Date   

What Are These?

Bob Chaparro
 

What is the purpose of this hardware (circled in red) on the end of the boxcar?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

And, if you really want more: ;)

PRR also had classes FN and FNA, that were real well hole flats. Originally 37 (!) FN were constructed between 1902 and 1915, for transporting things like ship screws, suspended in the hole on blocking, for maximum vertical clearance. Twenty FN were converted to FNA between 1926 and 1929 by putting in a floor that could be removed in pieces. That floor was only 17" above the rails. Aside from these, there were only a handful of similar cars. F&C's B&M well flat is another great model.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hi Bill,

It appears there were only two Class F28 flats car, 435491 and 435492, both built at Altoona in August of 1927.

There were sixteen Class F33 flat cars, built in multiple orders between 1938 and 1942.

The foregoing info is from the PRRT&HS’s flat car book. Thank you Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan.

Pax,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com


From: Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

And, for a shot of an F49 in well "hole" service, see the cover photo on the PRR flat car book. The F49 was a totally unique car, with two variations in class. Unfortunately for this group, built in 1965, IIRC, but a very, very cool car, indeed.

PRR had to figure out a way of accommodating tall loads, with a very conservative Engineering staff. The idea that you wanted to maintain structural integrity, while allowing a load to drop right down to near rail height was uncomfortable. That some of these classes had removable beams to allow a load to drop below floor height was a great solution.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Ralph Brown wrote:

"'Page 59 of your book says "Although only 16 in number, the class was significant, and seen all over the country in a variety of services...' What did I miss to get from 16 to 20 cars?"

The ORER listing over the years show 16 cars. Elden probably misremembered. Happens sometimes...it's a lot tougher to create content than questions.


Ben Hom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Yep. Thanks, Ben!

No book handy.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Ralph Brown wrote:

"'Page 59 of your book says "Although only 16 in number, the class was significant, and seen all over the country in a variety of services...' What did I miss to get from 16 to 20 cars?"

The ORER listing over the years show 16 cars. Elden probably misremembered. Happens sometimes...it's a lot tougher to create content than questions.


Ben Hom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Benjamin Hom
 

Ralph Brown wrote:
"'Page 59 of your book says "Although only 16 in number, the class was significant, and seen all over the country in a variety of services...' What did I miss to get from 16 to 20 cars?"

The ORER listing over the years show 16 cars.  Elden probably misremembered.  Happens sometimes...it's a lot tougher to create content than questions.


Ben Hom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Elden,

Page 59 of your book says "Although only 16 in number, the class was significant, and seen all over the country in a variety of services . . ." What did I miss to get from 16 to 20 cars?

Pax,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Bill;

IIRC, there were 20 F33 and only 2 F28's.

And see fun attachments.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Bill Welch
 

thank you very much Eldon, I am trying to figure out which of the F&C kits to purchase and wanted something common vs exotic or rare.

Bill Welch


Re: Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Bill,
 
It appears there were only two Class F28 flats car, 435491 and 435492, both built at Altoona in August of 1927.
 
There were sixteen Class F33 flat cars, built in multiple orders between 1938 and 1942.
 
The foregoing info is from the PRRT&HS’s flat car book.  Thank you Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question
 
Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bill;

And , part 2, neither was a well "hole" flat. Those were only class F37B, and sometimes F49 with removal of floor boards. There were also some F25 sub-classes that were virtually well holes flats, but for various low-profile interior supports for diagonal loading.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bill;

IIRC, there were 20 F33 and only 2 F28's.

And see fun attachments.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Bill Welch
 

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


High Point Thomasville & Denton

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Here are few photos of the interesting cars. It looks like their doors were replaced in the late 1940's/early 1950's. Maybe that is when the broad light stripe was added. I am not sure if the stripe was white or cream. The original door is very interesting to me. The attached blurb is from one of my Richard Prince books, probably ACL or SAL. Ten of the cars were sold to West India Fruit.

If I can sort out the stripe color, I might do my Sunshine model in that scheme on one side, original scheme and door on the other side.

Bill Welch


Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (Arch Bar Trucks)

Dave Parker
 

Bruce:

OK, but what is the evidence that the PRR bothered to swap out the arch-bar trucks within ~6 years of construction on the early X29s that were so equipped?  Unless somebody has a cache of photos that I have not seen, the evidence into and through the 1930s is minuscule relative to the number of cars built.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA






Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (Arch Bar Trucks)

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

No shi… That was not the point of the discussion. The point was how long they were kept on PRR’s X29s. Unless you have information that indicates that PRR had some 1923-24 production X29s that had arch bar trucks at these dates, your comment is not helpful to answer the question that was being asked.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Mar 22, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Arch bar trucks were around for a bit longer.
June 1937: Nearly 377,000 freight cars (17% of all freight cars) equipped with arch bar trucks.
1940 - Arch bar trucks banned from interchange.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (Arch Bar Trucks)

Bob Chaparro
 

Arch bar trucks were around for a bit longer.

