Date   
Re: Walthers HO 1944 AAR modified boxcar

naptownprr
 

What is SREM improved?  a typo?


Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Randy Hammill <nhrr@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 5:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Walthers HO 1944 AAR modified boxcar
 
In regards to the terminology, best I can tell the 10’6” IH was added as an optional standard in 1941, and didn’t change again until 1947 when the 10’0” IH was removed from
the standard.

What we often call ‘1944’ or ‘postwar’ cars simply have SREM Improved Dreadnaugh Ends, but the standard itself didn’t change. Those just happened to be the latest (trademarked) end they produced. The majority were 10’6” IH cars, but as we know, there were a fair number of 10’0” IH cars built too.

The “proper” terminology is something I’ve been trying to figure out, because some of it is modeler/railfan/historian terminology, rather than from the actual standards. It is helpful to a certain extent, but we are usually using visible components to describe the variants when I believe the standard was more about the dimensions and underframe is than the carbody. This means, for example, that we often omit cars with Pullman-Standard or ACF carbuilders ends from identification lists as if they weren’t AAR Standard cars of whichever type.

Technically, I think that a 10’0” IH car with an Improved Dreadnaught End is a 1937 AAR Standard Car, and one with a 10’6” IH is a Modified 1937 AAR Standard Car, if built before 1947 anyway. After that point it’s a 1947(?) AAR Standard Car. 

I know that’s not the terminology we usually use, but what do the experts think?

Randy

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:blog.newbritainstation.com

Re: Walthers HO 1944 AAR modified boxcar

Randy Hammill
 

In regards to the terminology, best I can tell the 10’6” IH was added as an optional standard in 1941, and didn’t change again until 1947 when the 10’0” IH was removed from
the standard.

What we often call ‘1944’ or ‘postwar’ cars simply have SREM Improved Dreadnaugh Ends, but the standard itself didn’t change. Those just happened to be the latest (trademarked) end they produced. The majority were 10’6” IH cars, but as we know, there were a fair number of 10’0” IH cars built too.

The “proper” terminology is something I’ve been trying to figure out, because some of it is modeler/railfan/historian terminology, rather than from the actual standards. It is helpful to a certain extent, but we are usually using visible components to describe the variants when I believe the standard was more about the dimensions and underframe is than the carbody. This means, for example, that we often omit cars with Pullman-Standard or ACF carbuilders ends from identification lists as if they weren’t AAR Standard cars of whichever type.

Technically, I think that a 10’0” IH car with an Improved Dreadnaught End is a 1937 AAR Standard Car, and one with a 10’6” IH is a Modified 1937 AAR Standard Car, if built before 1947 anyway. After that point it’s a 1947(?) AAR Standard Car. 

I know that’s not the terminology we usually use, but what do the experts think?

Randy

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:blog.newbritainstation.com

Re: Doors with inside detail

Brian Carlson
 

Steve. The steel ribs, actually steel bar only appeared on the outside of superior doors. The inside would be flat steel plate. 

On Apr 13, 2019, at 4:24 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay

Re: Doors with inside detail

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Stephen,

Why not scratch build a door with at least minimal detail on the inside? All you need is a photo of a Superior door from the back (maybe a car interior shot), some thin styrene sheet and strip, and a lot of little tiny rivets, maybe from Archer. You might consider making a few extras and stashing them for the future.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/13/19 4:24 PM, StephenK wrote:
I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay

Re: Doors with inside detail

Tony Thompson
 

Sounds like it would work. It won’t be handled, so if you can get it installed it should be fine.
Tony Thompson 


On Apr 13, 2019, at 1:24 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay

Doors with inside detail

StephenK
 

I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay

Re: WP 19531

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

The second group of the silver cars (19521-19542) were drawn at random from 20821-21400 in 1952-54. They were originally BCR, black ends and roofs (car cement, probably painted black over) and lettered in silver with the square WP herald. They were returned to Pullman who added "Compartmentizer" load restrainers. I was surprised to recently learn (from Ed's post IIRC) that the cars were returned in their original paint to the WP, who repainted the sides with the "silver and huge orange feather" scheme themselves. The only difference between the two groups was silver ends on 19501-19520 and black ends on 19521-19542 because of the car cement. Circa 1956 19501-19520 and 19521-19542 were all repainted BCR with the smaller orange feather in your image.

