|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Doug's photo of PSPX 13206 could lead to a reasonable kitbash of the Athearn
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
"Chemical" tank car. Its underframe is nominally like the GATX Type 30. A new, correctly sized valve casing (not an expansion dome) with Yarmouth or Tangent GATX sill steps could complement the Philgas trade name from the Champ decal set. You would have to find the PSPX Initials and number, if not in the Champ set. The ACF 13313 from 1943 is too long and too early for the Kadee car. To do a kitbash would involve, lengthening the Intermountain Type 27 underframe and finding a suitable tank. The Athearn one might work, but I haven't measured that one. Steve Hile
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Friday, May 03, 2019 3:21 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars. Unfortunately correct decals for tank cars often don't exist. Champ HT-66 Philgas is for a GATC tank car. And of course the lettering is far from correct even for that prototype. :-( Tim O' On 5/3/2019 3:24 PM, Lloyd Keyser wrote: Philgas and Skelgas were widely seen in the midwest. Several years -- *Tim O'Connor* *Sterling, Massachusetts*
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
These were the oldest cars in the fleet, and I believe that many riveted shell cars were not leaded back but Ihave been u able to verify completely. Tom Birkett, Bartlesville Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: "Jim Gates via Groups.Io" <jim.gates@...> Date: 5/3/19 6:58 PM (GMT-06:00) To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars. Jim Gates -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/3/19, Thomas Birkett <tnbirke@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars. To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Date: Friday, May 3, 2019, 5:29 PM All: I managed the PPCo tank car fleet after the end of this group, but do know some of the history. The first refinery was at Borger, TX the same you Phillips started selling gasoline at retail stations 1927. The first station was in Wichita, KS but the gasoline came from Hamilton Plant, between Bartlesville and Dewey, OK. It was "natural gasoline" separated from raw natural gas, not crude oil. The acquisition of Independent Refining from Waite Phillips, one of the other brothers of Frank and LE Phillips brought refineries in Okmukgee, OK and Kansas City, KS into the fold. Sweeny, TX, and Woods Cross, It came later.I may be able to answer further questions off line if any one has anything further. Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK.
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Jim Gates
According to GATC: A History of the General American Transportation Corporation, GATC purchased 2046 tank cars from Phillips Petroleum in 1945. I would guess this was a lease-back arrangement.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Jim Gates --------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/3/19, Thomas Birkett <tnbirke@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars. To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Date: Friday, May 3, 2019, 5:29 PM All: I managed the PPCo tank car fleet after the end of this group, but do know some of the history. The first refinery was at Borger, TX the same you Phillips started selling gasoline at retail stations 1927. The first station was in Wichita, KS but the gasoline came from Hamilton Plant, between Bartlesville and Dewey, OK. It was "natural gasoline" separated from raw natural gas, not crude oil. The acquisition of Independent Refining from Waite Phillips, one of the other brothers of Frank and LE Phillips brought refineries in Okmukgee, OK and Kansas City, KS into the fold. Sweeny, TX, and Woods Cross, It came later.I may be able to answer further questions off line if any one has anything further. Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK.
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
All: I managed the PPCo tank car fleet after the end of this group, but do know some of the history. The first refinery was at Borger, TX the same you Phillips started selling gasoline at retail stations 1927. The first station was in Wichita, KS but the gasoline came from Hamilton Plant, between Bartlesville and Dewey, OK. It was "natural gasoline" separated from raw natural gas, not crude oil. The acquisition of Independent Refining from Waite Phillips, one of the other brothers of Frank and LE Phillips brought refineries in Okmukgee, OK and Kansas City, KS into the fold. Sweeny, TX, and Woods Cross, It came later. I may be able to answer further questions off line if any one has anything further. Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK. Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> Date: 5/3/19 2:59 PM (GMT-06:00) To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars. To get to the east, the cars would have primarily come through the St. Louis or Chicago gateways. I came up with a photo of a PSPX car that matched the brass LP tank that (Overland?) made. This was an earlier prototype than the Atlas car. This photo may have been in the Kaminski tank car book. I lettered mine without the herald. Ron Merrick
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Champ HT-66
On 5/3/2019 4:31 PM, Lloyd Keyser
wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Lloyd Keyser
Nicely done. What decals did you use. Lloyd Keyser
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 3:20 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Unfortunately correct decals for tank cars often don't exist. Champ HT-66 Philgas is for a GATC tank car.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
And of course the lettering is far from correct even for that prototype. :-( Tim O'
On 5/3/2019 3:24 PM, Lloyd Keyser wrote:
Philgas and Skelgas were widely seen in the midwest. Several years ago I sent photos of these cars to Atlas. I received no reply. Champ decals brought out Philgas HT-66 and I think Skelgas. In stead they bring out company's I've never heard of. Wouldn't hurt to try again. I have a photo of Philgas with and without platform. I may have to take a car strip it , paint it black and decal it. --
*Tim O'Connor* *Sterling, Massachusetts*
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
mopacfirst
Phillips 66 had several refineries in Oklahoma, with the big one being in Bartlesville. Other big ones that still exist are Borger, Texas (Panhandle) and Sweeny, Texas (Gulf Coast). LPG could also have come from gas plants, of which there were several. Basically, LPG is a light end from a refinery or a heavy end from a gas plant.