June 1937: Nearly 377,000 freight cars (17% of all freight cars) equipped with arch bar trucks.

1940 - Arch bar trucks banned from interchange.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


New Decals, New Website and New Email

Daniel Kohlberg
 

Hello everyone,

Three updates this month, worthy of a careful read:

1. I have released a new decal set for IC 53’/60’ GSC flatcars 1957+. Brown or black flatcar, white lettering. Enough lettering for up to three cars.
Photos, pricing/shipping details and other exciting information can be found on my website:
www.icgdecals.com
Scroll down for the new set: ICG-91

2. Effective immediately, my ICG Decal website has a new home:
www.icgdecals.com
Yes, my old Mindspring site is gone. And not a moment too soon. Please update your bookmarks, sticky notes, and tell all of your friends. It will take a while for Google and other search engines to catch up to the changes.

3. I have a new e-mail address, so please address all fan mail to me at:
dan@...

The old paducah address is gone. (But feel free to send any complaints there.)

Thanks,
Dan Kohlberg
Email: dan@...
Web: www.icgdecals.com

P.S. Attention Span Bonus! The new home for the St. Louis RPM website is www.icgdecals.com/stlrpm Spread the word, and hope to see you in July!


Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Bill Welch
 

Not claiming the B-5 was their signature car, simply a very interesting looking steel boxcar unlike any other with its heavily riveted drop side sill. Another interesting N&W boxcars was the flush round roof boxcar. Also their rebuilt USRA SS with ladders and radial roof.

Not sure how this thread connects to " Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)"

Bill Welch


Re: HTP&D and WIF boxcars/reefers [was PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)]

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Yes. The 1958 WIF roster includes 101-199, 10' IH cars with a 3548 cubic foot capacity. There are only 10 cars shown in the series though.

Curiously, I don't see any WIF refrigerators, but they had some ex-FGEX cars. WIF 724 is shown on page 50 of John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, V. 3, and has a reweigh  of JAX1255. I suspect that was the transfer date.
Does anyone know when they left the WIF roster? I have an Accurail wood refrigerator lettered for WIF, but it apparently doesn't fit my 1958 layout.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 10:07 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

We discussed these years ago. Yes, they were 10-0 IH box cars built to the 1923 ARA design.

Some of them ended up on the West India Fruit roster.

Tim O'


On 3/21/2019 7:58 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Don,

In 1958 the HPT&D owned four boxcars, conveniently numbered 401-404. They had a 10' IH, and were 3548 cu ft. I don't know if these were the cars you referenced or not.

That said, circa 1944, MR published a "cyclopedia", from which I have a photocopy of an HPT&D 411 drawing, which had all the visual features of an X29 on steroids. The notes say the car was built in 1929. Sadly, this was an early wet photocopy I made in junior high school before clearer dry photocopiers became office necessities. The dimensional data is not legible, but appears to be 34XX or 35XX. The drawing, by the way, was scaled to 1/96.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 3:57 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello Bill Welch,
 
     Have an X-29 question that relates to the differences in height you have pointed out between
the real McCoy and the N&W version. Filing some photos taken in years past recently I came 
across a couple taken in 1972 near Thomasville, NC. As you might expect from the location 
these were High Point, Thomasville & Denton box cars that looked a lot like X-29's except that 
they, too, appear to have been taller. Being "Yo'all" rolling stock can you tell me much about them?
Can't help but wonder if the HP & T & D is still around and, if so, if any of the cars survive as they
would make great museum pieces in a places like Salisbury, NC.

Cordially, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Reservations Needed: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale)

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Typo or not, the two cars do not appear to have the same proportions to my eye. CHP 5547 seems to be shorter, but this could be camera distortion. I suspect it is an X29, while 5598 could be an X28 or other clone. I can't figure out how to blow these photos up, short of logging onto the site (which I am not interested in doing for security reasons; I've recently been burned). Comparing wales in the doors and the ladders rungs could solve some this question, but the thumbnails are too small.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 10:04 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

it's obviously a typo. the cars are obviously the same height (compare the doors)

the cars are not listed in the 1975 ORER. probably in company service at the date of the photos.


On 3/21/2019 7:40 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Matt,

If the capacity information given with the second photos is correct, 3879 cubic feet, CHP 5598 cannot be an X29. X29s had a capacity of 3034 cubic feet. That is even bigger than the X28's 3278 cubic feet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/21/19 2:24 PM, Matt Herson wrote:

Jim,

 

Ferrocaril de Chihuahua al Pacifico are post 1960 cars and look to be ex PRR X29.  No number series but links for two cars:

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=63957

 

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=68122

 

Matt Herson



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PRR X29 Boxcar (HO Scale) Was reservations needed

al_brown03
 

Sunshine offered kits of both the N&W BP/BPa (kits 26.16 and 26.17) and the HPT&D/WIF cars (kits 102.10 and 102.12). To re-emphasize, they're different heights both from each other and from the X29.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.