WP 19537 was exception. This car rode on roller bearing trucks, probably as a test, and in addition to the silver and orange paint scheme, had an orange "roller freight" logo at the upper right of the car side. This particular car was reweighed 5-53 at Sacramento, which was probably the date it was converted. It was put on display at the State Fair, and possibly other locations, before returning to revenue service. It too would have been repainted BCR red with the rest of the class circa 1956.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



On 4/13/19 11:08 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Thanks Brian and all - Note that 19507 (aluminum) and 19531 (box car red) both show as Compartmentizer

Were 20821-21400 delivered in aluminum paint, or oxide red? The aluminum car shows no indication of
being repainted, but you say the renumbered cars were all repainted?

Or am I still confused? :-[:-D

Thanks for your help!

Tim O'


On 4/12/2019 8:33 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io wrote:
 From Info that I got from Ed Hawkins
WP    20821-21400    580    10-51        8027    7    YSD-2    H    A    M    A3    Note 11
11 - 22 additional cars (various numbers) sent to Pullman-Standard in 1953 and equipped with Compartmentizers. WP repainted cars silver/orange feather with black roof & ends, re# to 19521-19542.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 7:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WP 19531

Anyone have the skinny on this WP PS-1 box car? I -think- it was renumbered by from what? And has it been repainted as well? The photo date is 1956 but I can't make out when the car was built.

The image is a scan of a slide that I own.

Tim O'




Re: WP 19531

Tim O'Connor
 


Thank you Ed ! :-)

I find since I model a later era that I'm very interested in the history
of older cars, because they so often changed over time.

Tim O'


On 4/12/2019 9:48 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Apr 12, 2019, at 6:25 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Anyone have the skinny on this WP PS-1 box car? I -think- it was renumbered
by from what? And has it been repainted as well? The photo date is 1956 but
I can't make out when the car was built.

The image is a scan of a slide that I own.

Tim,
In Oct.-Nov. 1951 the WP received 600 PS-1 box cars WP 20801-21400 built by Pullman-Standard in lot 8027. The first 20 cars 20801-20820 were equipped with Compartmentizers and received aluminum-painted sides & ends along with a full-car length orange feather. The other 580 cars were delivered with freight car red sides & black car cement on the ends, a detail of which will be later discussed. 

Related to the story of WP 19531, starting in 1952 series 20801-20820 was renumbered 19501-19520 with the renumbering being completed by 1-54. Also in mid-1952 the WP sent 20 cars from series 20821-21400 back to Pullman-Standard to be be equipped with Compartmentizers that were built in P-S lot 8121. WP’s intent was for the 20 cars to be painted by P-S to match the 20801-20820 cars & to be renumbered 19521-19540. 

In a letter dated July 15, 1952 addressed to WP, Pullman-Standard advised it would cost the railroad $295.02 per car to sand-blast the black car cement from the ends because the aluminum paint would not adhere well to the black car cement. I came across the letter some 20 years ago while researching the lot 8027 Pullman-Standard correspondence file, documents relating to the construction of selected P-S freight cars that are available for review at the Pullman Library in Union, Illinois.

The railroad decided to not pay P-S to sand-blast the black car cement from the ends, so after installing the Compartmentizers Pullman-Standard returned the 20 cars to WP still in original paint but renumbered 19521-19540. Two additional cars numbered 19541-19542 soon followed to make a total of 42 Compartmentizer-equipped PS-1 box cars by 1-54.

Upon the cars’ return to the railroad, the Sacramento car shops repainted 19521-19542 with aluminum sides & large orange feather to match the original 20801-20820 cars but with the ends that retained the original black car cement as well as black car cement on the roofs. 

