Date   
Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (Arch Bar Trucks)

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

No shi… That was not the point of the discussion. The point was how long they were kept on PRR’s X29s. Unless you have information that indicates that PRR had some 1923-24 production X29s that had arch bar trucks at these dates, your comment is not helpful to answer the question that was being asked.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Mar 22, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Arch bar trucks were around for a bit longer.
June 1937: Nearly 377,000 freight cars (17% of all freight cars) equipped with arch bar trucks.
1940 - Arch bar trucks banned from interchange.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (Arch Bar Trucks)

Bob Chaparro
 

Arch bar trucks were around for a bit longer.

June 1937: Nearly 377,000 freight cars (17% of all freight cars) equipped with arch bar trucks.

1940 - Arch bar trucks banned from interchange.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

New Decals, New Website and New Email

Daniel Kohlberg
 

Hello everyone,

Three updates this month, worthy of a careful read:

1. I have released a new decal set for IC 53’/60’ GSC flatcars 1957+. Brown or black flatcar, white lettering. Enough lettering for up to three cars.
Photos, pricing/shipping details and other exciting information can be found on my website:
www.icgdecals.com
Scroll down for the new set: ICG-91

2. Effective immediately, my ICG Decal website has a new home:
www.icgdecals.com
Yes, my old Mindspring site is gone. And not a moment too soon. Please update your bookmarks, sticky notes, and tell all of your friends. It will take a while for Google and other search engines to catch up to the changes.

3. I have a new e-mail address, so please address all fan mail to me at:
dan@...

The old paducah address is gone. (But feel free to send any complaints there.)

Thanks,
Dan Kohlberg
Email: dan@...
Web: www.icgdecals.com

P.S. Attention Span Bonus! The new home for the St. Louis RPM website is www.icgdecals.com/stlrpm Spread the word, and hope to see you in July!

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Bill Welch
 

Not claiming the B-5 was their signature car, simply a very interesting looking steel boxcar unlike any other with its heavily riveted drop side sill. Another interesting N&W boxcars was the flush round roof boxcar. Also their rebuilt USRA SS with ladders and radial roof.

Not sure how this thread connects to " Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)"

Bill Welch

Re: HTP&D and WIF boxcars/reefers [was PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)]

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Yes. The 1958 WIF roster includes 101-199, 10' IH cars with a 3548 cubic foot capacity. There are only 10 cars shown in the series though.

Curiously, I don't see any WIF refrigerators, but they had some ex-FGEX cars. WIF 724 is shown on page 50 of John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, V. 3, and has a reweigh  of JAX1255. I suspect that was the transfer date.
Does anyone know when they left the WIF roster? I have an Accurail wood refrigerator lettered for WIF, but it apparently doesn't fit my 1958 layout.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 10:07 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

We discussed these years ago. Yes, they were 10-0 IH box cars built to the 1923 ARA design.

Some of them ended up on the West India Fruit roster.

Tim O'


On 3/21/2019 7:58 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Don,

In 1958 the HPT&D owned four boxcars, conveniently numbered 401-404. They had a 10' IH, and were 3548 cu ft. I don't know if these were the cars you referenced or not.

That said, circa 1944, MR published a "cyclopedia", from which I have a photocopy of an HPT&D 411 drawing, which had all the visual features of an X29 on steroids. The notes say the car was built in 1929. Sadly, this was an early wet photocopy I made in junior high school before clearer dry photocopiers became office necessities. The dimensional data is not legible, but appears to be 34XX or 35XX. The drawing, by the way, was scaled to 1/96.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 3:57 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello Bill Welch,
 
     Have an X-29 question that relates to the differences in height you have pointed out between
the real McCoy and the N&W version. Filing some photos taken in years past recently I came 
across a couple taken in 1972 near Thomasville, NC. As you might expect from the location 
these were High Point, Thomasville & Denton box cars that looked a lot like X-29's except that 
they, too, appear to have been taller. Being "Yo'all" rolling stock can you tell me much about them?
Can't help but wonder if the HP & T & D is still around and, if so, if any of the cars survive as they
would make great museum pieces in a places like Salisbury, NC.

Cordially, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Typo or not, the two cars do not appear to have the same proportions to my eye. CHP 5547 seems to be shorter, but this could be camera distortion. I suspect it is an X29, while 5598 could be an X28 or other clone. I can't figure out how to blow these photos up, short of logging onto the site (which I am not interested in doing for security reasons; I've recently been burned). Comparing wales in the doors and the ladders rungs could solve some this question, but the thumbnails are too small.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 10:04 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

it's obviously a typo. the cars are obviously the same height (compare the doors)

the cars are not listed in the 1975 ORER. probably in company service at the date of the photos.


