Date   

Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Tim O'Connor
 

Not all of the photos appear to show the same bags. Could some be beans, or sugar?

Tim O'

On 4/3/2019 8:19 AM, Edward wrote:
The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: RI 133510 from flour loading topic

Jon Miller
 

On 4/3/2019 9:38 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
My question is, what is it, detail-wise? 

    I find it interesting that the weight decals are not in alignment.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


RI 133510 from flour loading topic

mopacfirst
 

Great shot of this Rock Island boxcar from the series on flour loading --

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg

My question is, what is it, detail-wise?  I'm not home to look up this series, but I can check the Sunshine list online and it's broadly similar to the 140000 series, same door, perhaps same roof, probably same or similar size, can't see the ends.  Only obvious difference is the diagonals point the opposite way.  Yes, one is Howe and one is Pratt but I haven't needed to tell the difference in my professional life since I finished my static analysis class in 1970.

Anyway, is there an easily achievable model of this car in HO?

Ron Merrick


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Ulrich GS Gon Ad, Model Railroader, October 1959

Bill Decker
 

Amen Ben!  LOTS of lumber--particularly cants in GS goes.  For me, they are sent up the Cascade "Hill."  i have been looking at a photo shot at Wicopee (middle of the climb up the Cascades) as I study the Wicopee station site for modeling.  The photo in question is shot on a GS got loaded with lumber cants (rough-sawn, about 6x6 or so) loaded above the gon sides with side stakes and cross ties per the AAR loading diagrams for open car loading.  Prime Douglas Fir from the forests of Oregon!

Bil Decker
McMinnville, OR


Re: Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198

Bob Chaparro
 

You are very welcome, Don.
I probably spend too much time looking at old photos but occasionally I do find gems like these that I know a few modelers may want to run with.
Also, I have a number of PowerPoint presentations I do at train meets and conventions that benefit from good photo examples of cars, car details, infrastructure, etc. so some of these photos fit my needs as well.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Dennis Storzek
 

They were "one and don" except the cloth went on to many secondary uses; a major source of rags and industrial wipes. Used bags made good aprons, any housewife could do it with a bit of sewing. At one time some bags were even printed with a pattern to encourage this. I recall finding a stash of these bags when I cleaned out my grandmother's house.

Dennis Storzek


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Stic Harris
 

Ed, do you know if they reused the cloth flour bags? Or were they one and done?

Thanks,

Stic Harris

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 8:19 AM Edward <edb8391@...> wrote:
The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer 



--


- Stic


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Edward
 

The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer 


White material protruding from car doors.

np328
 

   A while ago, I recall a string about a closed door boxcar with white material protruding from the doors with the query - what could it be? 
Was that ever resolved?  

    While looking over some photos one prompted an "a-ha" moment.    
For those who care to see, lots to study. Car chalking, switch tags, a RI and M&StL car.  An example to model of a car being loaded. 
First photo and second give evidence of what I think was the white material seen.    
Library of Congress - John Vachon - 1939 - I do not recall these being photos discussed here prior.   

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04764v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04759v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04765v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04760v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04504v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04503v.jpg
No Pillsbury doughboy seen anywhere. 
  
First photo - upper left of the door - "New plastic roof"  (?) 
First three photos - that white material seen prior - could this be it? 
Photos five and six - look how TIGHT the side sheathing is. No deep grooves. 
Last photo - all the chalk marks.                                              

       Photos taken at Pillsbury A mill in old St. Anthony Main area of Twin Cities. In the future well beyond the time line of this list, the tracks the cars are on will be torn out, concrete poured,  then rails set in place with concrete poured up to the railhead height to give "historic atmosphere".  The mills will be refurbished into condos where if you have to ask "how much?" well..... yes... that much. 

