooling or that had sufficient ice to get to its destination and the shipper did not want to pay for unnecessary ice.

Nice photo of an Armour Steel sided reefer 1900, which may be the same series, on Tony’s blog http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2013/05/modeling-meat-reefers-armour-steel-cars.html

 

Intermountain did an HO model lettered for ARLX 1225 https://www.walthers.com/r-40-23-steel-ice-reefer-ready-to-run-armour-arlx-yellow-boxcar-red-red

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP Consist

 

I'll try to respond to several questions in one email. 

Schuyler the interchange point is column E. The Empty Erie Auto boxcars came off at Lima.  Much of the Train would be interchanged at Buffalo. The MB-98 was due in Buffalo by 11:30 am every day. Anything that made it to Buffalo for the Erie would be sent to East Buffalo. 

 I am not familiar with the numbers in the 1st column. Station number of the origin points sound right. I need to look these up. (I have the resource "Someplace") 

MB-98 was a fast freight so the low number of empty's is not surprising. The 4 Erie boxcars were probably in Auto Parts. What is interesting is the large block being dropped at Lima for the Erie. Included in the block are several cars going to Buffalo and points east that could have been routed over the NKP to Buffalo. This shows the shipper controlled the routing. 

I'm really interested in ARLX 1225 for Warren PA. This car is not going to Buffalo (0) it's going to 87 I need to look this up. The likely place is Erie but a second class train would be unlikely to stop there to drop one car.

I will be turning the consist into a short article for the NKPHTS so I am saving all the replies for future use. I may also look at modeling all the cars for the NKPHTS Modelers Notebook, our online Ezine. (I am not even an NKP modeler but I like freight cars.) 

Brian J Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY 


Re: NKP Consist

William Hirt
 

On 3/13/2019 12:41 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io wrote:
I am not familiar with the numbers in the 1st column. Station number of the origin points sound right. I need to look these up. (I have the resource "Someplace")
If you can not find it, I downloaded the PDF file from NKP Historical Society site today. The station numbers are in a booklet called Officers, Agents, Stations etc 1951.


I'm really interested in ARLX 1225 for Warren PA. This car is not going to Buffalo (0) it's going to 87 I need to look this up. The likely place is Erie but a second class train would be unlikely to stop there to drop one car.
87 is shown to be Erie PA. Would it not be too surprising this train stopped at Bellevue, Ohio, the main NKP system yard, to be re-blocked or combined with a train originating from Chicago? There then could be a whole block for Erie then.

The Sanborn maps show a Armour branch house on the NYC in Warren, PA.

Bill Hirt


Re: AHM 40' 8-panel gondola

Jeffrey White
 

IC 97250 and 97251 rebuilt at Centralia in 1950 to carry calcium carbide containers. 3 more cars, 97252 -  97254 rebuilt in 1952 and 7 more, 97255 - 97262 in 1953.  There were 763 without the provisions for the containers,  97263-97999. rebuilt at Centralia in 1950.  The diagram sheet says they were rebuilt from various cars. The original cars were numbered 203700-205839 from various builders in 1923.  They were rebuilt the first time at McComb, MS in 1943 and numbered 89000-89999.  These are low side gons (3' 5 1/2" from the floor to the top)  but they are 8 panel gons.  Still on the roster in 1960. 

Jeff White

Alma, IL

On 3/13/2019 4:50 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Richard Townsend asked: 
"I was going through my junk box this morning and came a cross an AHM 40-foot, eight-panel gondola. It got me wondering: is there a prototype for this car? A quick look through several Carbuilder Cycs came up with plenty of nine-panel cars, but no eights. Any suggestions? Oh, by the way it's solid bottom. No drop doors."

Bill Welch wrote:
"Hard to tell w/o a photo of the model..."

Photo attached - this is one of the most common models out there, originally introduced by Varney during their switch to styrene, copied by Rivarossi and Cox, and later offered by Walthers, Life-Like, and Bachmann.  It's a plausible model - it's not outlandish like the Athearn 50 ft gon, but the problem is it doesn't match any known prototype.

