Date   
Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi folks,

    During my late 1940's modeling period Phillips Petroleum cars were seen quite often on the trackage of the former Connecticut & Passumpsic Rivers RR between white River Junction & Newport, Vermont. In that period the track north of Wells River, roughly the half way point, was owned by the CPR which bought it in 1946 after leasing it since 1926, while that south of Wells River was
by the Boston & Maine. It was also jointly operated with both railroads providing equipment and crews. Phil Hastings took photos
in this area often, being raised in Bradford on the B&M section of the line. Over the years Phil provided me with a number of photos
of operations in the area, a couple of which show the Phillips Petroleum cars. All of them appear to have been for LNG or LPG and
of the ICC 105A300W or 104A types. I know #15001 was an 11,000 gal. car of Type 104A and believe it was originally constructed in Sept. 1927. Most of these cars were painted completely black with white lettering and a large "Philgas" painted on the right end of the tank. Does anyone have any further information on these cars, especially where they were coming from or going to? There were over 600 at least similar cars owned or leased by Phillips that carried PSPX reporting marks with the majority being 11,000 gal. cars, some being 10,500 gal, and a very few being of lesser or different capacity. If any of these cars prove to be very close to either the Broadway or Atlas tank cars of this type my intent is to lobby them to produce some. Yeah, I know, go kick a hydrant, bit I've had some luck with both previously.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Lloyd Keyser
 

Philgas and Skelgas  were widely seen in the midwest. Several years ago I sent photos of these cars to Atlas. I received no reply. Champ decals brought out Philgas HT-66 and I think Skelgas. In stead they bring out company's I've never heard of. Wouldn't hurt to try again. I have a photo of Philgas with and without platform. I may have to take a car strip it , paint it black and decal it.

SAL's B-3/4/5 underframes

rwilson1056
 

were all 3 classes set up the same? single cross-bearer centered under the door? looks like 4's and 5's were at least
roger wilson - modeling Tallahassee Sub May/June 1951 

Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

mopacfirst
 

Got it. 

Ron Merrick

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Douglas Harding
 

Don a quick google search reveals

https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=PH004

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_Petroleum_Company

Phillips was based in Bartlesville Oklahoma, started in 1917. By 1925 it was the largest producer of natural gas liquids.

 

The founders had roots in Iowa https://data.desmoinesregister.com/famous-iowans/le-and-frank-phillips

 

Attached are photos I have of Phillips Petroleum cars, etc. Some of the photos came from the Barriger Library Collection. The company leased tankcars from Shippers.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 1:08 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

 

Hi folks,

 

    During my late 1940's modeling period Phillips Petroleum cars were seen quite often on the trackage of the former Connecticut & Passumpsic Rivers RR between white River Junction & Newport, Vermont. In that period the track north of Wells River, roughly the half way point, was owned by the CPR which bought it in 1946 after leasing it since 1926, while that south of Wells River was

by the Boston & Maine. It was also jointly operated with both railroads providing equipment and crews. Phil Hastings took photos

in this area often, being raised in Bradford on the B&M section of the line. Over the years Phil provided me with a number of photos

of operations in the area, a couple of which show the Phillips Petroleum cars. All of them appear to have been for LNG or LPG and

of the ICC 105A300W or 104A types. I know #15001 was an 11,000 gal. car of Type 104A and believe it was originally constructed in Sept. 1927. Most of these cars were painted completely black with white lettering and a large "Philgas" painted on the right end of the tank. Does anyone have any further information on these cars, especially where they were coming from or going to? There were over 600 at least similar cars owned or leased by Phillips that carried PSPX reporting marks with the majority being 11,000 gal. cars, some being 10,500 gal, and a very few being of lesser or different capacity. If any of these cars prove to be very close to either the Broadway or Atlas tank cars of this type my intent is to lobby them to produce some. Yeah, I know, go kick a hydrant, bit I've had some luck with both previously.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

mopacfirst
 

Phillips 66 had several refineries in Oklahoma, with the big one being in Bartlesville.  Other big ones that still exist are Borger, Texas (Panhandle) and Sweeny, Texas (Gulf Coast).  LPG could also have come from gas plants, of which there were several.  Basically, LPG is a light end from a refinery or a heavy end from a gas plant.

To get to the east, the cars would have primarily come through the St. Louis or Chicago gateways.

I came up with a photo of a PSPX car that matched the brass LP tank that (Overland?) made.  This was an earlier prototype than the Atlas car.  This photo may have been in the Kaminski tank car book.  I lettered mine without the herald.

