Date   

Re: Gondola Load

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Ed,

From my observation, the WP was very parsimonious about repainting older rolling stock, and some boxcars went right into MW service in the 1970s with their original white lettering. Remember, the WP flirted with bankruptcy during their whole long existence (some have said it was an "on-going affair"). Repainting a 1947 car to the 1949 aluminum scheme would have been rare,
though I'm sure it did happen during major repairs. The aluminum scheme was discontinued in mid-1955 after just six years (50' single-door PS-1s 36001-36025 delivered in June 1955 where probably the last purchased with aluminum lettering). Repainting the 1947 cars in the 1955-1962 yellow "Feather River Route" lettering without a herald would have been more likely.

The switch to aluminum lettering apparently happened in 1949. In his book WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT, Jim Eager says that gondolas 6300-6400 were the first cars to wear the aluminum lettering. Supposedly the change was themed to the inauguration of the California Zephyr.

As far as I can tell from color photographs, the 1951 PS-1s
(20821-21400) were the first WP boxcars to be delivered with black ends. I could be wrong about this, but I think the 1947 cars were all-FCR and came with white lettering.

The black ends and roof were not painted. This was car cement, and was both difficult and expensive to remove. If it was in good condition, only the sides would have been repainted. Example: The original twenty silver PS-1 boxcars in series 19501-19520 built by Pullman in 1951 were silver on their ends and roofs. When it was decided in 1953 to expand the class by having Pullman add "compartmentizers" to 22 more cars from the main series (20821-21400), WP balked at the expense of having Pullman blast off the car cement, and the cars returned to the WP as 19521-19542 with their black ends and roofs. It appears that with the 1955 repaints, any remaining car cement was removed, as I have never seen a car (or photo) in this paint scheme with black ends. Ditto for DF/Compartmentizer/load restrainer boxcars that were repainted into the 1957/58 small orange feather and "Rides Like a Feather" paint scheme boxcars. All of these cars, including
19521-19542, received FCR ends and roofs. Apparently by then the WP had gotten over their cheapness regarding car cement, or it was in such bad condition the remainder had to be removed.

Keep in mind that consistency was never a strong suit on the WP. What the bean counters in San Francisco decided was sometimes ignored by the Jeffrey Shops crews in Sacramento. The WP was also a great experimenter (when they had the cash), always looking for some new technology or image that would give them an edge over the SP. Their boxcars were rolling billboards to these changes.

The WP wasn't particularly good about preserving their records either. The CSRM Library in Sacramento might have some painting standards. I obtained a detailed large scale drawing of the 16001 series boxcars from them, which was actually an early painting standards sheet.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 4/2/19 12:26 AM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Apr 1, 2019, at 4:37 PM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

The Branchline car was their stock number 1612, a 1947 car with 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends and a 7' door. Branchline's car came with silver lettering. It should have been white, and this was corrected on the special run Branchline did for the PCR NMRA.

Garth,
The box cars offered by Branchline Trains were typically available in a 4-pack, which in some cases represented a mix of both new and repainted cars, plus a 5th model available to be bought as a single car. The 4-packs were often broken up by hobby shops and sold individually. 

For the BT 1612 models (20554, 20558, 20623, 20712, 20790) all five were intended to represent repainted cars with aluminum stencils. The model I have is the single model WP 20623 with SAC 6-52 reweigh stencils following essentially the same paint & lettering used on 580 WP 20821-21400 PS-1 box cars built in late 1951 that received aluminum stencils and black roof & ends. 

The later WP models with BT 2003 catalogue number via the PCR Regional NMRA Convention as denoted on the label, should have New 8-47 stencils (possibly other months), white stencils, and a Mount Vernon builder badge. 

I recall that when BT was making plans to produce these WP models that photos of early to mid-1950s repainted cars with aluminum stencils were difficult to locate, and the roof & end colors were not definitive. Does anyone know if repainted cars from WP 20551-20800 retained their original black roof & ends, or were the roof & ends painted the same color as the sides? I ask because to this day I don’t know for sure what the roof & end color of my model should be. 

Also, I’m curious if there is a WP box car paint/stencil drawing that denotes a revision & date when the change from white to aluminum stencils was made & if such a drawing defines the roof & ends for repainted cars with aluminum stencils during the early 1950s & before the circa June 1955 change to yellow stencils.

If the paint/stencil drawings aren’t known to exist, in the 17 years that have passed since these Branchline WP models were released circa May 2002, has one or more definitive photos been located to help determine the color of the roof & ends on repainted WP 20551-20800 series box cars?
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Re: Throwback Tuesday: Ulrich GS Gon Ad, Model Railroader, October 1959

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Ben and friends

Great nostalgia. Besides the Ulrich gondolas, the dump truck is one of theirs, and these are like Gold when you can find them. The little people are Weston Mini Figures, which were continued by Campbell until just a few years ago. They were a little cartoonish when compared modern plastic offerings, but had good detail, nice painting, and great character.