And in the future beyond this lists time I will walk around here with my wife from time to time on the Mississippi river front over looking where once St. Anthony Falls fell and Jim Hill built his stone arch bridge and we will duck into a nice café overlooking over the river.                                                                      Jim Dick - St. Paul 

As a modeling note, I think I need to add some white material, perhaps thin plastic....around some boxcars shipping flour.  

                 Print this one and post it by the freight house: http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3g00000/3g07000/3g07900/3g07903v.jpg



Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Benjamin Hom
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
"But the out-of-the box thinking of turning it into a 40' car, that I like!!! Reminds me of the Mainline Modeler NP GS kit bash of swapping left and right pieces of the sides to correct the truss arrangement. This is what makes this hobby fun."

It's actually one of John Nehrich's ideas.  With an eye towards building a Wabash 40 ft SS automobile car, he turned a MDC 50 ft SS auto boxcar into a flat kit, then removed the side sill reinforcement under the doors and cut out a diagonal on either side of the door to make 40 ft sides.  I don't know if he finished the model, but it was on the way towards being a credible model of the prototype at a time when the Funaro model was no longer available.


Ben Hom 


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"You're probably right about the Walthers end doors, but some hinges did stick out a bit."

The hinges on the Walthers car are comical, and with the lack of heavy frame around the door, would rip out of the corner post once the door is opened.


Ben Hom


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Tim O'Connor
 


You're probably right about the Walthers end doors, but some hinges did stick out a bit.

Tim O'


On 4/2/2019 8:04 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Ralph Brown asked:
"Do you happen to know the Walthers item number for that car?  The replacement end with end doors has piqued my interest." 

Steve Hile replied:
"try this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WALTHERS-932-5853-NORTHERN-PACIFIC-50-BOXCAR-4912-KIT-HO-SCALE/382862829884?hash=item592467293c:g:I74AAOSwqoxb9bDb  

Secondary market is your best bet - as far as I know, Walthers hasn't reissued this model yet.  The end door is one of the worst features of this kit - it lacks the heavy frame normally seen on these prototypes and features some unprototypical large protruding hinges. 


Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Tim O'Connor
 


30 years and 2 days before I was born...


On 4/2/2019 5:22 PM, Eric Lombard wrote:
Gents, That car is from NJI&I 2000-2149 built ACF Lot 9553, 1923. they had an inside height of 10-6. ACF builder photos are available on the Westerfield ACF photos disk.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 2:12 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Claus Schlund asked:
"Any thoughts on the reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car shown in the image linked below? The resolution is just not quite good enough..."
https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM86520    

Tony Wagner replied"
"NJI&I, a subsidiary of the Wabash, possibly 3500-3599 1 car in my 1-1-50 ORER. I'd guess its a clone of several thousand WAB cars in various 40000 thru 49000 number series  with 11' or 12' doors as both ordinary XM box cars or XAR auto or XME and XAP auto parts cars."

That's what I thought at first, but the Wabash cars all had radial roofs and the car in the photo has a peaked roof.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/wabssautomain.html 

That got my interest as it appears to be an opportunity to use that fantasy HO scale Walthers 50 ft auto boxcar for something by cutting out a set of diagonals shortens the model to the neighborhood of 40 ft.  The ends will need to be replaced, which isn't too difficult, especially as the kit is engineered with a separate A end to allow swapping a solid end or end door.


Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Benjamin Hom
 

Ralph Brown asked:
"Do you happen to know the Walthers item number for that car?  The replacement end with end doors has piqued my interest." 

Steve Hile replied:
"try this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WALTHERS-932-5853-NORTHERN-PACIFIC-50-BOXCAR-4912-KIT-HO-SCALE/382862829884?hash=item592467293c:g:I74AAOSwqoxb9bDb  

Secondary market is your best bet - as far as I know, Walthers hasn't reissued this model yet.  The end door is one of the worst features of this kit - it lacks the heavy frame normally seen on these prototypes and features some unprototypical large protruding hinges. 


Ben Hom


Re: Live Poultry Transportation Company Memohead

Rob M.
 
Edited

Interesting. The Memohead must be post-1901 since it has an "Automatic" telephone number for the Chicago exchange.   Automatic Electric was related to the Illinois Telephone and Telegraph and the Chicago Freight Tunnel company and the phone cable justification for the 40' below tunnel system.  

Interesting early stuff for LPT and the seemingly early emphasis on shrinkage of slaughtered carcass.

Rob Mondichak


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Ulrich GS Gon Ad, Model Railroader, October 1959

Rob M.
 

I usually justify my SP/GN/Milwaukee single sheathed boxcars since they were often seen spotted at lumberyards in my neck of the woods with lumber products.   I know (or think I know) I've seen pictures of redwood pipe in GS gons already but the east used lots of vitrified clay pipe or cast iron for municipal use.

Rob Mondichak


Re: "Car builder" is not a name

John Sykes III
 

Scott:

Maybe or maybe not.  Several of the car builders had proprietary parts such as doors, ends and roofs.  ACF and Pullman Standard come to mind.  Also, some of the smaller builders got more than just the ends, roofs and doors from vendors -  I have an add from Youngstown that extolls how they supplied the car side panels to PFE for some of their new steel reefers (I think they were R-40-25s).  Plus a lot of PFE R-30 reefers had Bettendorf underframes.  Bettendorf trucks are used the way we use the name Kleenex today (more correctly they should be called Bettendorf-style trucks).  AAR took the best features of Bettendorf U-section trucks, married them with the best features of PRR 2D-F8 trucks and they became the AAR Type-Y or trucks.

Then there are items with trademarked names, like Dreadnaught and Murphy - trademarks of Standard Railway Equipment Company,  the owner of which happened to be named William Murphy (not sure of  his first name).  SREC still exists as "Stanray" after their X pattern roofs.

One other glitch.  Some companies sold licenses to other manufacturers, so Barber S-2 Ride Control trucks begat ASF A-3 trucks, etc.

The list goes on and on.  I'm sure some of the others here will chime in with more examples.

-- John


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Ulrich GS Gon Ad, Model Railroader, October 1959

Benjamin Hom
 

Rob Mondichak asked:
"I've justified an SP G50- on my east coast coal hauling branch as something bringing in product from Espee territory.  Need you SP guys to school me on what types of non-aggregate loads may be carried to the east coast in one of these cars."

Lumber.  Lots and lots of lumber.


Ben Hom


Re: Gondola Load aka WP car aka WP 20551-series aka WP painting standards....

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Fred,

The 1937 and 1945 boxcars were built by Mt. Vernon. The 1947 cars were Pullman-Standard.

So as I have said before, the WP was anything but consistent. The builders' photo might have been a one-off, a mistake, or maybe a test for eliminating the black ends. There are so many mysteries about this road.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/2/19 5:06 PM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Garth,
Illinois RR Museum, Pullman Library could have a WP PS-1 picture.
1951 is just out of my 1950-modeling/collecting scope, but you could ask them.
The 1937, 1945 and 1947 batches were all built by Mount Vernon, or am I missing something?
Weird thing is that the 1936-built WP 19001-19050 double door car has black ends according to the stencilling instructions, but clearly has red ends & roof on the Sacramento builders photo.
cheers, Fred Jansz


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Ulrich GS Gon Ad, Model Railroader, October 1959

Rob M.
 

We in O scale are blessed to have a wonderful and accurate scale model of G-50-9/12 GS gons in brass courtesy of the late Pat O'Boyle and his Pacific Limited.  Beautiful models and a signature of the west in the same vein as the ATSF Caswell Gons, of which we are not fortunate to have in quarter inch scale.

I've justified an SP G50- on my east coast coal hauling branch as something bringing in product from Espee territory.  Need you SP guys to school me on what types of non-aggregate loads may be carried to the east coast in one of these cars.

Suggestions please?

Rob Mondichak

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