Ron Merrick

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Tim O'Connor
 

Unfortunately correct decals for tank cars often don't exist. Champ HT-66 Philgas is for a GATC tank car.
And of course the lettering is far from correct even for that prototype. :-(

Tim O'

On 5/3/2019 3:24 PM, Lloyd Keyser wrote:
Philgas and Skelgas  were widely seen in the midwest. Several years ago I sent photos of these cars to Atlas. I received no reply. Champ decals brought out Philgas HT-66 and I think Skelgas. In stead they bring out company's I've never heard of. Wouldn't hurt to try again. I have a photo of Philgas with and without platform. I may have to take a car strip it , paint it black and decal it.
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Lloyd Keyser
 

Nicely done. What decals did you use.
Lloyd Keyser

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 3:20 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Unfortunately correct decals for tank cars often don't exist. Champ
HT-66 Philgas is for a GATC tank car.
And of course the lettering is far from correct even for that prototype. :-(

Tim O'



On 5/3/2019 3:24 PM, Lloyd Keyser wrote:
> Philgas and Skelgas  were widely seen in the midwest. Several years
> ago I sent photos of these cars to Atlas. I received no reply. Champ
> decals brought out Philgas HT-66 and I think Skelgas. In stead they
> bring out company's I've never heard of. Wouldn't hurt to try again. I
> have a photo of Philgas with and without platform. I may have to take
> a car strip it , paint it black and decal it.



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Tim O'Connor
 


Champ HT-66

On 5/3/2019 4:31 PM, Lloyd Keyser wrote:
Nicely done. What decals did you use.
Lloyd Keyser

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 3:20 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Unfortunately correct decals for tank cars often don't exist. Champ
HT-66 Philgas is for a GATC tank car.
And of course the lettering is far from correct even for that prototype. :-(

Tim O'


On 5/3/2019 3:24 PM, Lloyd Keyser wrote:
> Philgas and Skelgas  were widely seen in the midwest. Several years
> ago I sent photos of these cars to Atlas. I received no reply. Champ
> decals brought out Philgas HT-66 and I think Skelgas. In stead they
> bring out company's I've never heard of. Wouldn't hurt to try again. I
> have a photo of Philgas with and without platform. I may have to take
> a car strip it , paint it black and decal it.

*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Thomas Birkett
 

All: I managed the PPCo tank car fleet after the end of this group, but do know some of the history. The first refinery was at Borger, TX the same you Phillips started selling gasoline at retail stations 1927. The first station was in Wichita, KS but the gasoline came from Hamilton Plant, between Bartlesville and Dewey, OK. It was "natural gasoline" separated from raw natural gas, not crude oil. The acquisition of Independent Refining from Waite Phillips, one of the other brothers of Frank and LE Phillips brought refineries in Okmukgee, OK and Kansas City, KS into the fold. Sweeny, TX, and Woods Cross, It came later.
I may be able to answer further questions off line if any one has anything further. Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK.




Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>
Date: 5/3/19 2:59 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Phillips 66 had several refineries in Oklahoma, with the big one being in Bartlesville.  Other big ones that still exist are Borger, Texas (Panhandle) and Sweeny, Texas (Gulf Coast).  LPG could also have come from gas plants, of which there were several.  Basically, LPG is a light end from a refinery or a heavy end from a gas plant.

To get to the east, the cars would have primarily come through the St. Louis or Chicago gateways.

I came up with a photo of a PSPX car that matched the brass LP tank that (Overland?) made.  This was an earlier prototype than the Atlas car.  This photo may have been in the Kaminski tank car book.  I lettered mine without the herald.

Ron Merrick

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Jim Gates
 

According to GATC: A History of the General American Transportation Corporation, GATC purchased 2046 tank cars from Phillips Petroleum in 1945. I would guess this was a lease-back arrangement.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 5/3/19, Thomas Birkett <@tnbirke> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Friday, May 3, 2019, 5:29 PM

All: I managed the PPCo tank car fleet after the end of this group, but do know some of the history. The first refinery was at Borger, TX the same
you Phillips started selling gasoline at retail stations 1927. The first station was in Wichita, KS but the gasoline came from Hamilton Plant, between
Bartlesville and Dewey, OK. It was "natural gasoline" separated from raw natural gas, not crude oil. The acquisition of Independent Refining from Waite Phillips, one of the other brothers of Frank and LE Phillips brought refineries in Okmukgee, OK and Kansas City, KS into
the fold. Sweeny, TX, and Woods Cross, It came later.I may be able to answer further questions off line if any one has anything further. Tom Birkett,
Bartlesville, OK.

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Thomas Birkett
 

These were the oldest cars in the fleet, and I believe that many riveted shell cars were not leaded back but Ihave been u able to verify completely.
Tom Birkett, Bartlesville


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Jim Gates via Groups.Io" <jim.gates@...>
Date: 5/3/19 6:58 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

According to GATC:  A History of the General American Transportation Corporation, GATC purchased 2046 tank cars from Phillips Petroleum in 1945.  I would guess this was a lease-back arrangement.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/3/19, Thomas Birkett <tnbirke@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Friday, May 3, 2019, 5:29 PM

All: I managed the PPCo tank car fleet after the end of this group, but do know some of the history. The first refinery was at Borger, TX the same
you Phillips started selling gasoline at retail stations 1927. The first station was in Wichita, KS but the gasoline came from Hamilton Plant, between
Bartlesville and Dewey, OK. It was "natural gasoline" separated from raw natural gas, not crude oil. The acquisition of Independent Refining from Waite Phillips, one of the other brothers of Frank and LE Phillips brought refineries in Okmukgee, OK and Kansas City, KS into
the fold. Sweeny, TX, and Woods Cross, It came later.I may be able to answer further questions off line if any one has anything further. Tom Birkett,
Bartlesville, OK.




Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Doug's photo of PSPX 13206 could lead to a reasonable kitbash of the Athearn
"Chemical" tank car. Its underframe is nominally like the GATX Type 30. A
new, correctly sized valve casing (not an expansion dome) with Yarmouth or
Tangent GATX sill steps could complement the Philgas trade name from the
Champ decal set. You would have to find the PSPX Initials and number, if
not in the Champ set.

The ACF 13313 from 1943 is too long and too early for the Kadee car. To do
a kitbash would involve, lengthening the Intermountain Type 27 underframe
and finding a suitable tank. The Athearn one might work, but I haven't
measured that one.

Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2019 3:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.


Unfortunately correct decals for tank cars often don't exist. Champ
HT-66 Philgas is for a GATC tank car.
And of course the lettering is far from correct even for that prototype. :-(

Tim O'



On 5/3/2019 3:24 PM, Lloyd Keyser wrote:
Philgas and Skelgas  were widely seen in the midwest. Several years
ago I sent photos of these cars to Atlas. I received no reply. Champ
decals brought out Philgas HT-66 and I think Skelgas. In stead they
bring out company's I've never heard of. Wouldn't hurt to try again. I
have a photo of Philgas with and without platform. I may have to take
a car strip it , paint it black and decal it.


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Donald B. Valentine
 

Thank you once again Doug. What is shown in your 4th and 7th photos is exactly what I'm looking for. Tim seems to have most of it from his Champ decal set but I'd like to have the Phillips reporting marks rather than SHPX. Time to work on Atlas again as was
donme with the Cudahy car.

My best, Don Valentine

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

BillM
 

Curious question, Wade Phillips any relation to the NFL coach?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Thomas Birkett
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 6:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

 

All: I managed the PPCo tank car fleet after the end of this group, but do know some of the history. The first refinery was at Borger, TX the same you Phillips started selling gasoline at retail stations 1927. The first station was in Wichita, KS but the gasoline came from Hamilton Plant, between Bartlesville and Dewey, OK. It was "natural gasoline" separated from raw natural gas, not crude oil. The acquisition of Independent Refining from Waite Phillips, one of the other brothers of Frank and LE Phillips brought refineries in Okmukgee, OK and Kansas City, KS into the fold. Sweeny, TX, and Woods Cross, It came later.

I may be able to answer further questions off line if any one has anything further. Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK.

 

 

 

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>

Date: 5/3/19 2:59 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

 

Phillips 66 had several refineries in Oklahoma, with the big one being in Bartlesville.  Other big ones that still exist are Borger, Texas (Panhandle) and Sweeny, Texas (Gulf Coast).  LPG could also have come from gas plants, of which there were several.  Basically, LPG is a light end from a refinery or a heavy end from a gas plant.

To get to the east, the cars would have primarily come through the St. Louis or Chicago gateways.

I came up with a photo of a PSPX car that matched the brass LP tank that (Overland?) made.  This was an earlier prototype than the Atlas car.  This photo may have been in the Kaminski tank car book.  I lettered mine without the herald.

Ron Merrick

 

Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.

Kemal Mumcu
 

Perhaps the tangent insulated tank car could be a starting point for a LNG car as in this article featured years ago on the Resin Car Works blog.

http://resincarworks.com/RwyRev_Type22design.pdf

As to where the cars were going; well, north of Newport was basically Canada so these cars were going to industries there. I'd be interested in hearing otherwise but in the late 40s there wouldn't have been much production of LNG and LPG going on in Canada.

Colin Meikle

Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

jerryglow2
 

Acc to Sunshine's info they had both the  10'3" and 7'8" ones. Best I can tell the P2K is a 8'5" car numbered for the 7'8" ones and in white lettering.. Martin said that series had yellow lettering.  I have one and am going to redo it w/ yellow lettering. Guess whose decals I'm going to use?

Using contact cement

Eric Hansmann
 

People ask me about Barge cement. I recently used it to attach a couple of boxcar roofs so it's the latest post on my DesignBuildOp blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2019/05/04/contact-cement/



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

mopacfirst
 

I found a Mather stock car that I'd done when the kits were new, and it has wire grab irons, plus uncoupling levers, that I must have applied.  Then I looked at a couple kits that I bought on eBay recently, and noticed that a couple of them were time-saver.

So my question is, do the plastic grabs come out easily?  Probably no big deal, since I may need to ream the holes with a drill bit anyway.

Ron Merrick

Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

Tim O'Connor
 


Looks like 7-10 IH



On 5/4/2019 7:04 AM, jerryglow2 wrote:
Acc to Sunshine's info they had both the  10'3" and 7'8" ones. Best I can tell the P2K is a 8'5" car numbered for the 7'8" ones and in white lettering. I have one and am going to redo it w/ yellow lettering. Guess whose decals? 

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts