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Re: Throwback Tuesday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader October 1959
Larry Smith
The hopper car with some added parts is a very accurate model of a C&O car as well as the B&O car. There have been several articles on adding the parts to the C&O versions. Larry Smith
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019, 9:18:01 AM CDT, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Athearn Rolling Stock Ad from the October 1959 issue of Model Railroader. Ben Hom
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Throwback Tuesday: Athearn Rolling Stock Ad, Model Railroader October 1959
Benjamin Hom
Athearn Rolling Stock Ad from the October 1959 issue of Model Railroader. Ben Hom
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Dennis Storzek
On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 07:45 PM, Ralph W. Brown wrote:
I suspect some ignorant home improvement guru called it “shiplap,” others liked the name, and the misnomer stuck. Oh, well . . .No, "shiplap" used to have a specific meaning in the lumber and construction industries, it was lumber with the edges milled with a rabbet on each edge half the width of the edge, so the boards overlapped when laid flat. Nothing was said about how the surface of the board was milled, and shiplap was common on lesser quality boards that were typically used for the sub-flooring under hardwood floors, and sub-siding behind the finish siding. Back in the days before house wraps, the overlapping joints kept out the drafts even if the boards shrank. The home improvement gurus seem to be using the general term for other patterns that provide a rabbet for the top edge, even though the generally accepted term for these patterns was "novelty siding" with different mills having specific names for the pattern of the cut-out reveal: Drop siding, Duch drop, Dolly Varden... The self covering of the gap at the joint is the reason why the Master Car Builders Association adopted the pattern for flooring and lining of boxcars; if the boards shrank as they dried out, they still wouldn't leak grain from the joints. Several of the mill sections shown in this illustration from the 1922 CBC are shiplap:
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Re: Doors with inside detail
jerryglow2
See my post in the thread on grain level markings. It contains a PDF of interiors with doors.
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Ralph W. Brown
Hi Tony,
I don’t think we really have a disagreement here. I understand what
is being called “shiplap,” but regardless of what it’s called, it has nothing to
do with boat or ship building methods. As such, it is a complete and total
misnomer. As far as I know, it has nothing to do with freight car
construction either.
How did we get off onto “shiplap” anyway?
Pax,
Ralph
Brown
Portland, Maine PRRT&HS No. 3966 NMRA No. L2532 rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
From: Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 10:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in
styrene Ralph Brown wrote: In the seafaring sense, “shiplap,” is more correctly called “lapstrake” (typically pronounced lap-strack) or “clinker-built.” The architectural equivalent would be clapboard (sometimes pronounced kla-bord). So, what you “always thought” is correct. Sorry, Ralph, not so. Clapboard and lap-strake have
similarities, but they are NOT the same as shiplap. True shiplap is just a plain
board rabbeted top and bottom for a snug fit. That is not true of clapboard.
Novelty or Drop siding has a more sculptured overlap, but shiplap has none.
Sometimes shiplap is laid with a slight gap between boards (revealing the
rabbet) but is normally laid tight.
Tony
Thompson
Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA
94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail,
tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Nelson Moyer
Not quite that simple. Novelty siding is a generic category, and there are many sub-categories.
http://www.woodsiding.com/pattern.htm
Both clapboard and shiplap are sub-categories of novelty siding.
Vinyl Dutch Lap siding has a slightly different profile than the wood version.
http://www.all-about-siding.com/dutch-lap-siding.html
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 9:18 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Google it and you’ll find that Novelty, Dutch Drop, German Drop, Cove, and Drop siding are all the same thing.
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Ralph W. Brown
Nice, Jack!
Ralph
Brown
Portland, Maine PRRT&HS No. 3966 NMRA No. L2532 rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
From: Jack Burgess
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 6:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in
styrene Car siding is T&G with a V-grove. Floor material is also typically T&G without the reveal…the advantage of T&G is that the boards will stay flat (for floors) or even with box cars.
You can still buy 3 ¼” V-groove T&G from a lumber yard (that is the same size boards typically use for freight cars). I bought some a few months ago and used it to fill in what had originally been lattice work. The hardware was (with permission) removed from a Yosemite Valley Railroad stock car.
Jack Burgess
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Charlie Vlk
Randy Hees and all- A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding…. One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it. I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding. The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding). Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up. Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology? Charlie Vlk
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Tony Thompson
Ralph Brown wrote: In the seafaring sense, “shiplap,” is more correctly called “lapstrake” (typically pronounced lap-strack) or “clinker-built.” The architectural equivalent would be clapboard (sometimes pronounced kla-bord). So, what you “always thought” is correct. Sorry, Ralph, not so. Clapboard and lap-strake have similarities, but they are NOT the same as shiplap. True shiplap is just a plain board rabbeted top and bottom for a snug fit. That is not true of clapboard. Novelty or Drop siding has a more sculptured overlap, but shiplap has none. Sometimes shiplap is laid with a slight gap between boards (revealing the rabbet) but is normally laid tight. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Ralph W. Brown
Hi Charlie,
Most of the home improvement “shiplap” images I’ve seen are real more like
the tongue and groove siding used on some wood freight and passenger cars.
In the seafaring sense, “shiplap,” is more correctly called “lapstrake”
(typically pronounced lap-strack) or “clinker-built.” The
architectural equivalent would be clapboard (sometimes pronounced
kla-bord). So, what you “always thought” is correct.