Despite having cast on grabs, these gondolas still look good, and AFAIK, are the only models of this very common design. I have three. Despite being cast in what I think is zamak, they don't show any deterioration. Some other 1950s zamak models I have owned crumbled (an Ulrich composite mill gondola and a Roundhouse ore hopper). I am pretty sure two of mine are original Ulrich (I bought one new in the box in the 1970s), but the third is a more recent Walthers with plastic brake parts.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/2/19 12:11 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Ulrich GS Gon ad, October 1959 issue of Model Railroader.


Ben Hom


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Ulrich GS Gon Ad, Model Railroader, October 1959

Tony Thompson
 

Us SP modelers have long had to roster a bunch of these Ulrich cars to represent the thousands of Enterprise GS gons that SP bought in the 1920s. They were truly durable, remaining in service well into the 1960s on SP. As models, the Ulrich cars are not bad, though the white metal die castings are VERY hard and all but unworkable for those wishing to add wire grab irons. I have succeeded in adding improved brake gear.

Tony Thompson




Re: Gondola Load

Ed Hawkins
 


On Apr 1, 2019, at 4:37 PM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

The Branchline car was their stock number 1612, a 1947 car with 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends and a 7' door. Branchline's car came with silver lettering. It should have been white, and this was corrected on the special run Branchline did for the PCR NMRA.

Garth,
The box cars offered by Branchline Trains were typically available in a 4-pack, which in some cases represented a mix of both new and repainted cars, plus a 5th model available to be bought as a single car. The 4-packs were often broken up by hobby shops and sold individually. 

For the BT 1612 models (20554, 20558, 20623, 20712, 20790) all five were intended to represent repainted cars with aluminum stencils. The model I have is the single model WP 20623 with SAC 6-52 reweigh stencils following essentially the same paint & lettering used on 580 WP 20821-21400 PS-1 box cars built in late 1951 that received aluminum stencils and black roof & ends. 

The later WP models with BT 2003 catalogue number via the PCR Regional NMRA Convention as denoted on the label, should have New 8-47 stencils (possibly other months), white stencils, and a Mount Vernon builder badge. 

I recall that when BT was making plans to produce these WP models that photos of early to mid-1950s repainted cars with aluminum stencils were difficult to locate, and the roof & end colors were not definitive. Does anyone know if repainted cars from WP 20551-20800 retained their original black roof & ends, or were the roof & ends painted the same color as the sides? I ask because to this day I don’t know for sure what the roof & end color of my model should be. 

Also, I’m curious if there is a WP box car paint/stencil drawing that denotes a revision & date when the change from white to aluminum stencils was made & if such a drawing defines the roof & ends for repainted cars with aluminum stencils during the early 1950s & before the circa June 1955 change to yellow stencils.

If the paint/stencil drawings aren’t known to exist, in the 17 years that have passed since these Branchline WP models were released circa May 2002, has one or more definitive photos been located to help determine the color of the roof & ends on repainted WP 20551-20800 series box cars?
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Throwback Tuesday: Ulrich GS Gon Ad, Model Railroader, October 1959

Benjamin Hom
 

Ulrich GS Gon ad, October 1959 issue of Model Railroader.


Ben Hom


Re: Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198

Rob M.
 

My, my.  Bulldog Macks and fabricated steel everywhere.   The end shot of the gon on the curve is interesting.   The off-tracking due to the radii is oh so evident (photo *5042).

Rob Mondichak.


Re: Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198

Schuyler Larrabee
 

According to my April 1950 ORER, 16 of these cars remained in service.  They’re noted as having wood floors, but no word on whether the sides were sill wood or had been upgraded to steel.

 

Schuyler

 


Re: WP HO Car List

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

YEAH!  Now all I have to do is to figure out how to access "files",

Technologically Challenged:

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Date: 4/1/19 2:43 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WP HO Car List

Friends,

Thank you all for your input to my Western Pacific HO Car List. Thanks to the help so many of you offered, version 5 is now complete with nearly all the changes suggested. I will post it to the files section of our web site in a day or two. This all I will do with it for now, but in a year or so I may do another update.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


Re: WP HO Car List

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

YEAH!  Now all I have to do is to figure out how to access "files",

Technologically Challenged:

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Date: 4/1/19 2:43 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WP HO Car List

Friends,

Thank you all for your input to my Western Pacific HO Car List. Thanks to the help so many of you offered, version 5 is now complete with nearly all the changes suggested. I will post it to the files section of our web site in a day or two. This all I will do with it for now, but in a year or so I may do another update.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


Re: Gondola Load

mopacfirst
 

Gratefully accepted.

RG7


WP HO Car List

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Thank you all for your input to my Western Pacific HO Car List. Thanks to the help so many of you offered, version 5 is now complete with nearly all the changes suggested. I will post it to the files section of our web site in a day or two. This all I will do with it for now, but in a year or so I may do another update.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


Re: Gondola Load

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Ron,

You need a copy of my WP list. The one attached is the final version for now, with quite a few changes from the one I sent last week.

Yours Aye,


Garth

On 4/1/19 7:21 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
Yes, sorry for the confusion.  I should have known that a 1945-built car wouldn't have been the same as the prototype of the Branchline car.