On 3/21/2019 7:40 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Matt,

If the capacity information given with the second photos is correct, 3879 cubic feet, CHP 5598 cannot be an X29. X29s had a capacity of 3034 cubic feet. That is even bigger than the X28's 3278 cubic feet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 2:24 PM, Matt Herson wrote:

Jim,

 

Ferrocaril de Chihuahua al Pacifico are post 1960 cars and look to be ex PRR X29.  No number series but links for two cars:

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=63957

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=68122

 

Matt Herson



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale) Was reservations needed

al_brown03
 

Sunshine offered kits of both the N&W BP/BPa (kits 26.16 and 26.17) and the HPT&D/WIF cars (kits 102.10 and 102.12). To re-emphasize, they're different heights both from each other and from the X29.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale) Was reservations needed

Tim O'Connor
 


We discussed these years ago. Yes, they were 10-0 IH box cars built to the 1923 ARA design.

Some of them ended up on the West India Fruit roster.

Tim O'


On 3/21/2019 7:58 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Don,

In 1958 the HPT&D owned four boxcars, conveniently numbered 401-404. They had a 10' IH, and were 3548 cu ft. I don't know if these were the cars you referenced or not.

That said, circa 1944, MR published a "cyclopedia", from which I have a photocopy of an HPT&D 411 drawing, which had all the visual features of an X29 on steroids. The notes say the car was built in 1929. Sadly, this was an early wet photocopy I made in junior high school before clearer dry photocopiers became office necessities. The dimensional data is not legible, but appears to be 34XX or 35XX. The drawing, by the way, was scaled to 1/96.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 3:57 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello Bill Welch,
 
     Have an X-29 question that relates to the differences in height you have pointed out between
the real McCoy and the N&W version. Filing some photos taken in years past recently I came 
across a couple taken in 1972 near Thomasville, NC. As you might expect from the location 
these were High Point, Thomasville & Denton box cars that looked a lot like X-29's except that 
they, too, appear to have been taller. Being "Yo'all" rolling stock can you tell me much about them?
Can't help but wonder if the HP & T & D is still around and, if so, if any of the cars survive as they
would make great museum pieces in a places like Salisbury, NC.

Cordially, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Tim O'Connor
 


it's obviously a typo. the cars are obviously the same height (compare the doors)

the cars are not listed in the 1975 ORER. probably in company service at the date of the photos.


On 3/21/2019 7:40 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Matt,

If the capacity information given with the second photos is correct, 3879 cubic feet, CHP 5598 cannot be an X29. X29s had a capacity of 3034 cubic feet. That is even bigger than the X28's 3278 cubic feet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 2:24 PM, Matt Herson wrote:

Jim,

 

Ferrocaril de Chihuahua al Pacifico are post 1960 cars and look to be ex PRR X29.  No number series but links for two cars:

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=63957

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=68122

 

Matt Herson



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Pierre Oliver
 

Would you settle for both ?
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On Mar 21, 2019, at 8:52 PM, David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes the forthcoming the B-5 from Yarmouth
Which B5? The first batch of 500 had a flat roof and 5-4 ends, and the second order for 1,000 had a Murphy roof and 5-5 ends. In either case, they were no more statistically representative than any other half-dozen box car designs on N&W.

David Thompson


Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

David
 

Yes the forthcoming the B-5 from Yarmouth
Which B5? The first batch of 500 had a flat roof and 5-4 ends, and the second order for 1,000 had a Murphy roof and 5-5 ends. In either case, they were no more statistically representative than any other half-dozen box car designs on N&W.

David Thompson

Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

David
 

And there were a few classes of rebuilt all-steel box cars too, yes?
Yes, about half of the original class BS cars were rebuilt to widebody B7 and B7a in the late '40s, and the wagontop class B1 and B2 were rebuilt with new roofs and doors in the mid-'50s.

David Thompson

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Bruce and List Members,
 
Bruce wrote: “I don't believe that the arch bars lasted beyond 1930”
 
Images showing PRR X29 cars with archbar trucks are quite rare. But I do have one image that post-dates 1930 showing a car equipped with archbar trucks. Here is all I have on the topic:
 
 
I have a builders photo of brand new PRR 569430 equipped as such dated 7-24, painted in center bar no Keystone lettering.
 
I also have an in-service photo of PRR 570994 with archbar trucks and center bar no Keystone lettering - no date indicated.
 
I have an in-service photo of an unidentified X29 with arch bar trucks an center bar no Keystone lettering, date is given as 1926.
 
