Date   

Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Exactly...............and they'll sell zillions of them to less learned fans of the SP. Just think..........Athearn B&O PA's!

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 1, 2019, 6:48:56 PM CDT, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


      The trouble with pretending they are USRA cars, when they aren't at all, is shown by the SP car numbers listed for the single-sheathed cars. The numbers are in fact SP's USRA box car numbers -- but the body is far closer to their ARA-style car of some years later, Class B-50-15. So they are d---ned if they do and d---ned if they don't. Car numbers to fit the body style would not fit their (bogus) USRA description.
        Do these clowns talk to no one? read no publications?

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

Tony Thompson
 

      The trouble with pretending they are USRA cars, when they aren't at all, is shown by the SP car numbers listed for the single-sheathed cars. The numbers are in fact SP's USRA box car numbers -- but the body is far closer to their ARA-style car of some years later, Class B-50-15. So they are d---ned if they do and d---ned if they don't. Car numbers to fit the body style would not fit their (bogus) USRA description.
        Do these clowns talk to no one? read no publications?

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Yes, sorry. - Al

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Benjamin Hom
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 4:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Al Westerfield wrote:
"The Howe truss cars are wrong for at least 5 of the 6.  They are USRA lettering, (B&O, MEC, MILW, NYC, PRR, SP) but major roads didn’t buy the Howe." 

 

You meant Pratt truss.

 


Ben Hom

 


Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 12:25 PM, James SANDIFER wrote:
Interesting is the model car height data. Several of the models have one of the heights as 5-0, 5-2, 5-5 and 5-8. The only dimension that fits those numbers is the height from rail to extreme width. Was this a common practice in dimensional data or did Proto mess up? Dimensional Data has always been awkward for me to understand, and It seems that railroads did not measure the cars the same way.
The total height of cars has never been particularly important to North American railroads, given our large clearance diagram. The mainlines were laid out so that there was clearance for a man standing on top of the car, and low obstructions just ate into that extra 6', marked by telltales to warn the men to get down.

The clearance point that was problematic was at the eaves, where tall cars were likely to interfere with arched openings and canopy braces. When the ARA standardized dimensional data in 1926, all they concerned themselves with was the interior dimensions (which were important to the shipper) and the width of the eves, designated as EW, and the height of that point above the rail, designated as EH. As I understand it, this was to be measured at the highest point along the eaves, which would be the edge of the latitudinal walk.

This was revised in the early thirties to add the extreme width information. The eave dimensions were moved to one line, as EW  00-00  H  00-00, and the new extreme width was added as a line above, EXW  00-00  H  00-00, the H being the height of the extreme width above the rail. If it is close to the eave height it is typically the door hangers; if around 5' it is the door handle or seal staple.

Dennis Storzek


Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Al Westerfield wrote:
"The Howe truss cars are wrong for at least 5 of the 6.  They are USRA lettering, (B&O, MEC, MILW, NYC, PRR, SP) but major roads didn’t buy the Howe." 

You meant Pratt truss.


Ben Hom



Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

 

The Walthers monthly mailer shows all the roadnames.  The DS cars appear right, (ATSF, GN. CB&Q, TH&B, WAB) except fornon-existent  UP.  The Howe truss cars are wrong for at least 5 of the 6.  They are USRA lettering, (B&O, MEC, MILW, NYC, PRR, SP) but major roads didn’t buy the Howe.

 

I emailed Walthers about the cars.  It appears they already are aware of the USRA SS problem, as the photo is no longer on their web site. – Al Westerfield

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 3:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Has anyone see a list of roadnames for these new cars?

Dennis Storzek

 


Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

 

On May 1, 2019, at 5:43 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

Has anyone see a list of roadnames for these new cars?

Dennis Storzek


Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

Dennis Storzek
 

Has anyone see a list of roadnames for these new cars?

Dennis Storzek


Re: What's the sideways N after the end of the road number on this M&StL boxcar?

Lloyd Keyser
 

That is being used as a Z which means the car has been inspected and is marked for scraping. Lloyd Keyser


On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 4:59 PM Colin 't Hart <colinthart@...> wrote:

Hi,

Researching M&StL boxcars, I came across this photo:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-m/mstl5038f10.jpg

There is what looks like a sideways N after the road number. Anyone seen anything like it before? What does it mean?

Apologies if this car is too modern here.

Thanks,

Colin


What's the sideways N after the end of the road number on this M&StL boxcar?

 

Hi,

Researching M&StL boxcars, I came across this photo:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-m/mstl5038f10.jpg

There is what looks like a sideways N after the road number. Anyone seen anything like it before? What does it mean?

Apologies if this car is too modern here.

Thanks,

Colin


Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Just now seeing the paint schemes. The earlier links only showed the undecs.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 at 3:35 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Brian Ehni wrote:

"Except these are all one-time-only (according to the pages)."

 

Have some land in Florida to sell you if you believe that...maybe for those car numbers, but you don't invest money in new injection-molded tooling to sell models only once.

 

 

Ben Hom


Re: Cornel University collection

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bryan and List Members,
 
When I lived in San Francisco, I saw parts of Harrison St that still had the remains of street trackage and had depressions in the pavement that looked just like that - I figured it must have been from cars that left the rails and got rolled along the pavement.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: boro2ang
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Cornel University collection

There's been a couple of cars on the ground in this shot.