The car I'm thinking of doesn't show up today so it must be in storage.  But I did find a different Branchline car, factory numbered 20558, in a repaint scheme (the Western way with large initials) with a shop date of 1961.  I believe this is the same series of car.

I need to find that other one and weather it a little more, to represent a 1960-era condition.

Ron Merrick


Re: Gondola Load

mopacfirst
 

Yes, sorry for the confusion.  I should have known that a 1945-built car wouldn't have been the same as the prototype of the Branchline car.

The car I'm thinking of doesn't show up today so it must be in storage.  But I did find a different Branchline car, factory numbered 20558, in a repaint scheme (the Western way with large initials) with a shop date of 1961.  I believe this is the same series of car.

I need to find that other one and weather it a little more, to represent a 1960-era condition.

Ron Merrick


Re: Gondola Load

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Ron,

Are you talking about the WP boxcar? I'm not sure a good version has ever been offered lettered WP by anyone (lots of Athearns, but they had the wrong square corners). The most correct model is Intermountain stock number 40899, an undecorated AAR 10' 6" boxcar with 6' doors and 5/5 Dreadnaught W-section ends.

The Branchline car was their stock number 1612, a 1947 car with 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends and a 7' door. Branchline's car came with silver lettering. It should have been white, and this was corrected on the special run Branchline did for the PCR NMRA.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/1/19 1:18 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
Is this the Branchline model?  I built one a few years back, but I'm not sure that car is on the layout currently for me to check, and I can't immediately find the old Branchline catalog pages.  I'm not sure Atlas has re-run this car, but the Branchline kits show up all the time on eBay, or at least the ones where the number produced was in excess of the number actually sold or built.  Some less-common kits don't show up very often, but I haven't looked for this one since the one I built is in proportion to the number I needed.  I think I've probably built just about all the ones I really need, having rejected a few that just aren't close enough to be correct for me, but I counted recently and I think I'm over 70 finished ones, just over half of the total number of XM cars in service on my railroad.  I'd probably still buy a few more, especially if I want parts for something.

Ron Merrick


Re: a fun glimpse into the Western Union operation

mofwcaboose <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

I don't think these are Western Union cars. In fact, they might not be occupied camp cars at all. No smoke jacks or ventilators visible. They do look like they were originally open-end passenger cars  that had the  end platforms removed and the roofs cut back to match.

To my eyes, they most resemble early D&RGW  camp cars that were built new around 1880. The last example sat on narrow-gauge trucks at Durango for many years. If it still exists, it is more then likely the oldest surviving camp car in the world.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Apr 1, 2019 5:08 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] a fun glimpse into the Western Union operation

John and Friends,

I wonder if the two cars to the left of the locomotives in this view are Western Union. They appear to be converted passenger or head end cars. This is Roper Yard on the D&RGW, circa 1947. Not a diesel in sight!

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmoaug02_1.html

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198

Bob Chaparro
 


Re: Gondola Load

mopacfirst
 

Sorry, the replies get separated from the original message by a day or two, but "this" refers to the WP car on the doughnut siding from the B&O photo.

Ron Merrick


Re: Gondola Load

mopacfirst
 

Is this the Branchline model?  I built one a few years back, but I'm not sure that car is on the layout currently for me to check, and I can't immediately find the old Branchline catalog pages.  I'm not sure Atlas has re-run this car, but the Branchline kits show up all the time on eBay, or at least the ones where the number produced was in excess of the number actually sold or built.  Some less-common kits don't show up very often, but I haven't looked for this one since the one I built is in proportion to the number I needed.  I think I've probably built just about all the ones I really need, having rejected a few that just aren't close enough to be correct for me, but I counted recently and I think I'm over 70 finished ones, just over half of the total number of XM cars in service on my railroad.  I'd probably still buy a few more, especially if I want parts for something.

Ron Merrick


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

anthony wagner
 

My bad it should be 1-1-50 ORER. TW

On Monday, April 1, 2019, 11:52:08 AM CDT, anthony wagner <anycw1@...> wrote:


NJI&I, a subsidiary of the Wabash. poss ibly 3500-3599 1 car in my 1-1-80 ORER. I'd guess its a clone of several thousand WAB cars in various 40000 thru 49000 number series  with 11' or 12' doors as both ordinary XM box cars or XAR auto or XME and XAP auto parts cars. Tony Wagner
On Monday, April 1, 2019, 10:17:05 AM CDT, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi List Members,
 
Any thoughts on the reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car shown in ght eimage linked below? The resolution is just not quite good enough...
 
 
Thanks for ideas in advance.
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

anthony wagner
 

NJI&I, a subsidiary of the Wabash. poss ibly 3500-3599 1 car in my 1-1-80 ORER. I'd guess its a clone of several thousand WAB cars in various 40000 thru 49000 number series  with 11' or 12' doors as both ordinary XM box cars or XAR auto or XME and XAP auto parts cars. Tony Wagner

On Monday, April 1, 2019, 10:17:05 AM CDT, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi List Members,
 
Any thoughts on the reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car shown in ght eimage linked below? The resolution is just not quite good enough...
 
 
Thanks for ideas in advance.
 
Claus Schlund
 

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