Date   

Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.

 

Many years ago I questioned a Floquil representative about why colors purchased years apart looked so different.  He told me they didn’t have standards  (drift cards), but simply compared the new batch to the previous batch.  I started my career matching cosmetic colors for a pigment manufacturer.  I can tell you it’s a really bad idea. – Al Westerfield

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jerry Michels
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 11:12 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Old square bottle Floquil paints.

 

  Uh, maybe yours was (or is), but mine is a faint yellow color, nearly clear. Still works fine and must be over 30 years old.

 

Tony,

 

The choice of words might not have been accurate.  I'd agree that light yellow was the original color, but I have some old Glaze that looks like a good Canadian Whisky.

 

Jerry Michels

 


Re: Doors with inside detail

Richard Townsend
 

My oversight


Re: Doors with inside detail

Bill Welch
 

I noted that in my post on April 13 I cut the door in Sections and re-assembled to get the proper look of the corrugations.

Bill Welch


Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.

Jerry Michels
 

  Uh, maybe yours was (or is), but mine is a faint yellow color, nearly clear. Still works fine and must be over 30 years old.

Tony,

The choice of words might not have been accurate.  I'd agree that light yellow was the original color, but I have some old Glaze that looks like a good Canadian Whisky.

Jerry Michels


Re: Doors with inside detail

Richard Townsend
 

If you want to use the stamped Athearn/Menzies/Baker doors you will have to do some cutting and reassembly. The doors have the placard boards stamped into them as well as the corrugations. It’s not difficult (I have done it). Maybe the auxiliary doors from a double door kit don’t have that issue.


Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.

Tony Thompson
 

Jerry Michels wrote:

Glaze was amber

    Uh, maybe yours was (or is), but mine is a faint yellow color, nearly clear. Still works fine and must be over 30 years old.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.

Tony Thompson
 

Denny Anspach wrote:

Other old “clear” square bottle Floquil products were Crystal Cote (like gin) -an alternate to Gloss Coat-;  Barrier (like ginger ale) . . .

    Gin and ginger ale? Not sure where the consumables thread is going . . .

Tony Thompson




Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.

Lester Breuer
 

Denny in message 146746  on this list Randy Danniel states, “I copied the Diosol formula posted in one of the yahoo groups several years ago by a chemist who lab analyzed and posted the formula. This is as posted verbatim.
"38% by vol toluene, 41% by vol xylene and 21% by vol Solvesso 100 (a long evaporation rate aromatic hydrocarbon solvent). Getting the toluene and xylene is not difficult, but the Solvesso 100 is only available through chemical suppliers."

I use a mix of 50% xylene and 50% toluene since DIosol went off the market as I read somewhere that was the Diosol mix. I have both available in the paint department of local hardware store or home improvement store. I as others also have Scalecoat thinner purchased at the local hobby shop on hand which Nelson said is also a mix of these products.

Both my mix or the Scalecoat thinner have worked very well with the Floquil solvent paints I have remaining on hand including one or two square bottles.

Lester Breuer






Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.

Jerry Michels
 

Glaze was amber
Hi-Gloss and Crystal (Krystal?)-Coat were both clear as water.  I never saw a big difference between the two.

Any of you guys remember the red booklet Floquil had regarding their paints?  I remember reading it in the 1970s, and it just being a fun read with the about pigment particle size, how to paint, top coats, etc.  Ah, good memories.

I have used straight lacquer thinner for over 30 years for thinning and cleaning and have never had a problem.  Even Floquil thinned with lacquer thinner and stored lasts quite nicely.

Jerry Michels


Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.- Floquil Crystal Cote and Barrier

Tim O'Connor
 

I routinely mix Crystal Cote with Floquil colors (to make them glossier) and have never
used any thinner other than DioSol and have never had any issues with using on plastic.
You could be right about Barrier - I've never used it.

Tim O'

On 4/14/2019 3:59 PM, qmp211 wrote:

Floquil Crystal Cote and Barrier are alcohol based products and had their own thinner.

The use of Diosol negates the coatings' plastic safe properties.

Randy Danniel
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints. - Original Diosol Floquil Thinner formula

Jeff Coleman
 

After my last can of Diosol ran out I had access to Toluene and Xylene at work. Our paint shop supervisor gave me a pint of roughly 50-50 mix. When that was gone I switched to 100% Xylene as we no longer used Toluene. 
This works well with old (square bottles) and both older Floquil and newer Testors formula. 
Both Glaze and High Gloss were clear amber and I've had both darken and set-up in bottle, something not the norm for the regular paints.

Jeff Coleman

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 3:49 PM qmp211 <milepost206@...> wrote:

Denny,

Here's the Diosol formula posted on another site by a chemist who did the analysis

"...38% by vol toluene , 41% by vol xylene  and  21% by  vol  Solvesso  100  ( a long evaporation rate aromatic hydrocarbon solvent ).   Getting  the  toluene  and  xylene  is not difficult , but  the  Solvesso 100 is only available  through  chemical suppliers"

 Solvesso 100 solvent is a grade of Naptha.

I found by mixing my own Diosol buy the finest grade solvents you can. A good Sherwin-Williams store has everything. I would avoid the chain stores.

This formula will rejuvenate old bottles of Floquil paint, some better than others. Filter the results if you have doubts. And it should rejuvenate your bottle of Glaze unless it has turned to jelly.

Exercise caution and mix components in a well ventilated space.

Randy Danniel







Re: Doors with inside detail

Joe Pauley
 


Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.- Floquil Crystal Cote and Barrier

qmp211
 

Floquil Crystal Cote and Barrier are alcohol based products and had their own thinner.