I suspect some ignorant home improvement guru called it “shiplap,” others
liked the name, and the misnomer stuck. Oh, well . . .
In any event, I don’t know of any instances in which such siding was used
on either freight or passenger cars. Not to say it wasn’t, but I’ve yet to
see or hear of examples of it.
Pax,
Ralph
Brown
Portland, Maine PRRT&HS No. 3966 NMRA No. L2532 rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
From: Charlie
Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 5:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in
styrene Randy Hees and all- A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding…. One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it. I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding. The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding). Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up. Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology? Charlie Vlk
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Tony Thompson
Google it and you’ll find that Novelty, Dutch Drop, German Drop, Cove, and Drop siding are all the same thing.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Tony Thompson
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Overland Poultry Car
dale florence <dwwesley@...>
I would like to purchase an HO Overland Models Palace Poultry Car for $400.00 plus $10.00 foe shipping. This is for an unpainted model. If painted and decaled, will pay more. Dale Florence
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Nelson Moyer
I guess there aren’t all that many Dutch immigrants in Southern California compared to the Midwest. Here in Iowa, siding that’s vertical with an inward curve and a short flat at the top is Dutch Lap. I have it on my house. CB&Q used it on many of their wood depots, usually on the bottom three to four feet, with board and batten above. The CB&Q depot at Donaldsonville, IA is an example. Clapboard is flat sloping inward from bottom to top.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 7:09 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Gosh, Nelson, SP called “this stuff” Novelty on their structures . . . Tony Thompson
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Tony Thompson
Gosh, Nelson, SP called “this stuff” Novelty on their structures . . .
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Tony Thompson
On Apr 15, 2019, at 4:17 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:
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Re: Menzies Metal Door to create backside of Door
that's awesomely cool Bill... very well done Did you write an article about this door?
On 4/15/2019 5:56 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
Time of day/angle of the sun made getting a good photo difficult but here are four angles, some with aid of flash showing my Sunshine model of Warrior River Terminal 1932 car with Sunshine interior and the three sections of Menzies doors to replicate the backside of a Youngstown door. Each joint is just above the large ribs. I really like the little bit of corrosion on the metal. My thinking in doing this is that the car would be spotted at a siding or Team Track to loaded or unloaded. The interior tells the viewer something about how cars were built and equipped. I have a one SS MILW model and one S&A DS model with one door open to see the back side of the opposite side wood door interior and how they were constructed. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Nelson Moyer
Evergreen Novelty Siding is actually Dutch Lap.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 4:13 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Randy Hees and all- A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding…. One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it. I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding. The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding). Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up. Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology? Charlie Vlk
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Jack Burgess
Car siding is T&G with a V-grove. Floor material is also typically T&G without the reveal…the advantage of T&G is that the boards will stay flat (for floors) or even with box cars.
You can still buy 3 ¼” V-groove T&G from a lumber yard (that is the same size boards typically use for freight cars). I bought some a few months ago and used it to fill in what had originally been lattice work. The hardware was (with permission) removed from a Yosemite Valley Railroad stock car.
Jack Burgess
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 2:13 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Randy Hees and all- A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding…. One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it. I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding. The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding). Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up. Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology? Charlie Vlk
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Re: Old square bottle Floquil paints.
Lester Breuer
I misquoted Nelson when I said Nelson said Scale coat was a mix of xylene and toluene. He said that about Diosol rather than Scalecoat. My error. Forgive.
Lester Breuer
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Menzies Metal Door to create backside of Door
Bill Welch
Time of day/angle of the sun made getting a good photo difficult but here are four angles, some with aid of flash showing my Sunshine model of Warrior River Terminal 1932 car with Sunshine interior and the three sections of Menzies doors to replicate the backside of a Youngstown door. Each joint is just above the large ribs. I really like the little bit of corrosion on the metal. My thinking in doing this is that the car would be spotted at a siding or Team Track to loaded or unloaded. The interior tells the viewer something about how cars were built and equipped. I have a one SS MILW model and one S&A DS model with one door open to see the back side of the opposite side wood door interior and how they were constructed.
Bill Welch
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Re: Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
Charlie Vlk
Randy Hees and all- A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding…. One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it. I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding. The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding). Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up. Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology? Charlie Vlk
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Doors with inside detail
Andy Carlson
A little work, but builds up a foundation of skills which can be very useful in the future. If I wanted an inside piece of a Youngstown door, I would make a quick mold of a door with either the craft store Michael's AMAZING PUTTY, an RTV type of product which makes good molds without mold boxes (easing the effort to make molds). If using this product, make sure the top of the mold (which will become the future "back" of the mold) is even and straight, as this will help keep castings straight afterwards. When the mold is cured, apply a good, even coating of petrolatum (Vaseline) to the cavity. Now add a new mix of putty, essentially making a door casting with RTV instead of resin. This "Mold-of-a-Mold" will make suitable inside parts of a Youngstown door with a coating of a small amount of JB Weld epoxy, the traditional type, available from Auto Parts Stores. As a bonus, you also have a mold to make extra Youngstown doors. An alternative to the amazing Putty, is also found at an auto parts store. Buy a tube of high-temp 1200 degree exhaust gasket, such as made by Permatex. Build up thin coatings of this material with a flat sided toothpick several times until a casting of proper thickness is achieved. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA
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