Fast-forward to early 1956 when WP 19501-19542 cycled through the Sacramento shops to be repainted in an all freight car red scheme as shown in your slide of 19531 with orange & yellow stencil and small orange feathers. A few photos I’ve seen of these cars denote “SAC. 3-56” when repainted & reweighed. The door & end placards were also lowered at this time.

A photo published on page 25 of the WP Color Guide book shows a MoW car in 1981 (out of scope for the STMFC) in the 1956 paint scheme that remained 25 years later. 

A long-winded answer to your question, but I thought it might be of interest to reflect on some of the details in the sequence of events.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: WP 19531

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Brian and all - Note that 19507 (aluminum) and 19531 (box car red) both show as Compartmentizer

Were 20821-21400 delivered in aluminum paint, or oxide red? The aluminum car shows no indication of
being repainted, but you say the renumbered cars were all repainted?

Or am I still confused? :-[:-D

Thanks for your help!

Tim O'

On 4/12/2019 8:33 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io wrote:
From Info that I got from Ed Hawkins
WP 20821-21400 580 10-51 8027 7 YSD-2 H A M A3 Note 11
11 - 22 additional cars (various numbers) sent to Pullman-Standard in 1953 and equipped with Compartmentizers. WP repainted cars silver/orange feather with black roof & ends, re# to 19521-19542.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 7:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WP 19531

Anyone have the skinny on this WP PS-1 box car? I -think- it was renumbered by from what? And has it been repainted as well? The photo date is 1956 but I can't make out when the car was built.

The image is a scan of a slide that I own.

Tim O'
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: WP 19531

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

I can add to Ed's excellent information that this "small-feather" paint scheme was used on other load-restrainer or cushion-underframe cars purchased or rebuilt by the WP in the mid-to-late 1950s. The WP had been pretty inconsistent about their specially-equipped cars, and there were four or five paint schemes floating around, with striking (some might argue garish) silver or orange bodies, most with huge feathers. The paint is said by some not to have held up well, and since these cars were rolling billboards for WP's modest innovation programs, it was apparently decided to come up with a new paint scheme based on BCR.

Repaints included 1961-1970, an oft-renumbered block of 40' PS-1s with 8' doors and cushioned underframes delivered in 1954. In 1959 they were equipped with DF-2 loaders and given the small feather paint scheme along with a large DF-2 plate on their doors.

WP 3011-3050, 50' single 8' door, riveted PS-1s with DF loaders and cushion underframes received the small-feather repaint scheme at some point. At least one of these, renumbered as WP 3997, escaped repainting and survived into the 1970s as a storage car outside the Stockton roundhouse. My photo is black-and-white, but I remember the car sides were orange and my photo shows its car-length silver feather was still intact.

WP series 55951-56000, 50' RBI boxcars with plug doors and DF loaders,  probably came in this scheme from PF&F in 1956. Certainly sister cars 56001-56100 carried this scheme when new in 1957.

Subsidiary Tidewater Southern received several groups of RBLs from PC&F. 610-610 in 1957 and 611-620 in 1958 were delivered in the small feather scheme with CP in brush script on the doors to advertise PC&F's "Car Pack" loaders. 810-840, also 1958, were equipped with Evans DF loaders and carried the "DF" on their doors.

Most of the above information is from Jim Eager's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 4/12/19 9:48 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Apr 12, 2019, at 6:25 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Anyone have the skinny on this WP PS-1 box car? I -think- it was renumbered
by from what? And has it been repainted as well? The photo date is 1956 but
I can't make out when the car was built.

The image is a scan of a slide that I own.

Tim,
In Oct.-Nov. 1951 the WP received 600 PS-1 box cars WP 20801-21400 built by Pullman-Standard in lot 8027. The first 20 cars 20801-20820 were equipped with Compartmentizers and received aluminum-painted sides & ends along with a full-car length orange feather. The other 580 cars were delivered with freight car red sides & black car cement on the ends, a detail of which will be later discussed. 

Related to the story of WP 19531, starting in 1952 series 20801-20820 was renumbered 19501-19520 with the renumbering being completed by 1-54. Also in mid-1952 the WP sent 20 cars from series 20821-21400 back to Pullman-Standard to be be equipped with Compartmentizers that were built in P-S lot 8121. WP’s intent was for the 20 cars to be painted by P-S to match the 20801-20820 cars & to be renumbered 19521-19540. 

