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Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car
Ralph W. Brown
Hi Steve,
Thanks.
Ralph
Brown
Portland, Maine PRRT&HS No. 3966 NMRA No. L2532 rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
From: Steve
and Barb Hile
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 4:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] reporting marks for the 40ft single
sheathed auto box car try this
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2019 3:17 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car Hi Ben,
Do you happen to know the Walthers item number for that car? The
replacement end with end doors has piqued my interest.
Thanks,
Ralph
Brown
Portland, Maine PRRT&HS No. 3966 NMRA No. L2532 rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com From: Benjamin
Hom
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 3:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] reporting marks for the 40ft single
sheathed auto box car Claus Schlund asked:
"Any thoughts on the reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car shown in the image linked below? The resolution is just not quite good enough..." https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM86520 Tony Wagner replied" "NJI&I, a subsidiary of the Wabash, possibly 3500-3599 1 car in my 1-1-50 ORER. I'd guess its a clone of several thousand WAB cars in various 40000 thru 49000 number series with 11' or 12' doors as both ordinary XM box cars or XAR auto or XME and XAP auto parts cars." That's what I thought at first, but the Wabash cars all had radial roofs and the car in the photo has a peaked roof. http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/wabssautomain.html That got my interest as it appears to be an opportunity to use that fantasy
HO scale Walthers 50 ft auto boxcar for something by cutting out a set of
diagonals shortens the model to the neighborhood of 40 ft. The ends will
need to be replaced, which isn't too difficult, especially as the kit is
engineered with a separate A end to allow swapping a solid end or end
door.
Ben Hom
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Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car
try this
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2019 3:17 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car Hi Ben,
Do you happen to know the Walthers item number for that car? The
replacement end with end doors has piqued my interest.
Thanks,
Ralph
Brown
Portland, Maine PRRT&HS No. 3966 NMRA No. L2532 rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com From: Benjamin
Hom
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 3:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] reporting marks for the 40ft single
sheathed auto box car Claus Schlund asked:
"Any thoughts on the reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car shown in the image linked below? The resolution is just not quite good enough..." https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM86520 Tony Wagner replied" "NJI&I, a subsidiary of the Wabash, possibly 3500-3599 1 car in my 1-1-50 ORER. I'd guess its a clone of several thousand WAB cars in various 40000 thru 49000 number series with 11' or 12' doors as both ordinary XM box cars or XAR auto or XME and XAP auto parts cars." That's what I thought at first, but the Wabash cars all had radial roofs and the car in the photo has a peaked roof. http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/wabssautomain.html That got my interest as it appears to be an opportunity to use that fantasy
HO scale Walthers 50 ft auto boxcar for something by cutting out a set of
diagonals shortens the model to the neighborhood of 40 ft. The ends will
need to be replaced, which isn't too difficult, especially as the kit is
engineered with a separate A end to allow swapping a solid end or end
door.
Ben Hom
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Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car
Ralph W. Brown
Hi Ben,
Do you happen to know the Walthers item number for that car? The
replacement end with end doors has piqued my interest.
Thanks,
Ralph
Brown
Portland, Maine PRRT&HS No. 3966 NMRA No. L2532 rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
From: Benjamin
Hom
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 3:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] reporting marks for the 40ft single
sheathed auto box car Claus Schlund asked:
"Any thoughts on the reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car shown in the image linked below? The resolution is just not quite good enough..." https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM86520 Tony Wagner replied" "NJI&I, a subsidiary of the Wabash, possibly 3500-3599 1 car in my 1-1-50 ORER. I'd guess its a clone of several thousand WAB cars in various 40000 thru 49000 number series with 11' or 12' doors as both ordinary XM box cars or XAR auto or XME and XAP auto parts cars." That's what I thought at first, but the Wabash cars all had radial roofs and the car in the photo has a peaked roof. http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/wabssautomain.html That got my interest as it appears to be an opportunity to use that fantasy
HO scale Walthers 50 ft auto boxcar for something by cutting out a set of
diagonals shortens the model to the neighborhood of 40 ft. The ends will
need to be replaced, which isn't too difficult, especially as the kit is
engineered with a separate A end to allow swapping a solid end or end
door.
