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8 hatch reefer question.
Scott
Do the series six 8 hatch reefers have the thermometer on both sides of the car or one side or neither? It seems I have run across photos of 8 hatch reefers that dont have the thermometer at least on one side.. But the images are pretty fuzzy.
Thanks Scott McDonald
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Re: Help With Wabash Tank Car ID
Jim Gates
That history is available here:
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https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b661737;view=1up;seq=1 According to this the name was borrowed from the German-American Provision Company. The implication is this is the company from whom Epstein obtained his original cars. Jim Gates --------------------------------------------
On Mon, 3/18/19, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@mindspring.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Date: Monday, March 18, 2019, 8:06 PM Max Epstein found a freight car leasing company in 1898 and in 1902, changed the name to German American. During WWI, the name changed, again, to General American, at least partly due to anti-German sentiment at that time. See http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/2681.html for some more details. There was a 50 year history book published in 1948 that shows up from time to time on eBay or other used book sites. Steve Hile
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID
Max Epstein found a freight car leasing company in 1898 and in 1902, changed the name to German American. During WWI, the name changed, again, to General American, at least partly due to anti-German sentiment at that time. See http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/2681.html for some more details. There was a 50 year history book published in 1948 that shows up from time to time on eBay or other used book sites.
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Steve Hile
-----Original Message-----
From: vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@gmx.net>
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Re: UTLX X design dimensions
Although the early class X cars were about 6000 gallons capacity, most built later were 6500 gallon capacity and had 3 radial courses on the upper tank. Those converted to narrow gauge service were most likely these slightly larger and later tanks. Some details are in the book, but I did not attempt to define the narrow gauge usages, as there were several renumberings and a few cars that were designated as convertible (Class V cars) that could ride on either narrow or standard gauge trucks when required. There is a pretty complete roster from 1952 in the files section of this list. Those swing cars, I believe, are in the 55xxx range while the X cars are in the 88xxx series. See https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/files/UTLX%201-1952%20TANK%20CAR%20LIST.pdf. In HO the old MDC tank with Shapeways underframe and running boards models the 6000 gallon cars fairly well. Steve Hile
-----Original Message-----
>From: Earl Tuson >Sent: Mar 18, 2019 7:25 PM >To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io >Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX X design dimensions > >The 1906 CBD has plans for 6,000 gal UTLX X design tank cars: > >https://archive.org/details/carbuildersdict00mast/page/n315 > >This drawing shows the bolster centers to be 17, and the 5 horizontal course 76 ID tank length to be 25 >(266 over the heads.) > >PBL makes very high quality Sn3 equipment. Their 6,000 gallon tank molding is used in their Type V kit >and their modified, wide frame, Type X (converted by the prototype from normal standard gauge Type X >cars.) However, the PBL 3 horizontal course tank is ~77.5 OD but 266 long (28 over the heads,) with >19 bolster centers. > >Can anyone offer insight into these apparent discrepancies? > >Earl Tuson > > > >
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German-American Car Co. [Was "Help With Wabash Tank Car ID"]
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Johannes,
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Atlantic Seaboard Dispatch was formed in 1898 by a German immigrant named Max Epstein to lease freight cars to shippers. Initially they offered refrigerator cars. The firm was reorganized as the German-American Car Company. in 1902. When the company went public with its stock in 1916, the name was changed to General American Tank Car Company. This better reflected the most common type of car they were offering for lease at that time. The commonly repeated story is that name was changed to make the stock more attractive to investors because of anti-German feeling in the U.S. over the war in Europe, though this is not mentioned in the story linked below. You can read a brief history of the company at: http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/gatx-corporation-history/ . Yours Aye, Garth Groff
On 3/18/19 5:49 PM, vapeurchapelon
wrote:
Hello Tony, being a German, I would be interested what exactly was german in that company. "Just" a German immigrant as a (co-)founder? Many thanks Johannes Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953Gesendet: Montag, 18. März 2019 um 16:28 Uhr Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...> An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Betreff: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID Elden Gatwood wrote:I did some more looking, and am pretty convinced: the letters and numbers cast into the bolster looks like GATC predecessor German-American Car Company (hence, GATC, not "General American", as is commonly thought, even though that is the modern version); name changed during WW2 because of "German" as a then dirty word.Actually that would be World War 1, not 2. Elden probably mistyped, but I wouldn't want wrong info to slide out there. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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UTLX X design dimensions