In a letter dated July 15, 1952 addressed to WP, Pullman-Standard advised it would cost the railroad $295.02 per car to sand-blast the black car cement from the ends because the aluminum paint would not adhere well to the black car cement. I came across the letter some 20 years ago while researching the lot 8027 Pullman-Standard correspondence file, documents relating to the construction of selected P-S freight cars that are available for review at the Pullman Library in Union, Illinois.

The railroad decided to not pay P-S to sand-blast the black car cement from the ends, so after installing the Compartmentizers Pullman-Standard returned the 20 cars to WP still in original paint but renumbered 19521-19540. Two additional cars numbered 19541-19542 soon followed to make a total of 42 Compartmentizer-equipped PS-1 box cars by 1-54.

Upon the cars’ return to the railroad, the Sacramento car shops repainted 19521-19542 with aluminum sides & large orange feather to match the original 20801-20820 cars but with the ends that retained the original black car cement as well as black car cement on the roofs. 

Fast-forward to early 1956 when WP 19501-19542 cycled through the Sacramento shops to be repainted in an all freight car red scheme as shown in your slide of 19531 with orange & yellow stencil and small orange feathers. A few photos I’ve seen of these cars denote “SAC. 3-56” when repainted & reweighed. The door & end placards were also lowered at this time.

A photo published on page 25 of the WP Color Guide book shows a MoW car in 1981 (out of scope for the STMFC) in the 1956 paint scheme that remained 25 years later. 

A long-winded answer to your question, but I thought it might be of interest to reflect on some of the details in the sequence of events.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: Throwback Thursday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader, February 1959

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 04:20 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
You're right! :-D Athearn shared the roof + ends mold with their other reefer - a wood
sheathed rebuild with steel ends and roof. Some have said it's an R-40-24 but...
Tim has hit upon the reason why it has been so difficult to track down prototypes for the Athearn "blue box" cars.

While the kits are one piece bodies, the injection mold cavity inserts that form the roof, sides, and ends are five separate pieces, and this opened the door to mix 'n match the inserts with new pieces to make future kits... Especially the ends. Given the toolmaking techniques available in those pre-CNC, pre-EDM (Electro Discharge Machining) days, those ends ate the lion's share of the tooling budget, so it made sense to re-use them over and over again. In those long ago days of much less research and a much less sophisticated market, the fact that the rib pattern might be slightly different was not a concern. Once this path was chosen, the fact that the ends were for a 10'-5" car and and some prototypes were only 10'-0" tall was dealt with by simply stretching the sides upward 5" to fit. Those same ends seem to have been used on the 50' boxcars, also.

Another oddity that no one has mentioned is the 50' boxcar roofs all seem to be missing a panel, being 14 panels rather than the correct 15. The panels themselves should be the same width as those on the 40' car, but are not. I have no idea why.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Throwback Thursday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader, February 1959

Craig Wilson
 

The Athearn 50-foot flatcar has proved useful for kitbash projects too.

Way back when the Intermountain 70-ton flatcar was just a twinkle in their eye, I kitbashed a couple of 70-ton, 15 stake pocket flatcars by cutting up two Athearn 50-foot flatcar kits and splicing them back together (tossing the ends with the brake stands).  The cuts were offset and not directly across from each other and I made a replacement deck out of Evergreen styrene sheet.  Made for a reasonably credible model since nothing else was close.  The Ann Arbor RR got several of these second-hand from the DT&I (900-949) which were all modified for specific service.  The DT&I had rebuilt four of them with bulkhead ends for hauling pipe - on the AA they were used for "hardboard" (Masonite).  Others got modified stake pockets and side racks installed for hauling telephone poles.  These racks could be moved to different positions on the cars to accommodate different lengths of poles (they are not movable on the models as they wouldn't stand up to the handling).

I had copies of drawings of the stake pockets and side racks from the DT&I engineering dept. which I used to build a couple of models:

I have seen photos of NP and Soo Line cars which appear to have similar, if not identical, stake pockets and racks which leads me to surmise that these were a commercial product and not home-shop fabricated.

The Athearn kitbash also produced a 70-ton DT&I flatcar loaded with 10 Wiking tractors ("Ferguson" models which are very close to the Ford N tractors in a prototype photo).  I call it my "$80 load on a $10 flatcar" since I picked up the two Athearn flatcars for $5 each at a swap meet.  I have toyed with the idea of replacing this kitbashed flatcar with the nicer Intermountain model but haven't worked up the ambition to redo all the wheel chocks and tie-down cables.

Craig Wilson

Re: WP 19531

Ed Hawkins
 


On Apr 12, 2019, at 6:25 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Anyone have the skinny on this WP PS-1 box car? I -think- it was renumbered
by from what? And has it been repainted as well? The photo date is 1956 but
I can't make out when the car was built.

The image is a scan of a slide that I own.

Tim,
In Oct.-Nov. 1951 the WP received 600 PS-1 box cars WP 20801-21400 built by Pullman-Standard in lot 8027. The first 20 cars 20801-20820 were equipped with Compartmentizers and received aluminum-painted sides & ends along with a full-car length orange feather. The other 580 cars were delivered with freight car red sides & black car cement on the ends, a detail of which will be later discussed. 

Related to the story of WP 19531, starting in 1952 series 20801-20820 was renumbered 19501-19520 with the renumbering being completed by 1-54. Also in mid-1952 the WP sent 20 cars from series 20821-21400 back to Pullman-Standard to be be equipped with Compartmentizers that were built in P-S lot 8121. WP’s intent was for the 20 cars to be painted by P-S to match the 20801-20820 cars & to be renumbered 19521-19540. 

In a letter dated July 15, 1952 addressed to WP, Pullman-Standard advised it would cost the railroad $295.02 per car to sand-blast the black car cement from the ends because the aluminum paint would not adhere well to the black car cement. I came across the letter some 20 years ago while researching the lot 8027 Pullman-Standard correspondence file, documents relating to the construction of selected P-S freight cars that are available for review at the Pullman Library in Union, Illinois.

The railroad decided to not pay P-S to sand-blast the black car cement from the ends, so after installing the Compartmentizers Pullman-Standard returned the 20 cars to WP still in original paint but renumbered 19521-19540. Two additional cars numbered 19541-19542 soon followed to make a total of 42 Compartmentizer-equipped PS-1 box cars by 1-54.

Upon the cars’ return to the railroad, the Sacramento car shops repainted 19521-19542 with aluminum sides & large orange feather to match the original 20801-20820 cars but with the ends that retained the original black car cement as well as black car cement on the roofs. 

Fast-forward to early 1956 when WP 19501-19542 cycled through the Sacramento shops to be repainted in an all freight car red scheme as shown in your slide of 19531 with orange & yellow stencil and small orange feathers. A few photos I’ve seen of these cars denote “SAC. 3-56” when repainted & reweighed. The door & end placards were also lowered at this time.

A photo published on page 25 of the WP Color Guide book shows a MoW car in 1981 (out of scope for the STMFC) in the 1956 paint scheme that remained 25 years later. 

A long-winded answer to your question, but I thought it might be of interest to reflect on some of the details in the sequence of events.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: WP 19531

Brian Carlson
 

From Info that I got from Ed Hawkins
WP 20821-21400 580 10-51 8027 7 YSD-2 H A M A3 Note 11
11 - 22 additional cars (various numbers) sent to Pullman-Standard in 1953 and equipped with Compartmentizers. WP repainted cars silver/orange feather with black roof & ends, re# to 19521-19542.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 7:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WP 19531

Anyone have the skinny on this WP PS-1 box car? I -think- it was renumbered by from what? And has it been repainted as well? The photo date is 1956 but I can't make out when the car was built.

The image is a scan of a slide that I own.

Tim O'



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

WP 19531

Tim O'Connor
 

Anyone have the skinny on this WP PS-1 box car? I -think- it was renumbered
by from what? And has it been repainted as well? The photo date is 1956 but
I can't make out when the car was built.