However, it's so common that I'm considering using it for a bunch of ersatz "Tan Dot" SP gons as I have more than a few on hand, saving the Red Caboose and Detail Associates models for foreground models.  Here's Jason Hill's approach on doing this:


Ben Hom



Re: Missouri Pacific 50-foot SS DD: Modeling from MDC

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

     Somewhere around here, Fenton, I've got an MDC MoPac car that has been modified to look more like that
in the two photos; i.e. the side sills have been trimmed, details of the end door closing mechanism improved and 
grabs replaced with wire, etc. It did not take a lot of time and really looks quite convincing. I'll see if it can be found
this weekend and also post a photo to give you a comparison of two different modified MDC cars. Certainly one of
MDC's more worthwhile offerings. I have the T&P and W.P. cars still to do and at least one other as well.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: NKP Consist

Jack Mullen
 

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 10:41 AM, Brian Carlson wrote:
I'm really interested in ARLX 1225 for Warren PA. This car is not going to Buffalo (0) it's going to 87 I need to look this up. The likely place is Erie but a second class train would be unlikely to stop there to drop one car.
Yeah, the 9 cars at the bottom of the consist (presumably head end) are a bit puzzling to me. The 7xxx station numbers are W&LE destinations, so I suppose will be dropped at Bellevue, or maybe Lorain - I haven't looked at where they go on the Wheeling. That leaves shorts for 184 Cleveland, 102 Wallace Jct/ BLE, and 87 Erie / PRR. Like you, I don't think a thru freight is going to be making individual setouts, so I'm guessing they get dropped somewhere to go on a local. I know zilch about NKP ops, so hopefully this will provoke somebody with better knowledge to chime in.

Jack


Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

 

When I started moving in manufacturer circles, I found that Ambroid never sold 5,000 of any of these kits.  However, the fact that they were limited run meant that they sold more of them than most of their regular line. – Al Westerfield

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 2:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

 

Here's a link to a useful listing of all the Ambroid 1 of 5000 kits:
http://www.trainweb.org/ambroidkits/trains/woodkits/Ambroid_5-Cars.htm

I lusted after them and bought each as they were released. Built all of the first series but gave up buying them after #4 of the second series as it seemed they were really reaching for prototypes. Plus I was deeply into Colorado narrow gauge by then and ended up selling all my '50s era standard gauge models and kits except for my first locomotive, a Mantua Shifter 0-4-0. Still have it. Also still have a small drawer full of Mantua and Comet paper freight car sides. Mostly reefers.

Like many modelers of the time I was greatly influenced by John Allen's articles and Varney ads. Hard to believe he's been gone for over 46 years. I know in some circles his work is no longer greeted with acclaim because he wasn't a prototype modeler and, like Malcolm Furlow's modeling, it seems to lean heavily towards caricature. But the G&D seemed credible and real to me at the time.....

Tom Madden

 


Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

Thanks for the great web page link! I now see that my Dad built the whole series #1 except
for the caboose and the stock car.

I was crazy about John Allen as a teen. Not just his modeling, but because his railroad was a business.
He created a narrative to explain the operations and the trains served a purpose. That was a revelation
on a par with the Delta Lines. I know my Dad was deeply influenced by the Delta Lines and I still have
his elaborate layout plans for a never-built layout he drew based on Frank Ellison's work to fit our basement.

Tim O'

On 3/13/2019 5:09 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:

Here's a link to a useful listing of all the Ambroid 1 of 5000 kits:
http://www.trainweb.org/ambroidkits/trains/woodkits/Ambroid_5-Cars.htm

I lusted after them and bought each as they were released. Built all of the first series but gave up buying them after #4 of the second series as it seemed they were really reaching for prototypes. Plus I was deeply into Colorado narrow gauge by then and ended up selling all my '50s era standard gauge models and kits except for my first locomotive, a Mantua Shifter 0-4-0. Still have it. Also still have a small drawer full of Mantua and Comet paper freight car sides. Mostly reefers.

Like many modelers of the time I was greatly influenced by John Allen's articles and Varney ads. Hard to believe he's been gone for over 46 years. I know in some circles his work is no longer greeted with acclaim because he wasn't a prototype modeler and, like Malcolm Furlow's modeling, it seems to lean heavily towards caricature. But the G&D seemed credible and real to me at the time.....

Tom Madden
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Type Of Brake Wheels?

John Sykes III
 

Kadee???

LMAO -- John

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