To get to the east, the cars would have primarily come through the St. Louis or Chicago gateways. I came up with a photo of a PSPX car that matched the brass LP tank that (Overland?) made. This was an earlier prototype than the Atlas car. This photo may have been in the Kaminski tank car book. I lettered mine without the herald. Ron Merrick
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Don a quick google search reveals https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=PH004 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_Petroleum_Company Phillips was based in Bartlesville Oklahoma, started in 1917. By 1925 it was the largest producer of natural gas liquids.
The founders had roots in Iowa https://data.desmoinesregister.com/famous-iowans/le-and-frank-phillips
Attached are photos I have of Phillips Petroleum cars, etc. Some of the photos came from the Barriger Library Collection. The company leased tankcars from Shippers.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 1:08 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Hi folks,
During my late 1940's modeling period Phillips Petroleum cars were seen quite often on the trackage of the former Connecticut & Passumpsic Rivers RR between white River Junction & Newport, Vermont. In that period the track north of Wells River, roughly the half way point, was owned by the CPR which bought it in 1946 after leasing it since 1926, while that south of Wells River was by the Boston & Maine. It was also jointly operated with both railroads providing equipment and crews. Phil Hastings took photos in this area often, being raised in Bradford on the B&M section of the line. Over the years Phil provided me with a number of photos of operations in the area, a couple of which show the Phillips Petroleum cars. All of them appear to have been for LNG or LPG and of the ICC 105A300W or 104A types. I know #15001 was an 11,000 gal. car of Type 104A and believe it was originally constructed in Sept. 1927. Most of these cars were painted completely black with white lettering and a large "Philgas" painted on the right end of the tank. Does anyone have any further information on these cars, especially where they were coming from or going to? There were over 600 at least similar cars owned or leased by Phillips that carried PSPX reporting marks with the majority being 11,000 gal. cars, some being 10,500 gal, and a very few being of lesser or different capacity. If any of these cars prove to be very close to either the Broadway or Atlas tank cars of this type my intent is to lobby them to produce some. Yeah, I know, go kick a hydrant, bit I've had some luck with both previously.
Cordially, Don Valentine
|
|
|
|
Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box
mopacfirst
Got it.
Ron Merrick
|
|
|
|
SAL's B-3/4/5 underframes
rwilson1056
were all 3 classes set up the same? single cross-bearer centered under the door? looks like 4's and 5's were at least
roger wilson - modeling Tallahassee Sub May/June 1951
|
|
|
|
Re: Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Lloyd Keyser
Philgas and Skelgas were widely seen in the midwest. Several years ago I sent photos of these cars to Atlas. I received no reply. Champ decals brought out Philgas HT-66 and I think Skelgas. In stead they bring out company's I've never heard of. Wouldn't hurt to try again. I have a photo of Philgas with and without platform. I may have to take a car strip it , paint it black and decal it.
|
|
|
|
Phillips Petroleum LNG and PPG gas tank cars.
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
Hi folks, During my late 1940's modeling period Phillips Petroleum cars were seen quite often on the trackage of the former Connecticut & Passumpsic Rivers RR between white River Junction & Newport, Vermont. In that period the track north of Wells River, roughly the half way point, was owned by the CPR which bought it in 1946 after leasing it since 1926, while that south of Wells River was by the Boston & Maine. It was also jointly operated with both railroads providing equipment and crews. Phil Hastings took photos in this area often, being raised in Bradford on the B&M section of the line. Over the years Phil provided me with a number of photos of operations in the area, a couple of which show the Phillips Petroleum cars. All of them appear to have been for LNG or LPG and of the ICC 105A300W or 104A types. I know #15001 was an 11,000 gal. car of Type 104A and believe it was originally constructed in Sept. 1927. Most of these cars were painted completely black with white lettering and a large "Philgas" painted on the right end of the tank. Does anyone have any further information on these cars, especially where they were coming from or going to? There were over 600 at least similar cars owned or leased by Phillips that carried PSPX reporting marks with the majority being 11,000 gal. cars, some being 10,500 gal, and a very few being of lesser or different capacity. If any of these cars prove to be very close to either the Broadway or Atlas tank cars of this type my intent is to lobby them to produce some. Yeah, I know, go kick a hydrant, bit I've had some luck with both previously. Cordially, Don Valentine
|
|
|
|
Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Ron,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
See Henry Maywald's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS Volume 7, page 37 for a color photo of an MRS steel car in green. Yours Aye, Garth Groff
On 5/2/19 9:23 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
One last question re the prototype Mather cars -- any suggestions as to the green color?
|
|
|
|
Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box
mopacfirst
One last question re the prototype Mather cars -- any suggestions as to the green color?