I also have an in-service photo of PRR 570862 dated Sep 1932 with archbar trucks and circle Keystone lettering. The build date appears to read 10-24.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 10:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)
 

Ralph,

 

The old undec kits came with both brake sprues, so hopefully that would continue.

 

To clarify, the '28 style body, as used as a descriptor refers to the rivet and side sheet overlap pattern. The 1932-34 cars have a 1928 "body" with dreadnought ends.

 

All production except early was built with 2D-F8 trucks. The early cars may have switched to 2D-F8 in the later production of these cars, or they may have been converted later, but it would appear not much later. I don't believe that the arch bars lasted beyond 1930.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, Al




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ralph W. Brown <rbrown51@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 9:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)
 
Hi Bruce, et al.,
 
Thanks for the heads up.
 
I’m interested in the undec kits, which I hope would come with KD brakes or maybe parts for both KD and AB brakes.  The Intermountain website lists five undec kits with the notation “TBD” in the product status column.  The first two of those are described as “1928” bodies, RC-7000 with steel plate ends, and RC-7001 with Dreadnaught ends.  RC-7002 is described as having a “1924” body with steel plate ends; RC-7003 is described as having an AAR body with steel plate ends; and RC-7004 is described as having a “1924” body with patches and steel plate ends.  All five descriptions are silent with regard to brakes.
 
According to the article in the March 2004 TKM, all except “those built in 1932 and 1934 had two-piece flat ends.”  The Dreadnaught ends were used only on the “final two production runs.” 
 
The website doesn’t say anything about trucks either.  The TKM article states the the 1924 cars were built with 2D-F1 arch bar trucks, the majority of which were later replace with 2D-F8 trucks.  I infer from the article that the 1928 and subsequent years’ cars were built with 2D-F8 trucks, although some X29 boxcars, both freight and express service cars, were “seen” with 2D-F12 coil-elliptic trucks, but doesn’t say when.  Also, at least PRR 100688, “one of the last cars built,” was equipped at some point with GSC BX express trucks, but again the article doesn’t say when.
 
Question: Anyone know when the 1924 cars’ 2D-F1 trucks were replaced with 2D-F8 trucks?
 
The TKM article contains a wealth of other information about the details of these cars, as does another article in the April 2004 TKM dealing with X29 boxcars in express service.
 
Anyway, here’s hoping the various painted and lettered cars get enough reservations to move them on to production, and that the undec kits are produced as well.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)
 
Folks,
 
Please be aware, that at least based on the artwork displayed by Intermountain, the brakes on these prospective car releases are incorrect.
 
The artwork (and description) indicates that these cars use the RC patch panel tooling, which, to the best of my knowledge, was only done for the mid-production (1928) body X29 by RC. Although not clear, the artwork appears to show plate ends, which is expected. The artwork also show a transverse early AB reservoir. These were only applied to the 1932 or later production X29s which are distinguished by the application of Dreadnaught ends. Subsequent plate end X29 conversions to AB brakes utilized the more well known AB reservoir, hung longitudinally under the carbody. Thus the offering by IM is incorrectly detailed with respect to the type and location of the brake reservoir (and some minor differences with brake levers as well).
 
 
Regards
Bruce
 
Bruce F. Smith           
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Tuesday, March 19, 2019, 12:58:52 PM CDT, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:
 
 
Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)
The Intermountain Railway Company (https://www.intermountain-railway.com/)
will produce two versions of Pennsylvania Railroad's iconic X29 boxcar, and up to nine variants for other railroads, if the company receives enough advance reservations. To date, reservation have been lagging.
Here are the two PRR versions, each with six road numbers:
To reserve your car, InterMountain says, "... please let your favorite hobby dealer know that you would like the item. Reservations are NO RISK to you, we do not require any deposit and you may cancel your reservation at any time.
X29 boxcars also can be reserved for the following railroads:
Baltimore & Ohio
Central RR of New Jersey
Chicago Great Western
Ferrocaril de Chihuahua al Pacifico
Lehigh & New England
Maine Central
Nickel Plate Road
Norfolk & Western
United States Army
I have no connection, financial or otherwise, to InterMountain.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
 

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Matt Herson
 

The capacity information on both cars is metric (KGS).  Without doing the math they sure look like X29 cars.  5547 has a build date of 4-25 and 5598 build date 4-23 that CHP could have wrong.  There are other type cars between the two numbers so the series in not all X29 cars.

