Date   

Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Richard Townsend
 

Thanks, Ben, I had forgotten about that model. Unfortunately, as I my model railroad is set in Colorado, and as I doubt any PRR stock cars made it to Colorado, I have no use for that car, with or without sound. In a way you help me make my point. I'll amend my closing statement from earlier: If we can have Caswell gons and K7 stock cars, why not R7s?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Mar 14, 2019 3:17 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Richard Townsend wrote:
"I am amazed that there isn't a high-quality injection molded model of this car and its relatives (i.e. the X23). I am aware of the terrific Westerfield resin kits and the Cannonball plastic kits, but neither is what I am talking about. One lacks quality and the other is not plastic.If we can have Caswell gons, why not R7s?"

There is one high quality HO scale X23 family model on the market - the Broadway Limited Class K7A stock car, which were rebuilt from Class X24 automobile boxcars.  The sound module is goofy and the model needs some work to correct the trucks, but that problem is definitely fixable and documented by Bruce Smith in an early issue of The Keystone Modeler.


Ben Hom



Thinning the Herd

Rossiter, Mark W <Mark.Rossiter@...>
 

Like many of you, I am taking a hard look at my stash of unbuilt resin kits and have decided that there are some I am never going to get around to building for a variety of reasons.  I am offering up the following kits:

 

  1. West Shore Line Kit #9002 – 1946 New York Central Despatch shops-built Class LO 70-ton covered hopper.  Includes instructions and decals.  This is an EARLY flat kit made of blonde-colored resin.  I’m guessing it was made by Funaro and Camerlengo for Central Hobby Supply in East Syracuse, NY.     $10.00 plus shipping to your zip code.

     

  2. West Shore Line Kit #9602 – B&O M53 Wagontop box car with ‘Plain’ door.  One-piece body made of newer white-colored resin.  Includes instructions, decals and separate details.  I’m guessing it was made by Funaro and Camerlengo for Central Hobby Supply in East Syracuse, NY.  $20.00 plus shipping to your zip code.

     

  3. West Shore Line Kit #9501 – B&O N-34 Round Roof (Wagontop) covered hopper.  Mostly one-piece body made of newer white-colored resin.  Includes instructions, decals, plastic trucks and wheels and separate details.  I’m guessing it was made by Funaro and Camerlengo for Central Hobby Supply in East Syracuse, NY.  $20.00 plus shipping to your zip code.

     

  4. Yankee Clipper Models Kit # CP1929 – Canadian Pacific 1929 ‘Mini’ box car.  This is an EARLY flat kit made of white-colored resin.  I’m guessing it was made by Funaro and Camerlengo for Yankee Clipper Models.  Includes instructions, decals and detail parts.            $15.00 plus shipping to your zip code.

     

  5. Funaro & Camerlengo Kit #6930 -  B&O M53 Wagontop box car with ‘Plain’ door.  (1937-1980’s).  Newer kit with one-piece body made of white-colored resin.  Includes instructions, decals and separate details.  $25.00 plus shipping to your zip code.

     

  6. Funaro & Camerlengo Kit #6932 -  B&O M53 Wagontop box car with Youngstown door.  (1949-1980’s).  Newer kit with one-piece body made of white-colored resin.  Includes instructions, decals and separate details.  $25.00 plus shipping to your zip code.

     

I will gladly combine shipping for multiple kits.  Please reply OFFLINE to mrossiter327@.... 

 


Re: modeling a crane question

John Moore
 

Had trouble getting the attachments to the email.  My copy only had one of the C&EI derricks but two showed up.

Just delete if you wich.
--
okladivjohn@...


Re: modeling a crane question

John Moore
 

Model Railroader had a two part article on modeling a "30 ton derrick" in Jan and Feb 1956. 

It was similar to the C&IE folio sheet for their 100 ton crane.  

There was also a similar crane on the SP de M ca 1929.

John  B. Moore, Jr.
Albuquerque
--
okladivjohn@...


Re: modeling a crane question

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends

I did a bit of digging through Ira Swett's CARS OF PACIFIC ELECTRIC, V.3, and came up with some data that might be of interest to the whole question of ITR 1, and other small cranes.

PE's largest electric crane at 60 tons, their 003, built in 1912 by Industrial Works of Bay City, Michigan. The frame of this crane was 24' 5" over the end plates. Bolster centers were 12' 5" for what appear to be arch bar trucks with a 5' 4" wheelbase. Height to the roof was 14' 7". The crane was originally built with a 40' straight boom, but this required crews to take down the wires where the crane was working. In 1920 a shorter gooseneck boom was substituted, which as I mentioned earlier had a wooden housing over the end as an insulator.  The crane was fed by a standard PE Pole, and had motors on the trucks.