Probably greener than Pullman green. Maybe like the darker NP pine tree green? Or REA green? Ron Merrick
|
|
|
|
Sunshine Mather boxcars
mopacfirst
Starting a new thread.
Now I'm the proud owner of a Sunshine 7.3 kit for the short (7'-8") Mather box. There is a bundle of narrow styrene strip taped to the bottom of the box, which one uses to form the two sides of the channel section diagonal bracing. On top of which, the thin flash at the edges of each casting more or less crumbled off as I was unpacking this kit. Ain't gonna happen. But, and this is the curse of those who have lots of inventory, turns out I already had a Sunshine kit 103.7, which has beautiful castings with plenty of undercut (underframe almost one piece, no gluing all those crossbearers in place). And the roof is one piece. This is the 10'-3" IH car, which lasted longer in service than the short ones and the one that was more appropriate to my usage anyway. So, I learned something, and for that I'm not ungrateful. I do still have a few of the first Sunshine kits, either ones I bought new or ones I picked up recently. Some, like the steel rebuilds, I'm going to build anyway. I've already developed a technique for using Branchline roofs or ends or other styrene parts in place of some of the Sunshine components, mostly just because the plastic parts are easier to work with. Doing this may, in some cases, make the difference between making it worthwhile to invest my time in building it, or not. Ron Merrick
|
|
|
|
Throwback Thursday: MDC Plug Door Reefer, Model Railroader, October 1959
Benjamin Hom
MDC Plug Door Reefer ad, Model Railroader, October 1959. "Metal's Better." Ben Hom
|
|
|
|
Re: IC loadings in Maroa, IL and others, 1920
Wow, they got things done in those days! A box car arrives with 55 tons of coal, is unloaded
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
and cleaned, and reloaded and departs in just 24 hours with a load of corn! :-)
On 5/2/2019 11:11 AM, Matt Smith wrote:
The folks that model "early" times need some love this morning. --
*Tim O'Connor* *Sterling, Massachusetts*
|
|
|
|
Re: New Walthers USRA based cars
It is a real shame because at one time they did, or at least attempted. That is one reason they purchased the PK2 line from Lifelike. Obviously folks have retired who used to be concerned. The aggravating thing is the “toy” train crowd doesn’t care as long as it has their railroad name on the car. So why can’t Walthers do a prototypically accurate car and then plaster it with bogus names for those who will purchase and at least allow those who do care to get an accurate car? Cutting the die is about the same.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of bill stanton
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2019 11:03 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Walthers USRA based cars
fwiw i once asked my local hobby shop owner to query the walther's rep about why they were so indifferent to prototype accuracy, even with easy stuff like car numbers.
the response was that walther's doesn't believe those who would buy their cars care at all about such things.
i have come to just assume walthers is going to be inaccurate and don't give their stuff a second look...(i really don't understand their outlook...just too lazy to do the research or don't think its worth the expense...i'm sure they are losing a lot of business and its a marvel to me that they don't know that!) just sayin'...
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
I note that they don't actually call their single-sheathed car a USRA, which is good because of course it isn't, much more like the ARA design, though pretty poorly rendered. In looking at these, and thinking how far we have (mostly) come in model freight cars, I'm just glad Richard Hendrickson isn't here to see these Walthers things.
|
|
|
|
Re: New Walthers USRA based cars
bill stanton
fwiw i once asked my local hobby shop owner to query the walther's rep about why they were so indifferent to prototype accuracy, even with easy stuff like car numbers.
the response was that walther's doesn't believe those who would buy their cars care at all about such things.
i have come to just assume walthers is going to be inaccurate and don't give their stuff a second look...(i really don't understand their outlook...just too lazy to do the research or don't think its worth the expense...i'm sure they are losing a lot of business
and its a marvel to me that they don't know that!) just sayin'...
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 6:58 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Walthers USRA based cars I note that they don't actually call their single-sheathed car a USRA, which is good because of course it isn't, much more like the ARA design, though pretty poorly rendered. In looking at these, and thinking how far we
have (mostly) come in model freight cars, I'm just glad Richard Hendrickson isn't here to see these Walthers things.
Tony Thompson
|
|
|