 

Matt Herson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 7:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

 

Matt,

If the capacity information given with the second photos is correct, 3879 cubic feet, CHP 5598 cannot be an X29. X29s had a capacity of 3034 cubic feet. That is even bigger than the X28's 3278 cubic feet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 2:24 PM, Matt Herson wrote:

Jim,

 

Ferrocaril de Chihuahua al Pacifico are post 1960 cars and look to be ex PRR X29.  No number series but links for two cars:

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=63957

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=68122

 

Matt Herson

 

 

 

 

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale) Was reservations needed

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Don,

In 1958 the HPT&D owned four boxcars, conveniently numbered 401-404. They had a 10' IH, and were 3548 cu ft. I don't know if these were the cars you referenced or not.

That said, circa 1944, MR published a "cyclopedia", from which I have a photocopy of an HPT&D 411 drawing, which had all the visual features of an X29 on steroids. The notes say the car was built in 1929. Sadly, this was an early wet photocopy I made in junior high school before clearer dry photocopiers became office necessities. The dimensional data is not legible, but appears to be 34XX or 35XX. The drawing, by the way, was scaled to 1/96.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 3:57 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello Bill Welch,
 
     Have an X-29 question that relates to the differences in height you have pointed out between
the real McCoy and the N&W version. Filing some photos taken in years past recently I came 
across a couple taken in 1972 near Thomasville, NC. As you might expect from the location 
these were High Point, Thomasville & Denton box cars that looked a lot like X-29's except that 
they, too, appear to have been taller. Being "Yo'all" rolling stock can you tell me much about them?
Can't help but wonder if the HP & T & D is still around and, if so, if any of the cars survive as they
would make great museum pieces in a places like Salisbury, NC.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Matt,

If the capacity information given with the second photos is correct, 3879 cubic feet, CHP 5598 cannot be an X29. X29s had a capacity of 3034 cubic feet. That is even bigger than the X28's 3278 cubic feet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 2:24 PM, Matt Herson wrote:

Jim,

 

Ferrocaril de Chihuahua al Pacifico are post 1960 cars and look to be ex PRR X29.  No number series but links for two cars:

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=63957

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=68122

 

Matt Herson

 

 

 



Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Yes the forthcoming the B-5 from Yarmouth.

Bill Welch
However, was there a better more representative XM car for the N&W (first half 1950s era) than the X29?
Not really, no. Before 1925, the prewar 36' double-sheathed boxes in classes BG, BH, and BI (plus the ventilators in class BJ) would have been predominant. After 1955, 40' PS-1s would be a good representative. During the intervening thirty years, N&W would pick a particular design and buy or build 500, 1000, or 1500 of it, then after 5-7 years or so pick a significantly different design and buy or build several groups of that, etc. so that no single design comprised more than 20-30% of the box car fleet.

David Thompso

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Bill Welch
 

. ..and if you looked at my PDF I highlight the differences in each of the six classes, including the length of the Running Boards where I had  the information. Also covered is truck spacing for the models I am building.

Bill Welch

Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Tim O'Connor
 

And there were a few classes of rebuilt all-steel box cars too, yes?

The N&W was frugal to a fault!

On 3/21/2019 4:39 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
However, was there a better more representative XM car for the N&W (first half 1950s era) than the X29?
Not really, no. Before 1925, the prewar 36' double-sheathed boxes in classes BG, BH, and BI (plus the ventilators in class BJ) would have been predominant. After 1955, 40' PS-1s would be a good representative. During the intervening thirty years, N&W would pick a particular design and buy or build 500, 1000, or 1500 of it, then after 5-7 years or so pick a significantly different design and buy or build several groups of that, etc. so that no single design comprised more than 20-30% of the box car fleet.

David Thompson
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale) Was reservations needed

A&Y Dave in MD
 

More info on the '23 design mod:
http://steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/hptd424main.html 

And I think this is the '37 design car :
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/original-w-negative-high-point-1933733409

and a nice story on the history book published  posthumously after the author's untimely death
https://www.the-dispatch.com/lifestyle/20101229/railroad-book-realizes-mans-last-wish

Dave Bott

Thursday, March 21, 2019, 3:57:31 PM, you wrote:


Hello Bill Welch,
 
     Have an X-29 question that relates to the differences in height you have pointed out between
the real McCoy and the N&W version. Filing some photos taken in years past recently I came
across a couple taken in 1972 near Thomasville, NC. As you might expect from the location
these were High Point, Thomasville & Denton box cars that looked a lot like X-29's except that
they, too, appear to have been taller. Being "Yo'all" rolling stock can you tell me much about them?
Can't help but wonder if the HP & T & D is still around and, if so, if any of the cars survive as they
would make great museum pieces in a places like Salisbury, NC.

Cordially, Don Valentine



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC