Date   

Re: High Point Thomasville & Denton

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

     Thanks for the additional HPT&D photos, Bill. They sure hit the spot. Given that mine were taken in Sept. 1972 and seem to post date the latest photo by ten years I need to find it in the large box of photos and neg. I am sorting and post it as well. In my
photo the cars were painted and aluminum color and IIRC clearly stenciled "For Furniture Loading", which in the part of No. Car.
should not surprise anyone. Given that the younger generations don't like "case goods" (good quality hardwood furniture) and
seem to prefer IKEA I wonder how many of the better furniture manufacturers in that area survive as many further north no longer do.

Thanks again Bill,  Don Valentine
 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Chuck Cover
 

Bill,

 

You can kit-bash the PRR F34.  See the Keystone Modeler #104, Spring 2018.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Bill Welch
 

Yes I have the little B&M kit. I am looking at these three PRR kits:

8170 - PRR F29 Depressed Center Flatcar ONE PIECE BODY with Decals and Buckeye Trucks Less Wheels $44.99

8470 - PRR F34 ONE PIECE BODY Heavy Duty Flat Car with Trucks and Decals $49.99

6940 - PRR F33 Well Hole Flatcar ONE PIECE BODY With Decals and Trucks Less Wheels $41.99

Bill Welch


Re: High Point Thomasville & Denton

Bill Welch
 

Sunshine offered kits for both West India Fruit and HPT&D. I have both fortunately. They were among the last offered.

BTW, it has not been mentioned but CNJ had a similar 1.5 door car, sans Duryea underframe w/a Hutchins roof, also done by Sunshine

Bill Welch


Re: What Are These?

Dennis Storzek
 

As others have said they are the anchor castings for diagonal rods that attach to the side sill in the vicinity of the body bolster. These were common on double sheathed wood frame cars with steel ends. All the NYCS 36 and 40 foot DS cars had them and the feature carried over into the USRA DS boxcar. Single sheathed cars typically made use of a flat strap for the same function.

Dennis Storzek


Re: High Point Thomasville & Denton

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Bill,

Thanks for the great pictures. That really is an interesting door. I don't think I've seen that style before. Wonder if anyone makes one in HO scale?

oldline1


Re: What Are These?

Rich C
 

Tim, I never seen marker brackets that low on the ends before, although to me it makes better sense when climbing the grabs and attaching them. They generally are in the middle quadrant on the ends.

Rich Christie

On Friday, March 22, 2019, 1:36:31 PM CDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Brackets to hold marker lamps?


On 3/22/2019 2:33 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

What is the purpose of this hardware (circled in red) on the end of the boxcar?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Attachments:


Re: What Are These?

Paul Doggett
 

Aa ATSF Bx11 you can clearly see the diagonal brace.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 




On 22 Mar 2019, at 18:50, Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:

An adjustable diagonal brace it’s quite prominent on this Wabash car the ATSF also had them on I think the Bx11 but that was external.

Paul Doggett.    England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 

<image1.jpeg>


On 22 Mar 2019, at 18:37, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Brackets to hold marker lamps?


On 3/22/2019 2:33 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

What is the purpose of this hardware (circled in red) on the end of the boxcar?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Attachments:


Re: What Are These?

Paul Doggett
 

An adjustable diagonal brace it’s quite prominent on this Wabash car the ATSF also had them on I think the Bx11 but that was external.

Paul Doggett.    England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 




On 22 Mar 2019, at 18:37, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Brackets to hold marker lamps?


On 3/22/2019 2:33 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

What is the purpose of this hardware (circled in red) on the end of the boxcar?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Attachments:


Re: What Are These?

Tim O'Connor
 


Brackets to hold marker lamps?


On 3/22/2019 2:33 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

What is the purpose of this hardware (circled in red) on the end of the boxcar?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Attachments:

_._,_._,_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


What Are These?

Bob Chaparro
 

What is the purpose of this hardware (circled in red) on the end of the boxcar?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

And, if you really want more: ;)

PRR also had classes FN and FNA, that were real well hole flats. Originally 37 (!) FN were constructed between 1902 and 1915, for transporting things like ship screws, suspended in the hole on blocking, for maximum vertical clearance. Twenty FN were converted to FNA between 1926 and 1929 by putting in a floor that could be removed in pieces. That floor was only 17" above the rails. Aside from these, there were only a handful of similar cars. F&C's B&M well flat is another great model.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hi Bill,

It appears there were only two Class F28 flats car, 435491 and 435492, both built at Altoona in August of 1927.

There were sixteen Class F33 flat cars, built in multiple orders between 1938 and 1942.

The foregoing info is from the PRRT&HS’s flat car book. Thank you Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan.

Pax,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com


From: Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

And, for a shot of an F49 in well "hole" service, see the cover photo on the PRR flat car book. The F49 was a totally unique car, with two variations in class. Unfortunately for this group, built in 1965, IIRC, but a very, very cool car, indeed.

PRR had to figure out a way of accommodating tall loads, with a very conservative Engineering staff. The idea that you wanted to maintain structural integrity, while allowing a load to drop right down to near rail height was uncomfortable. That some of these classes had removable beams to allow a load to drop below floor height was a great solution.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Ralph Brown wrote:

"'Page 59 of your book says "Although only 16 in number, the class was significant, and seen all over the country in a variety of services...' What did I miss to get from 16 to 20 cars?"

The ORER listing over the years show 16 cars. Elden probably misremembered. Happens sometimes...it's a lot tougher to create content than questions.


Ben Hom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Yep. Thanks, Ben!

No book handy.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Ralph Brown wrote:

"'Page 59 of your book says "Although only 16 in number, the class was significant, and seen all over the country in a variety of services...' What did I miss to get from 16 to 20 cars?"

The ORER listing over the years show 16 cars. Elden probably misremembered. Happens sometimes...it's a lot tougher to create content than questions.


Ben Hom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Benjamin Hom
 

Ralph Brown wrote:
"'Page 59 of your book says "Although only 16 in number, the class was significant, and seen all over the country in a variety of services...' What did I miss to get from 16 to 20 cars?"

The ORER listing over the years show 16 cars.  Elden probably misremembered.  Happens sometimes...it's a lot tougher to create content than questions.


Ben Hom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Elden,

Page 59 of your book says "Although only 16 in number, the class was significant, and seen all over the country in a variety of services . . ." What did I miss to get from 16 to 20 cars?

Pax,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Bill;

IIRC, there were 20 F33 and only 2 F28's.

And see fun attachments.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Bill Welch
 

thank you very much Eldon, I am trying to figure out which of the F&C kits to purchase and wanted something common vs exotic or rare.

Bill Welch


Re: Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Bill,
 
It appears there were only two Class F28 flats car, 435491 and 435492, both built at Altoona in August of 1927.
 
There were sixteen Class F33 flat cars, built in multiple orders between 1938 and 1942.
 
The foregoing info is from the PRRT&HS’s flat car book.  Thank you Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question
 
Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bill;

And , part 2, neither was a well "hole" flat. Those were only class F37B, and sometimes F49 with removal of floor boards. There were also some F25 sub-classes that were virtually well holes flats, but for various low-profile interior supports for diagonal loading.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bill;

IIRC, there were 20 F33 and only 2 F28's.

And see fun attachments.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pennsy Well-Hole Flats Question

Hoping one of the PRR modelers here can can help me. Which of their Well Hole Flats was most common, their F28 or the F33?

Thank you!
Bill Welch

25361 - 25380 of 188504