Ben Hom
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Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car
Benjamin Hom
Claus Schlund asked: "Any thoughts on the reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car shown in the image linked below? The resolution is just not quite good enough..." https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM86520 Tony Wagner replied" "NJI&I, a subsidiary of the Wabash, possibly 3500-3599 1 car in my 1-1-50 ORER. I'd guess its a clone of several thousand WAB cars in various 40000 thru 49000 number series with 11' or 12' doors as both ordinary XM box cars or XAR auto or XME and XAP auto parts cars." That's what I thought at first, but the Wabash cars all had radial roofs and the car in the photo has a peaked roof. http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/wabssautomain.html That got my interest as it appears to be an opportunity to use that fantasy HO scale Walthers 50 ft auto boxcar for something by cutting out a set of diagonals shortens the model to the neighborhood of 40 ft. The ends will need to be replaced, which isn't too difficult, especially as the kit is engineered with a separate A end to allow swapping a solid end or end door. Ben Hom
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Re: Gondola Load aka WP car aka WP 20551-series aka WP painting standards....
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Fred,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thank you for your enlightening post. I must concede that you "have the goods" vis-a-vis at least for some of these early cars. I'm going to print out your message and keep in my files for future reference. As for the 16001-series, I only know them from a few survivors as all-FCR, and these were all likely repainted later (SN, one CCT, one S&TE, one Pickering Lumber--now at Railtown 1897). Thanks calling out the 16001's. I too would love to know what about the1945 Mt. Vernon cars. Finding builder's photos would be a plus. I would be happy to change my views about the black ends for 1945 and 1947 if anyone can come up with documentation. As the 1947 cars were Pullman-built, I would not be surprised if such a photo exists somewhere. Aren't most of them in Canada? Specifications to the manufacturers not only specified brands of brake equipment, running boards, etc. (Known as "specialties" in the trade, but also called out paint colors or car cement applications. I've seen one of these for the 1958 GS gondolas. Surely the others might exist in manufacturers' records, or in WP records at the CSRM, WRM or Portola. Whether such paperwork has been cataloged is a problem. You are absolutely correct about the nomenclature of the white paint. Before 1949 it had aluminum as a carrier (I think that's the proper term), but was pigment white. This has caused a lot of heartache and debate for years in the modeling community. It isn't just about freight cars. The orange used on SN freight motors is also subject to a lot of debate. Yours Aye, Garth Groff
On 4/2/19 11:30 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Garth & Ed and others interested in WP,
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Re: "Car builder" is not a name
Scott, you must not have read Alice in Wonderland or you would know the difference between what something is called, what its name is called, and what its name actually is. :-)
On 4/2/2019 11:33 AM, D. Scott
Chatfield wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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"Car builder" is not a name
D. Scott Chatfield
Bruce Smith wrote: >While many have called the 3 panel door on the X29 a “CRECo” door, in reality it is not a product of the Chicago Railway Equipment Co and is more correctly called a "car builder's door" ...... STOP! There is no such thing as a "car builder's door" or "car builder's end" or whatever. It is not a proper name, but a placeholder. When you see "car builder" on a general arrangement diagram or other paperwork it means the railroad (buyer) let the carbuilder decide who to buy that part from rather than specifying the source itself. Period. End of rant. Scott Chatfield
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Re: Gondola Load aka WP car aka WP 20551-series aka WP painting standards....
Fred Jansz
Garth & Ed and others interested in WP,
Unfortunately I have never found painting & stencilling guides for the 3 series of 1937, 1945 & 1947 built WP 20001-20800 box cars. However, I posess WP stencil-guides dated 1936 of the WP 14001, 16001 and 19001 cars that mention: black roof & ends. Also have a picture of a new 18417 re-painted that way with a SAC 1-37 date (BLT 6-17). So one could say at least in 1936-1937 WP followed the black ends & roofs fashion. Which implies that if you have one of the Speedwitch K114 kits of the 1937-built 9'6" box cars, it would need black ends & roof as built. In fact, this is what I've always thought, looking at the builders photo of WP 20200 that's included in the Speedwitch instructions. Ends painted shiny black! (not car cement). With the next repaint (if any) these cars would be WP-red all over out of cost-reduction, except trucks & underbody still in black. But in my scale world one car could easily still have black roof & ends in my modeling year 1950! It is my opinion the WP 20551-20800 series of 1947 MtVernon-built cars was delivered in WP red all over, except trucks. At least I have never seen a picture of such a car with dark ends or roof. But yes, the 1951 PS-1 series was delivered with black car cement roofs & ends. BTW: yes, 1949 was the date 'silver' stencilling was introduced. However; the 1936 instructions mention 'aluminum' lettering. This I understand is white paint mixed with aluminum particles, so it reflects light. In our 1:87 world this would mean plain white I guess. best regards, Fred Jansz
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Re: Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198
Dave Lawler
Thank you Ben. That would certainly make an interesting modeling feature.
Dave Lawler
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Re: Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198
Benjamin Hom
Dave Lawler asked: "What was the purpose for the stake pockets(?) on the outside of the side boards?" To hold stakes for loads taller than the sides of the gon. These are a common feature of period wood and composite gons. Here's a builder's photo of a PRR Class GRA with stake pockets: Some later steel gons had collapsible stake pockets on the inside of the sides. The Proto 2000 52 ft 6 in gon is an example. Ben Hom
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Re: Pennsylvania X29 Box Cars 503920 and 504222
Lester Breuer
Bruce Thank You for the correction on the “car builder’s door”.
Lester Breuer
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Re: Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198
Dave Lawler
What was the purpose for the stake pockets(?) on the outside of the side
boards?
Best regards,
Dave Lawler
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Re: Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
Hello Bob, I've never been a particular fan of the Lackawanna, being more Erie oriented, but cannot thank you enough for providing the photos of Lackawanna gondola #67198 that you posted seven photos of from the Steamtown collection. This car is so neat it just begs to be modeled. The fact that 16 of the class were still around in April 1950, as Schuyler has noted, is just the frosting on the cake! Wood sides and a wood floor and look at the way the side planks are butted together at their ends with the shorter one that is 2nd from the bottom and extending inward from the end of the car having one bolt at its top into the flange on one side of the rib and the next plank having one bolt through the bottom into the flange on the other side of the rib to maintain the same pattern where there was no butt joint at the rib and each plank had two bolts. And look at the Bettendorf T-section trucks that were so popular for many years and the K brake system with the rod from the brake ratchet at the end of the car being suspended by brackets to reach the brake valve. The mounting of the ratchet gear itself, to clear the drop ends, is quite interesting. The deep well underframe is noted and the brake kine coming to the outside of the car would seem proof that there were also drop doors. And stake pockets on the car sides as well! Again, what a super interesting car and if the subject car were not enough look at the surroundings! How about the Mo. Pac.50 ft. auto car which we have discussed modifying the Roundhouse/Athearn single sheathed Western Pacific car without the end door, but of similar design, to produce. Its "B" end shows in the 4th photo and the "A" end in the 7th even if little else can be seen. Better yet, look at the Grand Trunk early double sheathed end door auto a part of which shows in the 2nd photo and a bit more in the 3rd. What a shame this car was not documented as well as the subject. Were the Lackawanna gon and other cars not enough look at the entire 7th photos! How about that Mack Bull Dog truck that looks to still have solid tires, not less! And how about that neat, early style overhead crane and the boiler it is unloading from the flat car beyond the Lackawanna gon! I can't thank you enough, Bob, for giving us such a great photo presentation. It is easily the best I've seen on the STMFC. Cordially, Don Valentine
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Re: Live Poultry Transportation Company Memohead
Jake Schaible
Now we know why one of their poultry cars was named "Mudd".
-J
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Live Poultry Transportation Company Memohead
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi List Members,
With the interest in poultry cars, perhaps this
Live Poultry Transportation Company Memohead will be of interest.
Claus Schlund
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Re: Pennsylvania X29 Box Cars 503920 and 504222
Paul Doggett
Lester
They look really good. Paul Doggett. England the disUnited Kingdom 😢😢😢
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Re: Pennsylvania X29 Box Cars 503920 and 504222
Michael Gross
Nicely done, Lester, and so appreciate your sharing the construction details!
-- Michael Gross Pasadena, CA
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Re: Pennsylvania X29 Box Cars 503920 and 504222
Lester,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Nice work! One minor correction. While many have called the 3 panel door on the X29 a “CRECo” door, in reality it is not a product of the Chicago Railway Equipment Co and is more correctly called a "car builder's door" or "PRR 3-panel door".
There are subtle differences between the PRR “carbuilder’s door” and a CRECo door.
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: Pennsylvania X29 Box Cars 503920 and 504222
Lester, those look great, thanks for sharing Fenton
On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 8:42 AM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote: I have finished two Red Caboose Pennsylvania X29 box cars, 503920 with a Creco door and 504222 with a Youngstown steel door. The cars have AB brakes located in the correct position as discussed on this site. If you are interested in viewing, photos and writeup of building and finishing the two PRR X29 Box cars are now on my blog I started to share photos and writeups of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If you would like to take a look please do at the following: --
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Pennsylvania X29 Box Cars 503920 and 504222
Lester Breuer
I have finished two Red Caboose Pennsylvania X29 box cars, 503920 with a Creco door and 504222 with a Youngstown steel door. The cars have AB brakes located in the correct position as discussed on this site. If you are interested in viewing, photos and writeup of building and finishing the two PRR X29 Box cars are now on my blog I started to share photos and writeups of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If you would like to take a look please do at the following:
http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/ Lester Breuer
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