Earl Tuson
The 1906 CBD has plans for 6,000 gal UTLX X design tank cars:
https://archive.org/details/carbuildersdict00mast/page/n315 This drawing shows the bolster centers to be 17’, and the 5 horizontal course 76” ID tank length to be 25’ (26’6” over the heads.) PBL makes very high quality Sn3 equipment. Their 6,000 gallon tank molding is used in their Type V kit and their modified, wide frame, Type X (converted by the prototype from normal standard gauge Type X cars.) However, the PBL 3 horizontal course tank is ~77.5” OD but 26’6” long (28’ over the heads,) with 19’ bolster centers. Can anyone offer insight into these apparent discrepancies? Earl Tuson
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The Winter issue of The Keystone Modeler (#107) is now available
Folks,
The Winter 2019 issue of The Keystone Modeler (#107) is now available at the PRRT&HS web site:
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Assistant to the Webmaster, PRRT&HS
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID
vapeurchapelon
Hello Tony,
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being a German, I would be interested what exactly was german in that company. "Just" a German immigrant as a (co-)founder? Many thanks Johannes Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Montag, 18. März 2019 um 16:28 Uhr
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Re: PRR Flatcar
Charlie Vlk
The brakewheel and staff have been dismounted and are loose on the deck, being secured by the rod that is part of the load tie-down. There may be some additional hold-downs that we can't see.
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Charlie Vlk
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Soderblom Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 7:47 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR Flatcar Now that is a girder! Note the brake wheel is nowhere near the end… David Soderblom Baltimore MD USA drs@stsci.edu, 410-338-4543
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID
Dave Parker
If the car was built pre-WWI, then by definition it was built to an MCB (not ARA) standard, and it almost certainly was Spec II (not III). Dave Parker Riverside, CA
On Monday, March 18, 2019, 12:32:46 PM EDT, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
You are correct, Tony! Thanks for catching that! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 11:29 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID Elden Gatwood wrote: > I did some more looking, and am pretty convinced: the letters and numbers cast into the bolster looks like GATC predecessor German-American Car Company (hence, GATC, not "General American", as is commonly thought, even though that is the modern version); name changed during WW2 because of "German" as a then dirty word. Actually that would be World War 1, not 2. Elden probably mistyped, but I wouldn't want wrong info to slide out there. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 Blockedwww.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942
Ralph W. Brown
Hi Bob,
In my case, it usually means try a different browser. For some
reason, browsers seem to be picky about some things. Google can be
particularly difficult at times, but none I’ve found are perfect.
Pax,
Ralph
Brown
Portland, Maine PRRT&HS No. 3966 NMRA No. L2532 rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
From: Bob
Thompson
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 2:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] steam era freight car images, dating from
1900 to 1942 When
I try to access these images I get the following response: HTTP Status 404 - /luna/servlet/s/1xy326 type - Status report message - /luna/servlet/s/1xy326 description - The requested resource is not available. Apache Tomcat/7.0.67 Does anyone know what this means? I get the same response going to https://digitalcollections.uwyo.edu. I’m in the Great White
North (Canada).
Bob Thompson
North Saanich, BC
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Re: steam era freight car images, dating from 1900 to 1942
Bob Thompson
When I try to access these images I get the following response:
HTTP Status 404 - /luna/servlet/s/1xy326 type - Status report message - /luna/servlet/s/1xy326 description - The requested resource is not available. Apache Tomcat/7.0.67 Does anyone know what this means? I get the same response going to https://digitalcollections.uwyo.edu. I’m in the Great White North (Canada). Bob Thompson North Saanich, BC
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Re: NKP Consist (Rabbit Skins)
mopacfirst
I just looked at this image, and the accompanying information seems to say between 1917-1920.
Ron Merrick
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Re: NKP Consist (Rabbit Skins)
Here is a link to a photograph showing rabbit skins(?) about to be loaded into a Santa Fe refrigerator car in Liberal, Kansas: http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/228197/page/1 Of note is that SFRD 12801 (or is it 12901?), a Class Rr-U refrigerator car built in 1917 by AC&F. The accompanying information says the photograph was taken between 1910 and 1912, but this appears to be incorrect. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
You are correct, Tony! Thanks for catching that!