The image is a scan of a slide that I own.

Tim O'



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Throwback Thursday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader, February 1959

Tim O'Connor
 


You're right! :-D Athearn shared the roof + ends mold with their other reefer - a wood
sheathed rebuild with steel ends and roof. Some have said it's an R-40-24 but...


On 4/12/2019 4:40 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Tim,

Thanks for digging this list out. If it is being edited in any way, let me note the ends of the 40' steel reefer don't match the photos in Tony's PFE book. The Athearn car has 4/3 ends. The R-40-23 had 3/3 ends.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Throwback Thursday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader, February 1959

Tony Thompson
 

Steve Hile wrote:

Here is a snap shot of the metal car.  It would appear that they were only made for a brief time, as I see a 1954 ad in MR listing 40 and 50 foot flat cars as new.  Just a few years later, Athearn moved into plastic.

     Ah, mine is different. I have always thought mine to be a Varney, with a one-piece metal body that is folded to shape, with stake pockets pressed outward (that is, they are part of the body, not a separate strip). Photo below.

Tony Thompson


Re: AB brakes for sale

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

Have one package of Accurail AB brakes for sale.  The pack has 30 AB brakes.  Only $16.00 plus first class shipping of $5.00 if needed.

contact off list railsunl@...

Ted

Re: Throwback Thursday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader, February 1959

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Ben and Dave,

At least two ATSF way cars ended their days on the Central California Traction Co. as CCT 24-25. Originally repainted all-silver in the mid-1960s, later a black stripe along the windows was added. They ended up a brilliant red with huge heralds in the 1970s. The CCT was owned equally by the WP, SP and ATSF, and often drew their equipment from the parent roads.

Enclosed is one of my late father's (Glenn G. Groff) photos from around 1967.


Yours Aye,


Garth Groff





On 4/12/19 3:06 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Dave Lawler wrote:
"I believe the Athe[a]rn, ATSF offset cupola steel caboose is a reasonable stand in for a group of Grand Trunk Western cars."

They should be - GTW acquired 34 ex-ATSF waycars and kept them in service into the 1990s.  Here's a model done by George Dutka.

Ben Hom

Re: Throwback Thursday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader, February 1959

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Thanks for digging this list out. If it is being edited in any way, let me note the ends of the 40' steel reefer don't match the photos in Tony's PFE book. The Athearn car has 4/3 ends. The R-40-23 had 3/3 ends.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/12/19 12:58 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Twenty years ago on the Freightcars mailing list we compiled a list (based on what
was known at the time) of likely prototypes for Athearn freight cars



I marked with a "*" those cars for which far better/more accurate
models are (or soon will be) available (unless you really WANT to
model a Rock Island wide vision caboose on a recycled underframe!)

==========================================================================

 model            prototype

 Rotary Snowplow        Lima-Hamilton 1948 -- possibly SOO/UP/CRI&P   !!
 200 ton crane          Bucyrus-Erie?                                 !!

 bay window caboose     SP C-40-4, built by PC&F 1961                 !!
*cupola caboose        ATSF 1750-2200, needs toolboxes both sides    !!
*wide vision caboose    Rock Island, unique short wheelbase rebuilds  !!

 40' stockcar           UP S-40-12, with reversed roof panels         !!
*40' steel boxcar       1942 AAR 10'6" Soo/IC/DSS&A                   !!
*50' dbl dr steel box   ATSF Fe-24 if you don't count the S-corners   !!
                        Coincidentally similar to CNW/GTW/MKT/IC cars !!
 40' grain loading box    UP BF-50-3 rebuilds if you don't count ends   !!
 40' hicube ribbed      PC&F SP/SSW B-70-36                           !!
 40' hicube smooth    UP BF-50-4?                                   !!
 50' Railbox            XAF10 but it has the wrong roof               !!
 86' hicube 4-door      Greenville                                    !!
 86' hicube 8-door      Thrall                                        !!
*40' DS boxcar          based on 1938 GN cars but too tall            !!