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20863490

Bryan Borovec


Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Brian Ehni wrote:
"Except these are all one-time-only (according to the pages)."

Have some land in Florida to sell you if you believe that...maybe for those car numbers, but you don't invest money in new injection-molded tooling to sell models only once.


Ben Hom


Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Except these are all one-time-only (according to the pages).

 

Thanks!

-- 

Brian Ehni

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io" <rwitt_2000@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 at 12:03 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Or maybe they are an excuse to replace some of the old Train-Miniature tooling Walthers owns.

Bob Witt


Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Pretty expensive for undec cars with molded on ladders.

 

Thanks!

-- 

Brian Ehni

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 7:24 PM
To: "RealSTMFC@groups.io" <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] New Walthers USRA based cars

 

Folks,

 

The new Walthers flyer includes four new steam era freight cars:

 

40' double sheathed USRA boxcar

https://www.walthers.com/40-usra-wood-boxcar-ready-to-run-undecorated

 

40' USRA single sheathed boxcar

https://www.walthers.com/40-usra-composite-boxcar-ready-to-run-undecorated

- dang, look at those boards! SMH

 

40' steel USRA rebuilt wood boxcar

https://www.walthers.com/40-steel-rebuilt-usra-wood-boxcar-ready-to-run-undecorated

 

40' Early Wood Reefer

https://www.walthers.com/40-early-wood-reefer-ready-to-run-undecorated

This looks like a USRA reefer.

 

These cars are in the WalthersMainline series and have molded on grab irons. Interestingly the "single sheathed boxcar" appears to not have the classic USRA underframe that the other 3 cars show. These may make some interesting detailing and kit bashing fodder.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


Re: WP ribside car

O Fenton Wells
 

The car looks awfully good and I’m sure The Amana company will be glad to load it wit their products and send it to their regional warehouse 
Fenton 


On May 1, 2019, at 3:33 PM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

I see it is assigned to agent at Amana IA, which would be Amana Refrigeration. Maker of appliances: refrigerators & air conditioners, and in the 60’s microwave ovens.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 12:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WP ribside car

 

Thanks to those who replied to my query for a friend he was able to do a 'creditable' model of one of the Milwaukee ribside cars sold to the WP. Attached
CW Propst


Re: WP ribside car

Douglas Harding
 

I see it is assigned to agent at Amana IA, which would be Amana Refrigeration. Maker of appliances: refrigerators & air conditioners, and in the 60’s microwave ovens.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 12:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WP ribside car

 

Thanks to those who replied to my query for a friend he was able to do a 'creditable' model of one of the Milwaukee ribside cars sold to the WP. Attached
CW Propst


Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

Steve SANDIFER
 

Mont Switzer wrote an article in the NMRA Magazine, November 2011, on the C&IM cars. He mentions the absence of a retainer and its air line on the model. Also no cut lever or air hoses. 

 

I pulled my models out. The stock car model and the box car model are the same size, an economy in production. The box car does have the Klausing break mechanism, a very nice casting. I tried to read the dimensional data from the side of my models and compare them to the 1950 ORER.  That proved to be a challenge even with my optivisor as the lettering is very small. Knowing Richard Hendrickson, who consulted on these, his data would have been based on photos or the ORER, but there is considerable variation in the Height dimensions on the models. The photos in his Railmodel Journal article showed all of the cars heavily weathered. One also finds a variety of trucks under the cars, probably related to the date of the photo.

 

Interesting is the model car height data. Several of the models have one of the heights as 5-0, 5-2, 5-5 and 5-8. The only dimension that fits those numbers is the height from rail to extreme width. Was this a common practice in dimensional data or did Proto mess up? Dimensional Data has always been awkward for me to understand, and It seems that railroads did not measure the cars the same way. Note the variation in the 1950 ORER for the various cars.

 

I attach a Excel spreadsheet of the data from cars in my collection with the data from the 1950 ORER. The model is 11-11 to the eaves and 13-1 to the running board, so the ACY and MWR cars are too short for the prototype height. The model would be like the Sunshine Kits 6 and 7. The C&EI, C&IM, IN, MRS, and PH&D are within one to two inches of ORER specs. These cars are highly detailed and add a nice variety to the layout. I think Proto only did 2 numbers of each, which is appropriate considering most of the leasers had less than 169 of them in 1950. Only the C&IM (of those in my collection) had greater numbers, 453.

 

The ACY, MRW, and MWR had both the short and the taller Mather cars. Sunshine did the taller cars in the 103 series.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

Mather produced boxcars with a few different interior heights. There were also some 36-foot Mather boxcars rolling around before 1930. Just because it is labeled as a Mather boxcar, stock car, or reefer does not mean they are all the same. They came from the same builder. IIRC, at one point the AC&Y had two series of Mather boxcars with different interior heights.

 

I suspect the Proto2000 models produced by Life-Like followed prototypes for certain time frames. Mather leased these cars and they were reused after leases expired. The cars returned to the Mather shops for repaint and reletter for the new lessee. You will need to consult the ORER for your modeling period to determine where the Mather cars were used.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick


Re: Cornel University collection

Andrew
 

Thanks for posting. A treasure trove!


Re: WP ribside car

gtws00
 

Nicely Done
George Toman

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