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Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 11:29 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID Elden Gatwood wrote: I did some more looking, and am pretty convinced: the letters and numbers cast into the bolster looks like GATC predecessor German-American Car Company (hence, GATC, not "General American", as is commonly thought, even though that is the modern version); name changed during WW2 because of "German" as a then dirty word.Actually that would be World War 1, not 2. Elden probably mistyped, but I wouldn't want wrong info to slide out there. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 Blockedwww.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID
Tony Thompson
Elden Gatwood wrote:
I did some more looking, and am pretty convinced: the letters and numbers cast into the bolster looks like GATC predecessor German-American Car Company (hence, GATC, not "General American", as is commonly thought, even though that is the modern version); name changed during WW2 because of "German" as a then dirty word.Actually that would be World War 1, not 2. Elden probably mistyped, but I wouldn't want wrong info to slide out there. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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FW: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Gary and all;
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I did some more looking, and am pretty convinced: the letters and numbers cast into the bolster looks like GATC predecessor German-American Car Company (hence, GATC, not "General American", as is commonly thought, even though that is the modern version); name changed during WW2 because of "German" as a then dirty word. I also think more certainly, 12-12 is the cast date. So, see ROX 813 on page 3 of attached. Kinda similar, no? Look at the inset double step and associated grab on the tank. I do not know for sure that this is the original tank, but it might be. The reason I think not is those 5 bands, and how they interact with the frame. Not very "as-built" in my opinion. The odd planks in between tank and cradle are also odd. I cannot tell if the radius is the same, but that much space is odd. Maybe too much wood rotted out.... The vents may have been on top of the missing cap (again, see ROX), or on a side facing away from us; hard to tell. Pre-WW1, this would have been an ARA car, probably ARA III tank. Freight cars are such fun! Elden
-----Original Message-----
From: gary roe [mailto:wabashrr@swbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 4:43 PM To: Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US) <Elden.J.Gatwood@usace.army.mil> Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID Elden, I have some detail pictures of this car; but was afraid they were too big to post on the list. I have attached a couple to this message. This car is currently at the Monticello Railway Museum in Monticello, Illinois. gary On Thursday, March 14, 2019 12:57:18 PM CDT, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote: Gary; Wow, that's a rare one: a 5-course radial construction tank with 5 bands, and wood cradle, inset stirrup steps, and a "different" looking underframe; probably pre-1915 construction. Some early early GATC cars looked similar to this, but this could also be a predecessor manufacturer. A better look at the bolsters could tell us more, but I cannot seem them. The smallish dome is also a more common feature of these early tank cars. We cannot see the dome vents, which is also an indicator of time period. The dome platform does not look original to the car; it may be a Wabash add. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> ] On Behalf Of Gary Roe Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 1:43 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Help With Wabash Tank Car ID The Wabash purchased 10 tank cars for company service from the American Cotton Oil Company in 1924. They were numbered 3160-3169, and had a capacity of 40 tons - 7700 gallons. Unfortunately, company freight car equipment registers do not state the builder of these cars. I would appreciate any help in determining who built them. A photo of one is located at this address: BlockedBlockedBlockedhttp://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4052881 Thank you in advance! gary roe quincy, illinois
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Re: [Proto-Layouts] Weight and sound in a Steam loco
Eric
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Thanks for posting. A key point that needs to be re-iterated is that the weight when added to a steam locomotive needs to be done so the balance point is over the center of the drivers. Philip Taylor
On Mar 18, 2019, at 7:00 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
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Re: Reading Flatcar Or Gondola?
gtws00
Nicely Done.
George Toman
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR Flatcar
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Agree; That is SOP on the PRR.
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Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 4:47 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR Flatcar I think they are just brake wheels and staffs that have been removed from the left and center flat cars to provide clearance for the load. The right-most flat car has a brake wheel in place. The left-most has no sign of a brake wheel that I can see. The center one has no brake wheel either. As for going around curves, I suspect the American Bridge Company's fixtures or whatever they are called allowed the load to rotate a bit. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, OR -----Original Message----- From: spsalso via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik=aol.com@groups.io> To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Sent: Sun, Mar 17, 2019 1:27 pm Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR Flatcar I do not believe the "brake-wheels" showing on the car sides actuate the brakes. Note that the far car has a vertical brake staff in the typical end location. The location of the "brake-wheels" gets me thinking they have something to do with adjusting the load supports. I do wonder how things worked when the cars encountered a curve. As in the full-train picture. Ed Edward Sutorik
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