For comparison, PE's other "large" crane was a 20-ton capacity Ohio Locomotive Co. steam-powered Model CD. It's length was 20' 1/2". Truck centers were 11' 7 1/8". Trucks were 5' 1" MCB Radial, whatever that means (I'm thinking an arch bar, but the diagram and photos aren't clear on this). Cab was 11' 1" long, and height at the roof was 13' 11", but there was also a stack which took the total height to 18' 4 1/2". The boom was a 40' latice type, and apparently was never changed to a gooseneck. Yes, it did have a similar insulator wooden box. I believe Lifelike once sold a crane around this size which might supply the frame, cab base and boom.

PE's other cranes were conversions of freight or passenger cars, having a boom mounted on the deck near the car's end, and are not anything like these two machines, or the ITR crane.

A number of general arrangement diagrams for WP cranes are online at https://www.wplives.com/diagrams/mow/1947/index.php . It isn't always clear what the cranes' capacities are, but there is a lot to be learned here that could help with a model.

Have fun!


Garth Groff


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gary;

Wow, that's a rare one: a 5-course radial construction tank with 5 bands, and wood cradle, inset stirrup steps, and a "different" looking underframe; probably pre-1915 construction. Some early early GATC cars looked similar to this, but this could also be a predecessor manufacturer. A better look at the bolsters could tell us more, but I cannot seem them. The smallish dome is also a more common feature of these early tank cars. We cannot see the dome vents, which is also an indicator of time period. The dome platform does not look original to the car; it may be a Wabash add.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 1:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID

The Wabash purchased 10 tank cars for company service from the American Cotton Oil Company in 1924. They were numbered 3160-3169, and had a capacity of 40 tons - 7700 gallons. Unfortunately, company freight car equipment registers do not state the builder of these cars. I would appreciate any help in determining who built them.

A photo of one is located at this address: Blockedhttp://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4052881

Thank you in advance!

gary roe
quincy, illinois


Help With Wabash Tank Car ID

Gary Roe
 

The Wabash purchased 10 tank cars for company service from the American Cotton Oil Company in 1924.  They were numbered 3160-3169, and had a capacity of 40 tons - 7700 gallons.  Unfortunately, company freight car equipment registers do not state the builder of these cars.  I would appreciate any help in determining who built them.

A photo of one is located at this address: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4052881

Thank you in advance!

gary roe
quincy, illinois


Re: modeling a crane question

Tim O'Connor
 

"Railroad History" #160 (publication of the R&LHS) has a 10 page article on
Santa Fe 120 ton Brownhoist cranes and some comparison with earlier cranes
that some modelers might find useful.

Tim O'Connor

On 3/14/2019 10:33 AM, Spen Kellogg wrote:
On 3/13/2019 10:21 PM, Doug Forbes wrote:
Hey John,
Thanks for the information!!!  I googled that and came up with an
article from Engineering News from 1913 that shows that the base is
13' 6" long and 9' 10" wide, with a 30' goose-neck boom. That's not a
very big crane.  Quite a unique thing to model.  I think ??? I've
attached the article but I'm not sure.
Would appreciate any scratch building, kitbashing, etc ideas. Awesome
stuff.
Doug,

Since the Tichy crane boom is twice the size of the one you want to
model, might there be an N scale crane that could provide a boom close
to what you need? Or possibly a boom from a construction vehicle in HO
or S scale; Herpa comes to mind?

Spen Kellogg
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: modeling a crane question

Dennis Storzek
 

Given the capacity the ITS crane is more closely related to what was called a locomotive crane rather than a wrecker. The fooler is the custom boom. I seem to recall that Walthers offered a powered locomotive crane 10 or 12 years ago that might be a good starting point.
Dennis Storzek


Re: modeling a crane question

Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
 

On 3/13/2019 10:21 PM, Doug Forbes wrote:
Hey John,
Thanks for the information!!!  I googled that and came up with an
article from Engineering News from 1913 that shows that the base is
13' 6" long and 9' 10" wide, with a 30' goose-neck boom. That's not a
very big crane.  Quite a unique thing to model.  I think ??? I've
attached the article but I'm not sure.
Would appreciate any scratch building, kitbashing, etc ideas. Awesome
stuff.
Doug,

Since the Tichy crane boom is twice the size of the one you want to
model, might there be an N scale crane that could provide a boom close
to what you need? Or possibly a boom from a construction vehicle in HO
or S scale; Herpa comes to mind?

Spen Kellogg


Re: NKP Consist

Michael Mang
 

Tim,

The Lackawanna's route to Maybrook was via the L&HR, interchanging at Port Morris NJ. Cars were sent to the New Haven via ferry, but the L&HR connection was better.

Michael Mang


On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 10:08 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The Lackawanna had no interchanges with the L&HR, L&NE, NYS&W or NYO&W who could
have forwarded cars to the New Haven via Maybrook, or directly to the car ferries that could have
forwarded cars to the New Haven across the Hudson River?

On 3/13/2019 11:49 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io wrote:

Binghamton (where I grew up) is the furthest east that the DL&W could carry the cars before having to hand them over to “the competition,” the ERIE.  Binghamton is also where the interchange with the D&H was.  I think the train was probably, for the most part, going to run to Buffalo to be interchanged with the Lackawanna, which would then run the majority of this train (plus other freight they had collected in the Buffalo area) to Binghamton.

 

Schuyler


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NKP Consist

Tim O'Connor
 


The Lackawanna had no interchanges with the L&HR, L&NE, NYS&W or NYO&W who could
have forwarded cars to the New Haven via Maybrook, or directly to the car ferries that could have
forwarded cars to the New Haven across the Hudson River?

On 3/13/2019 11:49 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io wrote:

Binghamton (where I grew up) is the furthest east that the DL&W could carry the cars before having to hand them over to “the competition,” the ERIE.  Binghamton is also where the interchange with the D&H was.  I think the train was probably, for the most part, going to run to Buffalo to be interchanged with the Lackawanna, which would then run the majority of this train (plus other freight they had collected in the Buffalo area) to Binghamton.

 

Schuyler


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Unidentified deep well flatcar

John Barry
 

Bruce,

Jan 43 ORER pg 931, CISX 500 Capacity 526100, suspiciously identical to the Load Limit in the photo.  

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Monday, March 11, 2019, 11:07:26 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Don,


I'm not sure where the CIA story comes from, but this particular photo has been available and in the public domain in excess of FIFTY YEARS!  😉


That said, there has also been a tremendous amount of speculation on line about the rail car that was involved.  What I could find out:


"Jumbo" was fabricated by Babcox and Wilcox in Barberton Ohio (a different source says Pittsburgh, but I believe that is incorrect) after pretty much every other steel company refused to try. It was 25 feet long, 10 feet in diameter and weighed 214 tons. It was shipped in April 1945, on a circuitous route due to weight and clearance issues to the AT&SF siding in Pope, New Mexico, where it was transferred to a specially built 64-wheel trailer and hauled overland 25 miles to the Trinity site.


Sources differ on the flat car. The Los Alamos Historical Document Retrieval and Assessment Project's final report, Chapter 10, indicates that the car was specially built. http://www.lahdra.org/pubs/reports/In%20Pieces/Chapter%2010-%20Trinity%20Test.pdf

Another source indicated that it had been "specially modified".  


Close observation of the photos of the car 

https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/jumbo

www.atomicheritage.org
Jumbo was designed by Los Alamos lab to act as a failsafe device for the Trinity test explosion.

shows the following:

Light paint with dark lettering (this is highly atypical of the time)

Capacity         500,000

Load Limit      526,100

Light Weight   313,900

NEW  2-41 (note that this disproves the theory that the car was built for this move... but how many 500,000 lbs capacity cars were there in 1941-45???)


SO that leads to ORER. As best I can tell, and others have searched far more than I, it does not belong to any listing in the 1943 ORER. Interestingly, the paint scheme for B&W flats appears to be light, with dark stencils, but B&W does not have an ORER entry. I think that it may well be a B&W car and B&W chose not to list it, since it was not used for classic "interchange". Alternatively, it may have belonged to the US Government in some way. An example of another heavy duty flat not listed in the ORER, but seen all over the USA was Watervliet Arsenal #1, which also had a light paint scheme with dark lettering at times.


I'm afraid that in depth searches of Babcox and Wilcox and US Gummint sources may be required to further identify this flat car. 


Regards,

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 7:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Unidentified deep well flatcar
 
Hi folks,

   Does anyone have any idea of what railroad owned the deep well flatcar in the photo attached
that the first A-bomb was being unloaded from in the desert? This is from recently released CIA
documents. Then, too, it could have been government owned. Presume such things are still
shipped in a similar manner. Just as long as they are not armed!

Cordially, Don Valentine

  




Re: modeling a crane question

Doug Forbes
 

Hey Garth,
Thanks for the idea of that crane.  I hadn't noticed that kit before.  My current plan is to first try and draw on paper a two-dimensional scale sketch using the dimensions in the article and some photos.  From there I will try and find a base to use, maybe the one you suggested.  The boom I think I will try and 3D print using Shapeways, and the cab either kitbash or 3D print.  Should be interesting.  Thanks all for the tips and advice. 


Re: Private Name SS Box Car 1536

Paul Doggett
 

Lester 

That’s a fine job,

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 14 Mar 2019, at 12:56, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

Hello Tom,

Thank You for the kind words.

Now, the ladder rungs.  After the molded rungs are removed I drill number #80 or #79 holes along each stile at the rung fastener location.  Next, I do touch up painting.   Once touch up paint was dry I added straight grab irons for the ladder rungs bent from Tichy Train Group (Tichy) #1101, .010” diameter phosphor bronze wire (PBW).  You could use brass wire such as Detail Associates instead.

Lester Breuer


Re: Private Name SS Box Car 1536

Lester Breuer
 

Hello Tom,

Thank You for the kind words.

Now, the ladder rungs.  After the molded rungs are removed I drill number #80 or #79 holes along each stile at the rung fastener location.  Next, I do touch up painting.   Once touch up paint was dry I added straight grab irons for the ladder rungs bent from Tichy Train Group (Tichy) #1101, .010” diameter phosphor bronze wire (PBW).  You could use brass wire such as Detail Associates instead.

Lester Breuer


Re: NKP Consist

Walter
 

Bill,

Probably not much changed in the NPPT between your tariff and the one used during the time of the consist. I can’t remember what number the tariff was when I started working for the associated companies. Things were changing between between 1957 and 1969.

Lenny Ohrnell


Re: modeling a crane question

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Doug and Friends,

For a kitbash, the most likely candidate would be the Truscale/TM/Walthers diesel crane. I haven't checked with Walthers to see if these are still available, but they are common enough on the used market. The base is about the right size and the floor and boom mounts would probably make a good start. A new cab could be built up. The big problem is the boom, which is unlike anything I've ever seen. I suppose it all depends on how much scratch-building you can do, or how much compromise you will accept.

I had one of these cranes many years ago, and since I was doing a freelance electric line, I mounted a Suydam pole on the roof. Later I steam-ized the cab. It would have looked nice with a small tender attached.

Electric cranes like these were not uncommon on larger electric railroads. Over the years, the Pacific Electric owned at least seven electric cranes, plus one steamer. Most of their cranes had a wooden box added around the end of the boom as an insulator.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/13/19 9:07 PM, mofwcaboose via Groups.Io wrote:
This crane was built by Browning Engineering Company in 1911 as Illinois Traction 830.  Capacity was 43,500 pounds- less than 22 tons. It later became Illinois Terminal 01, as is obvious from the photographs.

The Tichy crane is a 120-tonner and much too large in all dimensions. so that it would be nearly useless as a starting point for a model. 

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Forbes <dforbes@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2019 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] modeling a crane question

The Illinois Traction had an electric wrecking crane that was used both for wreck jobs as well as digging coal out of the two underwater coal storage pits they had built.  I'm looking for recommendations as to how to model such a thing.  I have looked at commercially available kits.  It seems like the Tichy crane frame might work but that a new cab and boom will need to be scratch built or 3D printed or something.  Thoughts?  Still not sure how one would manage a metal crane boom with an overhead powered wire directly above, seems like an electrifying challenge...



This is from the Illinois Terminal Facebook page. 


From 1916.


Re: Missouri Pacific 50-foot SS DD: Modeling from MDC

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Don
Fenton

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 8:10 PM Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
     Somewhere around here, Fenton, I've got an MDC MoPac car that has been modified to look more like that
in the two photos; i.e. the side sills have been trimmed, details of the end door closing mechanism improved and 
grabs replaced with wire, etc. It did not take a lot of time and really looks quite convincing. I'll see if it can be found
this weekend and also post a photo to give you a comparison of two different modified MDC cars. Certainly one of
MDC's more worthwhile offerings. I have the T&P and W.P. cars still to do and at least one other as well.

Cordially, Don Valentine



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Throwback Thursday: Ambroid PRR Class R7 Reefer

Benjamin Hom
 

Richard Townsend wrote:
"I am amazed that there isn't a high-quality injection molded model of this car and its relatives (i.e. the X23). I am aware of the terrific Westerfield resin kits and the Cannonball plastic kits, but neither is what I am talking about. One lacks quality and the other is not plastic.If we can have Caswell gons, why not R7s?"

There is one high quality HO scale X23 family model on the market - the Broadway Limited Class K7A stock car, which were rebuilt from Class X24 automobile boxcars.  The sound module is goofy and the model needs some work to correct the trucks, but that problem is definitely fixable and documented by Bruce Smith in an early issue of The Keystone Modeler.


Ben Hom

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