The use of Diosol negates the coatings' plastic safe properties.

Randy Danniel


Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints. - Original Diosol Floquil Thinner formula

qmp211
 

Denny,

Here's the Diosol formula posted on another site by a chemist who did the analysis

"...38% by vol toluene , 41% by vol xylene  and  21% by  vol  Solvesso  100  ( a long evaporation rate aromatic hydrocarbon solvent ).   Getting  the  toluene  and  xylene  is not difficult , but  the  Solvesso 100 is only available  through  chemical suppliers"

 Solvesso 100 solvent is a grade of Naptha.

I found by mixing my own Diosol buy the finest grade solvents you can. A good Sherwin-Williams store has everything. I would avoid the chain stores.

This formula will rejuvenate old bottles of Floquil paint, some better than others. Filter the results if you have doubts. And it should rejuvenate your bottle of Glaze unless it has turned to jelly.

Exercise caution and mix components in a well ventilated space.

Randy Danniel







Re: Doors with inside detail

Bill Welch
 


Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.

Denny Anspach
 

Well, Ralph Brown has it….Glaze (I found someone, i.e. me..?... had written with a Sharpie on the glass itself a barely discernible ‘GLAZE”.  I never really used it extensively, but as I recall, Floquil described it as “Floquil paint base minus pigments”  If I also recall correctly, when added, it did impart a slight satin or egg shell character to the finish, and it was supposed to rejuvenate diminished Floquil paints in ways that just solvents alone were not able to do..

Other old “clear” square bottle Floquil products were Crystal Cote (like gin) -an alternate to Gloss Coat-;  Barrier (like ginger ale), which application was required on styrene before Floquil could be applied, and Retarder- now reportedly clear…)  a very useful additive in humid/un air-conditioned climates. 

I am taking note of Nelson Moyer’s  and Jack Burgess’s experience with Floquil thinner (I have yet to determine whether it is still available under some new name).  Jeff Coleman’ s experience with Xylene alone is attractive for its simplicity.  These thinners ware useful for all Floquils, i.e. old and new….right?

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.

Tim O'Connor
 

I agree with Ralph - Glaze is an "amber clear" color - I suppose it could darken although I have
not seen that happen. Maybe it's contaminated?

On 4/14/2019 1:43 AM, Ralph W. Brown wrote:
Hi Denny,

It has been quite some time since I've used it, but I suspect your unlabeled bottle of "dark rum" might be Floquil "glaze."  In addition to imparting some luster, as opposed to gloss, to Floquil's otherwise flat finish, I recall it was recommended for making seriously thinned Floquil less "watery."  Wish I could remember exactly how Floquil put it.

Pax,


Ralph Brown
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Walthers HO 1944 AAR modified boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Randy

I don't know what to call them other than "AAR" cars with annotations (ends, roofs, interior height, etc)
but I agree that 10-0 IH was a popular size after the war. The Southern Pacific never bought any 10-6 IH
40 foot cars and acquired 26,944 (by my count) "AAR" 40 foot 10-0 cars from 1936 to 1953.

Tim O'Connor



In regards to the terminology, best I can tell the 10’6” IH was added as an optional standard in 1941, and didn’t change again until 1947 when the 10’0” IH was removed from

the standard.

What we often call ‘1944’ or ‘postwar’ cars simply have SREM Improved Dreadnaugh Ends, but the standard itself didn’t change. Those just happened to be the latest (trademarked) end they produced. The majority were 10’6” IH cars, but as we know, there were a fair number of 10’0” IH cars built too.

The “proper” terminology is something I’ve been trying to figure out, because some of it is modeler/railfan/historian terminology, rather than from the actual standards. It is helpful to a certain extent, but we are usually using visible components to describe the variants when I believe the standard was more about the dimensions and underframe is than the carbody. This means, for example, that we often omit cars with Pullman-Standard or ACF carbuilders ends from identification lists as if they weren’t AAR Standard cars of whichever type.

Technically, I think that a 10’0” IH car with an Improved Dreadnaught End is a 1937 AAR Standard Car, and one with a 10’6” IH is a Modified 1937 AAR Standard Car, if built before 1947 anyway. After that point it’s a 1947(?) AAR Standard Car.

I know that’s not the terminology we usually use, but what do the experts think?

Randy
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Doors with inside detail

Tim O'Connor
 


Not true, at least not in all cases. Many doors had no interior lining.

This photo attached shows the back side of corrugated doors. I agree with Tony, the aluminum foil
should work fine - or you can use styrene strips glued to the back side of the door. Personally I have
not bothered on cars I have modeled with an open or partially open door. You can only appreciate
such details in close up photography. I'm leaning more towards Hendrickson's attitude that if you
can't see it (easily, during normal use), then what's the point?

Not that I don't appreciate the "museum" quality stuff... ;-)

Tim O'



On 4/13/2019 4:48 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io wrote:
Steve. The steel ribs, actually steel bar only appeared on the outside of superior doors. The inside would be flat steel plate. 

See the photo from Gene Greene’s blog post. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/myp48.wordpress.com/2018/01/08/modeling-more-information-on-doors/amp/


Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 13, 2019, at 4:24 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Throwback Thursday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader, February 1959

Tim O'Connor
 

And Dennis, wasn't that roof panels mistake repeated on the original Proto 2000 50 foot car ?
Inexplicible mistake in both cases, assuming both of them had either photos or drawings to work from.

Tim O'Connor

===================================

Another oddity that no one has mentioned is the 50' boxcar roofs all seem to be missing a panel, being 14 panels rather than the correct 15. The panels themselves should be the same width as those on the 40' car, but are not. I have no idea why. Dennis Storzek



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*