 40' offset hopper      1928 ARA B&O/MP/MILW/B&M/C&O/ERIE/NH          !!
 34' composite hopper    1943 War Emergency                            !!
 34' offset hopper    1940's AAR many many owners, Atlas makes      !!
                        a similar model but it has different ends     !!

*40' steel reefer       PFE R-40-23 also built for NP                 !!
 40' wood reefer        PFE R-40-24 but it's a stretch                !!
 50' mech reefer        PFE R-50-6/R-70-8/10 except for ends/roofs    !!
 50' ribbed reefer      PFE R-70-12                                   !!
 57' mech reefer        PFE R-70-20                                   !!

 3-bay covered hopper   PS2 4740 1968-1972?                           !!
 4-bay covered hopper   ACF 5250 late production version up to 1971   !!

 40' single dome tank   GAT/SP O-50-13 ignoring dome/rivet errors     !!
 62' tankcar            ACF possibly based on GN fuel car in 66 CYC   !!

 20' smooth container   ?
 20' ribbed container   ?
 40' ribbed container   ?
 40' TOFC trailer    Fruehauf possibly based on PFE/FGE trailers   !!
 45' TOFC trailer    Fruehauf Z-Van                                !!
 48' container          Monon design                                  !!

 40' flatcar        Rutland by coincidence                        !!
 85' piggyback flat     Pullman 1960-1961                             !!
 85' all purpose flat   4 feet shorter than the prototype             !!
 heavy duty flatcar     Commonwealth cast steel; model is oversize    !!
 40' pulpwood flatcar   based on a rather obscure MP prototype        !!

 Husky Stack            Gunderson
 5-unit well cars       Gunderson Maxi-III

 gondola canisters      similar to D&H cement cannisters              !!

Athearn cars with no clear prototypes or at least embroiled in debate
=====================================================================

*50' flatcar            many 13-pockets cars existed but none that    !!
                        match it -- can cut down to 12-pockets and    !!
                        model MILW road 46' cars                      !!

 25' TOFC trailers      who knows

 34' ribside hopper     rumored perhaps to be similar to N&W cars?    !!

*50' sgl dr steel box   based on 1942 ARA drawings but no prototypes? !!
                        Irv probably took photos of B-50-22, but then !!
                        used the wrong drawings to model it. :^)      !!

*50' plug dr boxcar     based on 1960's ACF but with 1942 ends. Much  !!
                        better model was produced by Front Range      !!

 50' plug dr ribbed box maybe North American leasing cars? Then again !!
                        possibly just a mish-mosh of designs          !!

 50' DD Railbox         by a stretch one can imagine this is based on !!
                        an SP prototype but I think it's coincidental !!

*40' chemical tankcar   frankly, a mess                               !!

 40' 3-dome tankcar     grossly oversize                              !!

*50' gondola            a shortened 1941 Greenville gondola           !!

 gondola containers     similar to N&W gondola containers?            !!

 covered gondola        nicely done roof for a short model            !!



On 4/12/2019 2:24 AM, Bill Keene via Groups.Io wrote:
Garth,

Wasn't Athearn's stock car based upon a Union Pacific prototype?

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Apr 11, 2019, at 11:13 PM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Jim,

Some but not many. The 40' flatcar (a hold-over from the metal kits, by the way) only has a Rutland Prototype. Their 40' tank car is similar to SP, WP and UP 12K tanks, but has a lot of problems as it was a retool of their foobie 3-dome tank. Their 40' 10'6" IH square-corner boxcar was used only by two or three railroads. Their cupola caboose is ATSF and similar to some CRR cars (different steps), while their bay window is SP. The crane matches up to closely to several prototypes. The hoppers aren't too bad. None of these are perfect, and I'm sure all of you are going to enjoy picking my suggestions apart. In my view, most Athearn cars are useful as fodder for conversions.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/11/19 6:50 PM, James Lackner wrote:
And did any of these (in this advertisement), ever match a specific
prototype?  All that I have ever seen is "similar to, but not an exact
match to...."

Jim Lackner







--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts